Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
White People KNOW Very Well ONE Thing... (Original Post) kpete Nov 2021 OP
CRT? kentuck Nov 2021 #1
No. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 #3
Is this what "who" means by CRT? Caliman73 Nov 2021 #16
K&R! chowder66 Nov 2021 #2
I was 16 when I checked James Baldwin's book, Go Tell It On The Mountain, I had to read it 3 times ShazamIam Nov 2021 #4
+1 Auggie Nov 2021 #6
+ 2. n/t iluvtennis Nov 2021 #13
You should also check out Black Reconstruction Solomon Nov 2021 #7
It is odd that I have read about W.E.B. DuBois but haven't read his own work. I will. ShazamIam Nov 2021 #17
The scholarship is stunning. He also was Solomon Nov 2021 #18
Thanks, for the push to read his work. ShazamIam Nov 2021 #22
PhD in history, and then became a sociologist. soldierant Nov 2021 #42
Thank You for posting this Truth. Tommymac Nov 2021 #19
I was raised in the segregated south in the 40's and 50's, and read Nobody Knows My Name spike jones Nov 2021 #20
Yes. It is why I had to read the book three times, I knew after the first read I had to read again ShazamIam Nov 2021 #24
Well then who let them get away with it. rkleinberger Nov 2021 #28
The entire inthewind21 Nov 2021 #37
It's not real to people unless they see it soldierant Nov 2021 #43
Excellent points. This apathy is wnylib Nov 2021 #46
Well stated. MLK recognized this in radius777 Nov 2021 #50
James Baldwin was way ahead of his time. FM123 Nov 2021 #5
I intend to remember that quote. Thanks. 70sEraVet Nov 2021 #8
Me too. n/t iluvtennis Nov 2021 #14
This needs to be a banner on the Front page to combat the many 'Nothing Can be done' memes. Tommymac Nov 2021 #23
Amen Joinfortmill Nov 2021 #27
Whoa! Quote of the Decade!!! calimary Nov 2021 #25
so true llashram Nov 2021 #9
K & R mountain grammy Nov 2021 #10
True, true, true, and true again. I hate this statement, but I believe it's true. nt Biophilic Nov 2021 #11
Perhaps future generations would be more accepting if they studied more Baldwin Lonestarblue Nov 2021 #12
In Some Part RobinA Nov 2021 #38
I'm sure you are correct, soldierant Nov 2021 #44
K&R Solly Mack Nov 2021 #15
It's so sad that this still rings true. Kablooie Nov 2021 #21
Love this guy. Joinfortmill Nov 2021 #26
I think every person needs to do a DNA test cate94 Nov 2021 #29
Black friend tested 24% Nordic dna. So when cbabe Nov 2021 #33
I would also recommend the book, Black Like Me .. SarcasticSatyr Nov 2021 #30
I read that in 8th grade while on vacation twodogsbarking Nov 2021 #39
One of the best summations of this subject was said, believe it or not... BobTheSubgenius Nov 2021 #31
I think at some level this q thing with the Kennedy's Tikki Nov 2021 #32
KnR Hekate Nov 2021 #34
Link to interview List left Nov 2021 #35
thanks very much CatWoman Nov 2021 #36
Seriously, does that first sentence resonate personally with anyone here? Hortensis Nov 2021 #40
It's not clear to me what you're saying. Are you saying that it's "ridiculous" that Baldwin WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 #41
Not universal, because nothing is ... but defintely, like soldierant Nov 2021 #45
:) Forget the "American public:" you. Do you go around Hortensis Nov 2021 #47
Well, no. But, exactly because i don't, I am able to pick it u in other white people, soldierant Nov 2021 #53
:) Always not ourselves, but now, others! Hortensis Nov 2021 #54
Oh, I used to feel it. soldierant Nov 2021 #55
But you're still white? (Right? You sound white.) Hortensis Nov 2021 #58
Who experiences *any* emotion like that? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2021 #56
*Some* white people The Mouth Nov 2021 #48
James Baldwin truth telling. nt oasis Nov 2021 #49
And here I thought I might actually get through one of these without the sadly obligatory... Iggo Nov 2021 #51
White people BLM4ever Nov 2021 #52
They can be unfucked. Iggo Nov 2021 #57
Reminds me of the Japanese woman ... Straw Man Nov 2021 #59

Caliman73

(11,767 posts)
16. Is this what "who" means by CRT?
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:02 PM
Nov 2021

If you are asking what the people who are crying about CRT in schools mean by CRT, then you need to look no further than what Christopher Rufo has been saying. He is the man that has catapulted CRT in to the mainstream. His goal is to associate everything that White people fear about the topic of race and racial justice into CRT in order to poison the discussion about those issues.

ShazamIam

(2,755 posts)
4. I was 16 when I checked James Baldwin's book, Go Tell It On The Mountain, I had to read it 3 times
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 10:30 AM
Nov 2021

because it was the first book that really told me, informed me, about being AA in the U.S. And though I had already read, The Autobiography of Malcom X, and I had thought Malcom had informed me. I was wrong. Malcom is still a favorite of mine, but James Baldwin has, in my library of information, made the message more real to me than, or more complete. Toni Morrison belongs in this rare group that squeezes comprehension of the terrible and race backed crimes unleashed in a constant denial by nearly all of us.

Carefully, deliberately, cruelly especially following the advances of the 60s, the conservative White leadership in this nation struck back so hard they have now delivered us back to the Jim Crow era, violence included and mostly carried out by law enforcement, official violent oppression and denial.

Solomon

(12,500 posts)
7. You should also check out Black Reconstruction
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 11:05 AM
Nov 2021

by W E B DuBois. Eye opening and mind blowing.

Solomon

(12,500 posts)
18. The scholarship is stunning. He also was
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:18 PM
Nov 2021

one of the first to identify the double conciousness that black people have.

soldierant

(8,151 posts)
42. PhD in history, and then became a sociologist.
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 07:17 PM
Nov 2021

And, sorry, I've been looking for over half an hour, and finally found it - the National Museum of African American History and Culture (part of the Smithsonian) will be streaming

"Historically Speaking: Black Reconstruction -- A Conversation Among Eric Foner, Henry Louis Gates & Kevin Young"

on Wednesday, December 8, from 7 to 8 pm Eastern. It's free, but you need to register. The link I attached to its title will take you to a page where you can do that.

Brief description: NMAAHC Andrew W. Mellon Director Kevin Young moderates a discussion with prominent historians Eric Foner and Henry Louis Gates editors of the Library of America’s reissue of W.E.B. Dubois’ groundbreaking assessment of the impact of Reconstruction on America’s post-civil war black community.

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
19. Thank You for posting this Truth.
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:21 PM
Nov 2021
Carefully, deliberately, cruelly especially following the advances of the 60s, the conservative White leadership in this nation struck back so hard they have now delivered us back to the Jim Crow era, violence included and mostly carried out by law enforcement, official violent oppression and denial.


spike jones

(1,817 posts)
20. I was raised in the segregated south in the 40's and 50's, and read Nobody Knows My Name
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:23 PM
Nov 2021

when I was 16 years old, then The Fire Next Time and others. Baldwin’s writings showed me the side of that southern culture that segregation had kept from me and it changed my life. During the pandemic isolation, I re-read his books that I have on my shelves, and they are still powerful.

ShazamIam

(2,755 posts)
24. Yes. It is why I had to read the book three times, I knew after the first read I had to read again
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:33 PM
Nov 2021

again and that led to a third reading and it burned right into my consciousness.

rkleinberger

(155 posts)
28. Well then who let them get away with it.
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:48 PM
Nov 2021

Did the majority just sit back and be apathetic to their attacks? Yes. So Dems and progressives have much to blame here as well. It seems the general Progressive wing or those aligned with non-conservative values complain but don't fight at the level of right wing fascists. If you have strong counter opposition then they cannot rise. This is evident from 1930s Germany where the opposition to the Nazis was weak and allowed them to rise

 

inthewind21

(4,616 posts)
37. The entire
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 02:48 PM
Nov 2021

White population did that's who. I will say it makes me happy to see young white people at the BLM protests. However, the majority of the white population just sits back, wrings their hands but never steps up to the plate to take a stance one way or the other. It's not enough to complain, voice your concern but then sit back and watch it all happen. Why is Aubery's family sitting with ONLY black people in that court room? As does the families of the many other trials of this nature. Is there not a single white person in the entire state of Georgia that can see their plight clearly? Is there not a white celebrity that can lend their voice? Is there not a rich white person who can fund them? It's not a closed courtroom. W. T. A. F!

I am livid with the congress, AND the White House. Doing what's always been done will get nowhere and NOTHING will change. And before anyone wants to chime in and say, oh oh oh but we have to keep the majority. NEWSFLASH, we have the numbers (barely) but we DO NOT have control. Once again the MINORITY is allowed to keep control. THAT is why NOTHING ever changes. And it never will. Read the book The New Jim Crow. It's explains beautifully how politicians have pitted the poor white population (the majority of which are republican voters) against the "elite liberals" who want to keep them down but also against all minorities, immigrants, anyone who's "not like you" who want to take what little you have away.

soldierant

(8,151 posts)
43. It's not real to people unless they see it
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 07:22 PM
Nov 2021

and the rightwing is very, very good at kkeping their evil deeds in the dark.

I'm one of the few who goes looking for racism - and I find it easily. But the number of people who don't look and do not see - my God. It is horrifying.

wnylib

(25,183 posts)
46. Excellent points. This apathy is
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 09:35 PM
Nov 2021

what allows fascism to develop.

I heard numerous people and a few church sermons rail against the migrant detention centers and children in cages, but saw very few people unifying in demonstrations to demand change or doing physical intervention against round ups.

I was on a local racial justice committee for a nationally known organization. It was composed of several white women and their goal was to find a way to enhance their organization's presence among minorities. I dropped out. It was all talk and no action. The committee disbanded just before the pandemic. Months later, I got an e-mail from a member of the organization's local board informing me that a new director was in charge and a new committee was being formed. I was asked to sign a petition against racism. I did not respond.

Why bother? It was the same ol' same ol'. Signing petitions is a feel good exercise that accomplishes nothing. The signers feel good about themselves for "taking a stand" but their signature does nothing to improve race relations or end systemic racism. Signing petitions is not an action against racism. It's a substitute for action.

radius777

(3,817 posts)
50. Well stated. MLK recognized this in
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 10:43 PM
Nov 2021

one of his famous speeches where he identified the 'white moderate who is more devoted to order than justice' as an even bigger threat than the KKK.

The white BLM protesters killed by Rittenhouse, as flawed as they may have been, basically gave their lives fighting for civil rights in a way that your more 'respectable' white does not, who mainly tends to sit back and wag their fingers at the victims and make excuses for the likes of Rittenhouse.

PoC are highly dissatisfied with Biden/Dems failure to throw down the gauntlet on voting rights. Biden only won because of PoC, especially black voters in urban areas like Philly, Milwaukee, Detroit, Atlanta etc. Women are also losing their right to choose. Without women where would Dems be, would never win any swing districts.

FM123

(10,166 posts)
5. James Baldwin was way ahead of his time.
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 10:31 AM
Nov 2021

“Not everything that is faced can be changed. But nothing can be changed until it is faced.” He said this in 1962.

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
23. This needs to be a banner on the Front page to combat the many 'Nothing Can be done' memes.
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:30 PM
Nov 2021

What one does matters.

I refuse to succumb to the view of all those lamenting all the evil going on in the country and the world; their only actions ringing their hands and moaning doom and gloom.

It is up to all of The People to rise above the noise and do the difficult work of taking back Our Country from all those hell bent on making it a racist authoritarian paradise.

"Almost impossible to do" cry the weak of heart.

I say "The impossible just takes a bit more hard work, a bit more courage and tenacity to achieve."

Let's get to work.




calimary

(85,086 posts)
25. Whoa! Quote of the Decade!!!
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:36 PM
Nov 2021

I am SOOOO using that in one of our upcoming call to Action emails.

What an amazing quote! From an equally amazing thinker!

Lonestarblue

(12,192 posts)
12. Perhaps future generations would be more accepting if they studied more Baldwin
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 11:30 AM
Nov 2021

in high school and fewer works of long-dead white guys like Jonathan Edwards or at least reducing the emphasis on the writers of the 1800s like Emerson, Poe, and Hawthorne. There’s value in studying their writings, but I believe students of today see little to relate to in their own lives.

RobinA

(10,231 posts)
38. In Some Part
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 03:00 PM
Nov 2021

I believe it depends on the teacher whether they see any relevance in Hawthorne, Emerson OR Baldwin.

Kablooie

(18,826 posts)
21. It's so sad that this still rings true.
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:23 PM
Nov 2021

We should be past this but seem farther away from resolution than ever.

cate94

(2,922 posts)
29. I think every person needs to do a DNA test
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:48 PM
Nov 2021

At which point they will discover that we all came out of Africa. Also, if you are white, you probably have more Neanderthal blood than you would like to believe.

I say this as a very white person, with more Neanderthal DNA than most. POC’s are more human than I am. That, of course, doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else. We all came from the same place.

And I do know, I would not like to be Black here. As a gay person, I know discrimination, but never as much as POC deal with daily. It is really sickening.

cbabe

(4,518 posts)
33. Black friend tested 24% Nordic dna. So when
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 01:28 PM
Nov 2021

they say ‘we need more people from Norway’…

SarcasticSatyr

(1,302 posts)
30. I would also recommend the book, Black Like Me ..
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 12:52 PM
Nov 2021

by John Howard Griffin, published in 1961.

twodogsbarking

(12,499 posts)
39. I read that in 8th grade while on vacation
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 03:44 PM
Nov 2021

in Atlantic City with my parents, circa 1965. Still remember.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,847 posts)
31. One of the best summations of this subject was said, believe it or not...
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 01:05 PM
Nov 2021

....by Chris Rock. In one of his comedy specials, he tells the audience "There ain't a white man in this room that would change places with me. None of you. None of you would change places with me, and I'm rich!"

Tikki

(14,800 posts)
32. I think at some level this q thing with the Kennedy's
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 01:05 PM
Nov 2021

is a mix of guilt and officiousness...immaturity and selfishness.

Tikki

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
40. Seriously, does that first sentence resonate personally with anyone here?
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 03:57 PM
Nov 2021

I'm not saying there isn't someone, but "it seems to me" to be one of those things that can't resonate with most because for them they're not true, even for some to the point of being ridiculous. The usual problem for those with reputations as intellectual thinkers: how does one express an opinion like that about an entire race without sounding racist?

Such a difficult thing to carry off, and his "it seems to me" has always sounded to me like he was hedging a rhetorical bet in case his picture didn't go over as well as he hoped.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,282 posts)
41. It's not clear to me what you're saying. Are you saying that it's "ridiculous" that Baldwin
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 04:05 PM
Nov 2021

believes "white people go around ... with a very carefully suppressed terror of Black people"?

"it seems to me" has always sounded to me like he was hedging a rhetorical bet in case his notion didn't go over as well as he hoped.
With whom? White people?

soldierant

(8,151 posts)
45. Not universal, because nothing is ... but defintely, like
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 07:32 PM
Nov 2021

the intelligence of the American public, something no one ever went broke underestimating/

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
47. :) Forget the "American public:" you. Do you go around
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 09:39 PM
Nov 2021

perpetually with a "tremendous sense of uneasiness" about what black people are thinking of you because of this enormous load of personal guilt that's always consuming you? Or at least any time you spot a dark skin on the street? The guilt washes over you, the original sin of your white skin sickens you, and you unconsciously brace yourself against your fear that he will turn and see you, and you will have to imagine your despicable self in his eyes?

I'm afraid I have a literal mind. It doesn't dress up this extremely ugly claim of what it is to be a white person, all white people, the white race, as anything more than it is. Or speaking of underestimating, how insulting its depiction of all black people is. I also have a much more optimistic outlook that many people are and have always been decent enough to pull us all through eventually. I that believe in future, probably not all that far ahead as culture continues to change so fast, most of the current hateful off-leash acting out will not be considered valid intellectually or acceptable morally.

soldierant

(8,151 posts)
53. Well, no. But, exactly because i don't, I am able to pick it u in other white people,
Wed Nov 24, 2021, 06:16 PM
Nov 2021

whenever the conversation gets too close. And believe me, I do pick it up. A lot. Including in people I otherwise like, respect, and even love.

I don't have he slightest doubt that people of color can pick it up too - actually a lot better than I, because they don't need for the conversation to get close - they are the tpoic.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
54. :) Always not ourselves, but now, others!
Wed Nov 24, 2021, 06:26 PM
Nov 2021

Mr. Baldwin seemingly would not have excused you, but I do. Wonder if the irony of his quote below ever occured to him. I hope so for his sake. I know I really would fear the thought that my own foolishnesses might be with me right to the end.

It is so simple a fact and one that is so hard, apparently, to grasp: Whoever debases others is debasing himself.

soldierant

(8,151 posts)
55. Oh, I used to feel it.
Wed Nov 24, 2021, 06:35 PM
Nov 2021

It tool many years of education, acction,, and affirmation before I got to this point.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
58. But you're still white? (Right? You sound white.)
Wed Nov 24, 2021, 07:11 PM
Nov 2021

I don't think you get what he was saying. I think the very fact that you believe his condemnation (and the immense, crushing, eternal white guilt it refers to) applies to the rest of the white race but no longer to you is proof that it does.

Circular reasoning, yes, and as valid now as it was then... (It's actually become wildly popular now, though as a path to truth it's still a tightly closed circle.)

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
56. Who experiences *any* emotion like that?
Wed Nov 24, 2021, 06:37 PM
Nov 2021

Emotional reactions are largely unconscious. Most people have to be trained, be it through analysis or meditation, to really understand why they feel the things they feel.

I don't think Baldwin is saying white people walk around consciously aware of the anxiety caused by them being a part of a system they know, deep down, is unjust. That's what makes implicit racism so insidious.

The Mouth

(3,320 posts)
48. *Some* white people
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 10:13 PM
Nov 2021

I've never had a Black person lay me off, lay off 100's of people, close down a business.

I've never had a Black person trying to scam me and my family after my dad died

I've never had a Black cop terrify the shit out of me when I was pulled over

I've never heard of a Black person starting a war for oil.

I sure as the fuck have experienced white people doing all that.

The only shit I've ever gotten from Black people was when I sucked ass at playing Chicago blues (cause I was a white rock kid).

If I get pulled over by the cops, or go for a job interview, or have some other kind of important interaction, I've no reason to be uneasy.

I have no doubt that the percentage of assholes, sociopaths, and creeps is exactly the same regardless of skin colour, but my experiences have let me to trust other white folks no more than Blacks, Latinos, or Asians.

You know who the people who are 'uneasy' around black people? The white folks who have never had to pull their own weight, or compete equally, who think they get a pass but know they aren't up to snuff.

Just My observation.

Iggo

(48,688 posts)
51. And here I thought I might actually get through one of these without the sadly obligatory...
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 11:41 PM
Nov 2021

…Not All White People.

But no…

Iggo

(48,688 posts)
57. They can be unfucked.
Wed Nov 24, 2021, 06:44 PM
Nov 2021

But they gotta wanna be.

And they can’t just want it. They have to work at it.

(And by they, I mean I.)

Straw Man

(6,827 posts)
59. Reminds me of the Japanese woman ...
Wed Nov 24, 2021, 07:18 PM
Nov 2021

... who was asked why there's such friction between Japanese and Koreans.

"We did a lot of bad things to them in the war," she said, "and they still remember that. So we hate them."

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»White People KNOW Very We...