Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hunter

(40,807 posts)
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 04:03 PM Sep 2023

AI reality: FedEx is automating the kind of work I used to do for very good money.

The first time I made a hundred dollars in a day was loading trucks with random sized stuff.

Here's a machine doing that kind of work:



I wasn't even any kind of full time employee, just a part-timer who could set his own schedule. I was also going to school. I was paid union wages even though I wasn't formally union. (Hollywood works the same way if you find yourself, for example, in a one-off reality show gig.)

I'd get a call a five o'clock in the morning that the place I was working for needed more hands to unload load or unload trucks and I could say "yes" or "no." Me answering "no" didn't seem to impact the number of calls I got at all, for the most part because I was reliably available on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. If I got the call on half those days I was happy.

That's also how I flunked an organic chemistry class. I got in the habit of ditching classes to work. Unfortunately o-chem is not the kind of class you can ditch and expect to pass.

Ah, those were the days when gasoline for my little car was free and I could pay my monthly rent with a few days work...

My work then was not replaced by AI.

What happened is that unions got broken and people who could do this work were paid less and less.

Fuck you Ronald Reagan and your "revolution."

Twenty years after I'd moved on from this kind of work the people who were still doing it were paid no more than I was even as inflation ate away at their purchasing power and their working conditions became a lot more restrictive. They no longer had any power to say "no" or demand comfortable living wages.




38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
AI reality: FedEx is automating the kind of work I used to do for very good money. (Original Post) hunter Sep 2023 OP
A lot of people are going to find that happening including those with lofty jobs thinking RKP5637 Sep 2023 #1
Society is not being given time to figure it out. Look at all that's happened just highplainsdem Sep 2023 #7
All excellent points! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2023 #14
They have been given time edisdead Sep 2023 #23
AI will try to end all union jobs. It will be an adjunct assist in medicine, but I have doubts hlthe2b Sep 2023 #2
I have been an advertising copywriter Demobrat Sep 2023 #3
Writing and transcribing schlock was always my mom's primary income. hunter Sep 2023 #10
UBI now. Universal Basic Income. sarcasmo Sep 2023 #4
K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2023 #5
That's the only way this is going to work. hunter Sep 2023 #13
It is unfortunately going to be a rough road to the most logical outcome. joshcryer Sep 2023 #20
Who would pay for this? former9thward Sep 2023 #24
The question is how to fund that EX500rider Sep 2023 #15
Maybe taxing billionaires at more than 3%. rubbersole Sep 2023 #21
You could take every penny from billionaires and there would not be money for it. former9thward Sep 2023 #25
Depending on how much you give each person don't think that is enough EX500rider Sep 2023 #26
"Universal" implies everyone MichMan Oct 2023 #33
So make the math work pinkstarburst Sep 2023 #28
Can you recheck your math... DiamondShark Oct 2023 #37
15% tax on every imported item. rubbersole Sep 2023 #27
Well lets do the rough math EX500rider Oct 2023 #31
What would happen to an honest politician... rubbersole Oct 2023 #32
1975 federal tax rates as you suggest MichMan Oct 2023 #35
UBI is the only thing I've heard... rubbersole Oct 2023 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Oct 2023 #34
Lots of people work now who don't have to. Mariana Sep 2023 #29
Bingo we have a winner n/t. airplaneman Sep 2023 #22
Fasten you seat belt and tighten the chin strap on your crash helmet. magicarpet Sep 2023 #6
Is that "AI" or is it just better robotics? tinrobot Sep 2023 #8
Exactly. Plus the jobs designing, programming, and maintaining robots are good jobs. Silent Type Sep 2023 #9
I can do that kind of work. hunter Sep 2023 #11
Jobs you don't take home with you Demobrat Sep 2023 #12
Those were my favorite jobs in retrospect. hunter Sep 2023 #17
Exactly Rebl2 Sep 2023 #30
They did Rebl2 Sep 2023 #16
Aliens, not robots..... getagrip_already Sep 2023 #18
We need to give lots more money to job creators IronLionZion Sep 2023 #19
Yeah robots will be taking over 80% of fast food, auto worker jobs in 5 yrs Shanti Shanti Shanti Oct 2023 #36

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
1. A lot of people are going to find that happening including those with lofty jobs thinking
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 04:06 PM
Sep 2023

they are immune. Society really needs to figure out how this will be handled.

highplainsdem

(62,822 posts)
7. Society is not being given time to figure it out. Look at all that's happened just
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 04:47 PM
Sep 2023

since ChatGPT was released.

Part of the rush is a land grab: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218315992

And part of it is a deliberate attempt to get AI used so widely, so quickly, that it will seem so necessary to commerce that attempts to regulate it will fail, and so will lawsuits over the vast theft of intellectual property that generative AI models have been trained on.

edisdead

(3,396 posts)
23. They have been given time
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 06:46 PM
Sep 2023

This has been happening since the 80’s with auto workers and even before with other machines.

People need to vote better.

hlthe2b

(114,403 posts)
2. AI will try to end all union jobs. It will be an adjunct assist in medicine, but I have doubts
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 04:10 PM
Sep 2023

how well the extremes will work out. From my own and colleagues' standpoints, I can't tell you how often clinical intuition makes a damned big difference--even if there is not confirmatory lab, scans, or other data to prove it. And especially on an emergent basis. That may also be the case in law, though again, it will be an adjunct assist.

I absolutely hope there are limits on it--particularly in informational uses, publishing, and journalism.

And, customer service is already so horrendous, it is horrible to think about it getting worse, but it might with an AI assist. That might be the straw that breaks the "public's" back.

Demobrat

(10,307 posts)
3. I have been an advertising copywriter
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 04:17 PM
Sep 2023

since the eighties. It’s been a decent living doing work I enjoy. I’m a “creative”. My job is to come up with the right words to communicate a benefit. My job is being replaced by AI.

Nobody is safe.

hunter

(40,807 posts)
10. Writing and transcribing schlock was always my mom's primary income.
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 05:02 PM
Sep 2023

She was not a happy person in most of her working life.

Gardening and early childhood development were her passions. She was certified at the master's level in both.

Neither aptitude ever paid as well as the "creative" schlock.

I grew up in a family where my parents were both artists with day jobs.

They achieved full time artist status when my dad retired with a good union pension.

hunter

(40,807 posts)
13. That's the only way this is going to work.
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 05:38 PM
Sep 2023

Here's your healthy diet, here's your safe comfortable housing, here's your medical care.

You are encouraged to build whatever utopia you imagine from there.

joshcryer

(62,536 posts)
20. It is unfortunately going to be a rough road to the most logical outcome.
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 06:35 PM
Sep 2023

Depaving the cities is going to be the most controversial thing we do.

EX500rider

(12,677 posts)
15. The question is how to fund that
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 05:55 PM
Sep 2023

And how to get people to be productive if they don't have to be

EX500rider

(12,677 posts)
26. Depending on how much you give each person don't think that is enough
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 07:03 PM
Sep 2023

Does every person get it or just adults and then just adults with low income, and how low because lots would quit their jobs to meet to meet the requirement.

Don't think the math will work in a country of 332 million, 250 million are adults.

250 million X's even $30,000 is LOT of $ every year, like over 7 trillion dollars.

pinkstarburst

(2,073 posts)
28. So make the math work
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 08:02 PM
Sep 2023

Last edited Mon Oct 2, 2023, 07:07 PM - Edit history (1)

People are happy to cheer UBI as the magic solution before trying to do any math.

Only 66 million adults are on social security, with an average yearly payment of $21,000, and we can't even come up with a way to pay for that.

250 million adults in the US would be eligible for UBI.

Just saying "taxing billionaires" isn't close to the amount of money needed.

rubbersole

(11,263 posts)
27. 15% tax on every imported item.
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 07:58 PM
Sep 2023

Plus income tax rates pre-Reagan without loopholes. Everyone below $150K per year qualifies for $25K. Probably more math than I'm capable of...

EX500rider

(12,677 posts)
31. Well lets do the rough math
Sun Oct 1, 2023, 12:00 AM
Oct 2023

32% of Americans earning at least $150,000 a year.
Of 250,000,000 adults, minus roughly the 83 million who make that much leaves us 167 million who would get $25,000, I think that's still 4.1 trillion dollars a year, some higher income tax and 15% import tax may not cut it.

Imports are around $3.4 trillion, 15% of that will be 566 billion I think, nowhere near the amount needed, raising taxes on the 32% by almost 3 trillion is not feasible.

rubbersole

(11,263 posts)
32. What would happen to an honest politician...
Sun Oct 1, 2023, 01:56 AM
Oct 2023

...that proposed a version of a guaranteed basic income and tax rates from 1975 plus an import tax. The percentages and details adjusted to make it feasible. (What I suggested above was pulled out of my....) That politician would be as popular as FDR. The military budget adjusted for reality is a topic for another discussion.

MichMan

(17,315 posts)
35. 1975 federal tax rates as you suggest
Sun Oct 1, 2023, 10:10 AM
Oct 2023
38 % on income above $20k

55% >$38k

66% >$70k

70% >$100k



Taxing all income at 1975 levels and rates would likely raise quite a bit. So taxes just like we had back then, plus a 15% excise tax on all imported products, would raise quite a bit.

I would expect that our trading partners would then impose a 15% on all our exports in retaliation. The question is how much UBI and is it also taxable income ?





rubbersole

(11,263 posts)
38. UBI is the only thing I've heard...
Sun Oct 1, 2023, 11:09 PM
Oct 2023

..that even remotely attempts to address wealth inequality. It's only going to get worse.

Response to rubbersole (Reply #27)

magicarpet

(19,178 posts)
6. Fasten you seat belt and tighten the chin strap on your crash helmet.
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 04:44 PM
Sep 2023

When robotics and Artificial Intelligence really steps into the forefront after the bugs are worked out employment is in for nasty awakening.

Wait for the railroad trains, passenger trains, delivery trucks, tractor trailer trucks, taxi cabs, and GrubHub, Door Dash and other food delivery all become driver-less and fully autonomous vehicles.

Artificial Intelligence is making a big dent in white collar jobs too. At one time they thought these jobs would be spared the coming robotic age.

tinrobot

(12,104 posts)
8. Is that "AI" or is it just better robotics?
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 04:51 PM
Sep 2023

Robots have been replacing humans for decades.

There's not many welders or painters on auto assembly lines anymore, for example. Replaced by robots in the 70s-90s.

hunter

(40,807 posts)
11. I can do that kind of work.
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 05:12 PM
Sep 2023

I've got the skills and education.

It's not for everybody.

There were so many days I was just happy loading trucks.

hunter

(40,807 posts)
17. Those were my favorite jobs in retrospect.
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 06:19 PM
Sep 2023

The most difficult job I ever had was teaching science in an overcrowded severely underfunded big city public school.

That work was always in my head 24/7.

And how I met my wife.

When my wife was accepted to graduate school in a distant state (we'd met teaching) I eagerly followed her.

My lab and clerical skills, which I could usually leave at work, blessed relief, paid most of the bills, even with babies.



Rebl2

(17,893 posts)
16. They did
Sat Sep 30, 2023, 06:03 PM
Sep 2023

Last edited Sat Sep 30, 2023, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)

this with post office twenty or more years ago. Not so much robots, but machines that sorted packages and mail. My husband was an electronic technician that worked on computers on these machines and maintained them. Many of his coworkers were always asking him to help them figure out a problem because they simply did not understand how to fix or didn’t want to learn. The majority of them were right wing maga idiots. Finally he had enough years of service and finally got fed up and retired.

 

Shanti Shanti Shanti

(12,047 posts)
36. Yeah robots will be taking over 80% of fast food, auto worker jobs in 5 yrs
Sun Oct 1, 2023, 10:16 AM
Oct 2023

MacDonald's needs a new store model franchise revision with no hiring humans, just kiosks and robo workers to cut down overhead, a couple cashier's, online orders, done.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»AI reality: FedEx is auto...