General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI didn't understand Holocaust denial until Oct. 7
They ask me to speak in the schools, my grandmother Manya told me over meringues as we sat in her mirrored dining room. But who will believe me?
Her question was figurative. Who would believe that this matronly, big-haired woman with a red lipsticked smile had endured forced labor in a work camp in Poland, dug mass graves and buried still-moving bodies with bloody earth, escaped the burning camp through a crevice in her barracks roof, and spent a year hiding underground in a hole so small that if one of the four there wanted to turn, they all had to turn?
My grandmothers question was also literal. Who would believe that she had survived the Holocaust when it was just denied by an antisemitic head of state and by a tenured university professor down the street?
When I had this conversation with my grandmother in 2009, her fears of denial seemed unfounded. Yes, there were Holocaust deniers, but they were outliers. Besides, a logical solution to denial seemed to be more education. With enough proof, I thought, the skeptics my grandmother feared so deeply would have to acknowledge the truth. Amid so much evidence, how could anyone have the gall to deny?
Now, in the aftermath of Oct. 7, I finally get it. My grandmother was not paranoid; her cynicism was exactly right. No proof of Jewish suffering will ever be enough to quash denial so perhaps, its time we stop trying to explain ourselves.
more....
claudette
(4,154 posts)I havent seen anyone denying that 10/7 happened. There is video proof.
Behind the Aegis
(54,671 posts)There are multitudes of videos out there claiming Oct. 7th was "glorious" to "it is just Zionist propaganda". There was/is video/pictures of the Holocaust and yet, there are STILL Holocaust deniers. You are aware of that, aren't you?
claudette
(4,154 posts)I am
Aware of the deniers. Both events were horrible and inexcusable but they are not exactly the same. Hamas, fortunately, does not have the power or means to do what Hitler did. And strong militaries defeated Germany. No one is minimizing what happened on 10/7 when they point out the terrible price innocent Palestinians are paying in Gaza.
Behind the Aegis
(54,671 posts)Both events were horrible and inexcusable but they are not exactly the same. Who said this? No one. This is what is known as a strawman argument.
No one is minimizing what happened on 10/7 when they point out the terrible price innocent Palestinians are paying in Gaza. Another strawman.
No one is minimizing what happened to innocent Palestinians of Gaza when they point out the terrible price innocent Israelis suffered on Oct. 7.
See how that works?
claudette
(4,154 posts)The deniers of the Holocaust. Not of 10/7. Calm down you seem to be reading something into my comments that Im not intending. Bye
Behind the Aegis
(54,671 posts)So, the strawman fallacies can stop. Shalom.
Mosby
(16,959 posts)Link to tweet
They just have questions of course. Guy has 386.6K followers.
Eta - the translation is wrong of course, but that won't matter in the long term to the haters.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,581 posts)Beastly Boy
(10,496 posts)Then compare it to:
See any similarities?
The article is not about how Hamas compares to Hitler. Its about how the world reacted to Hamas killing Jews.
The world, in the face of the rise of global antisemitism keeps saying they are outliers. Hamas are not. And the worlds reaction? But they are not Hitler.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Hanas apologists dont deny that Oct 7 happened; they argue that it was an appropriate response to ..something.
Behind the Aegis
(54,671 posts)That pretty much sums it up; boils it down to the most basic of points. All we here is "but, but, Israel..." and "what about", along with "Israel should do this, some bullshit made-up crap that sounds more like a Netflix movie".
sarisataka
(20,084 posts)Auschwitz stands, yet people still deny it was a death camp.
This was in Alameda. Clips were posted from Oakland and other meetings where people flat out denied Hamas had anything to do with October 7 or even if it happened. Pro-Hamas protesters have also publicly denied the atrocities happened on more than one occasion.
Cha
(302,367 posts)Cha
(302,367 posts)denying it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=some+are+denying+oct+7+happened&form=ANNTH1&refig=4e10d526d0684000b300437b57ec56df&pc=HCTS
Qadura Fares, the director of PLO Commission of Prisoners Affairs with the rank of minister. has stated that Israels response to eradicate Hamas terror infrastructure in Gaza is based on a lie, and that Israelis killed their civilians on Oct. 7:
Qadura Fares: This whole [Israeli] outcry and this whole campaign against the Palestinian people is based on a lie, which it took Israel 24 hours to create and formulate properly. They killed their [own] civilians [on Oct. 7], and they committed all these crimes and burned the bodies, and they made up this story and said: They [the Palestinians] raped, killed, and burned. However, this narrative fell apart quickly Israels lie is no longer tripping anyone up. /excerpt]
https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/15/palestinian-authority-leaders-deny-october-7-massacre-took-place/#:~:text=Two%20months%20after%20Hamas%E2%80%99%20attack%20on%20Israel%20on,Authority%20%28PA%29%20officials%20are%20denying%20this%20took%20place.
So Fuck the GD PA Asshole Liars
Richard D
(9,125 posts). . . people have perfect and unquestioning faith that the number of dead reported by The Gaza Health Ministry, operating under the control of and part of Hamas, is telling the whole truth about the death count in Gaza.
Cha
(302,367 posts)Consideration when I said a FU to the PA Liars.
HAMAS & PA Lie About Everything
And, HAMAS Started this War knowing Full Well What Would Happen to Gaza.. and Not Caring.
RockRaven
(15,832 posts)false statements to a lack of education/information is an experience I cannot identify with...
While I have been ignorant of many things and remain ignorant of still many others, I cannot recall experiencing that particular type of blissful ignorance.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,084 posts)Behind the Aegis
(54,671 posts)What a nice thing to say, especially in these times. We should feel safe and validated here, but, alas, it is up to us and the few allies, actual allies, we have.
Throughout history, we Jews have been ghettoized, demonized, and told we are vermin in the same breath that we clandestinely run society. We have survived not because we have convinced any others of our worth, but rather thanks to our values. Like the Holocaust survivors, we will continue to survive, each and every day.