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Diamond_Dog

(34,197 posts)
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 12:51 PM Apr 2024

Many Patients Don't Survive End-Stage Poverty - NYT op-ed - no paywall

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/11/opinion/doctor-safety-net-hospital.html?unlocked_article_code=1.kE0.YcGb.hjj9hDFyIM9B&smid=em-share

*******

He has an easy smile, blue eyes and a life-threatening bone infection in one arm. Grateful for treatment, he jokes with the medical intern each morning. A friend, a fellow doctor, is supervising the man’s care. We both work as internists at a public hospital in the medical safety net, a loose term for institutions that disproportionately serve patients on Medicaid or without insurance. You could describe the safety net in another way, too, as a place that holds up a mirror to our nation.

What is reflected can be difficult to face. It’s this: After learning that antibiotics aren’t eradicating his infection and amputation is the only chance for cure, the man withdraws, says barely a word to the intern. When she asks what he’s thinking, his reply is so tentative that she has to prompt him to repeat himself. Now with a clear voice, he tells her that if his arm must be amputated, he doesn’t want to live. She doesn’t understand what it’s like to survive on the streets, he continues. With a disability, he’ll be a target — robbed, assaulted. He’d rather die, unless, he says later, someone can find him a permanent apartment. In that case, he’ll proceed with the amputation.

The psychiatrists evaluate him. He’s not suicidal. His reasoning is logical. The social workers search for rooms, but in San Francisco far more people need long-term rehousing than the available units can accommodate. That the medical care the patient is receiving exceeds the cost of a year’s rent makes no practical difference. Eventually, the palliative care doctors see him. He transitions to hospice and dies.

A death certificate would say he died of sepsis from a bone infection, but my friend and I have a term for the illness that killed him: end-stage poverty. We needed to coin a phrase because so many of our patients die of the same thing….

*****What is the saying …. The measure of a society is how they treat their most vulnerable …..
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Many Patients Don't Survive End-Stage Poverty - NYT op-ed - no paywall (Original Post) Diamond_Dog Apr 2024 OP
Situations like this shouldn't happen in a country as wealthy as ours. Elessar Zappa Apr 2024 #1
You're right, of course... slightlv Apr 2024 #8
totally agree gopiscrap Apr 2024 #9
St. Ronnie Raygun also eliminated free college education in California OMGWTF Apr 2024 #22
It has been nearly 50 years since Reagan was governor MichMan Apr 2024 #29
Republicans were in charge in California NanaCat Apr 2024 #32
No, but it doesn't hurt to recognize failures. How can we improve without that? I'm pretty sure we haven't fully done KPN Apr 2024 #37
Billionaires want for nothing. Mr. Evil Apr 2024 #11
The "I've got mine, fuck you" attitude isn't limited to the extremely wealthy, unfortunately. ShazzieB Apr 2024 #14
You're so right. Mr. Evil Apr 2024 #21
It's about sharing. Something we learn at three. Joinfortmill Apr 2024 #26
Why point to Bezos/Gates and not Musk, Ellison, Kochs, Yass, Mars, Crowe, Uihleins..Paulson, lostnfound Apr 2024 #24
100% We must keep fighting for the Nordic Model here in the USA. OrlandoDem2 Apr 2024 #13
Yes, especially healthcare and affordable housing. Elessar Zappa Apr 2024 #16
Exactly. OldBaldy1701E Apr 2024 #18
While the country might be rich when you look at GDP and other large measures Warpy Apr 2024 #20
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe Apr 2024 #2
YW Uncle Joe. Powerful stuff..... Diamond_Dog Apr 2024 #6
Kick dalton99a Apr 2024 #3
We are the richest country in the history of the world. Irish_Dem Apr 2024 #4
Yes, and our maternal death rates are horrifying Easterncedar Apr 2024 #27
K&R Docreed2003 Apr 2024 #5
My partner and I are both on "Medi-CAL" CA's medicaid... FirstLight Apr 2024 #7
And you have it way better NanaCat Apr 2024 #34
Weeping irisblue Apr 2024 #10
The fucking richest country in the world does this!!! I am beyond niyad Apr 2024 #12
K & R with... JoeOtterbein Apr 2024 #15
Yes senseandsensibility Apr 2024 #19
It isn't even a matter of "should we share" IbogaProject Apr 2024 #17
... Faux pas Apr 2024 #23
Thank you for all you do. Society can do so Joinfortmill Apr 2024 #25
Appalachian Health Care Pop-ups Delarage Apr 2024 #28
I have volunteered for Remote Area Medical markodochartaigh Apr 2024 #36
This is just the beginning of the end. Hope22 Apr 2024 #30
DURec leftstreet Apr 2024 #31
We have a safety net Puppyjive Apr 2024 #33
Yes and if he can afford an attorney and can find free everything for year while he waits.... Hope22 Apr 2024 #35

Elessar Zappa

(15,311 posts)
1. Situations like this shouldn't happen in a country as wealthy as ours.
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 12:54 PM
Apr 2024

If we had the will, we could put even the Scandinavian social safety net to shame. We have so many resources but unfortunately the rich are hoarding most of it. We need generational change.

slightlv

(4,054 posts)
8. You're right, of course...
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 02:05 PM
Apr 2024

but that's exactly what the R's *don't* want here. It's socialism, you see... at least, to their mind, anything that helps anyone other than the 1% is socialism and communism. Incompatible to our society. Yeah... right. /snark

gopiscrap

(24,115 posts)
9. totally agree
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 02:07 PM
Apr 2024

when I was an infant in Germany I contracted a case of encephalitis and was in a German hospital for 6 months (8 weeks of that in intensive care) my parents bill was 206.00 adjusted for todays inflation. This country partly because of the efforts of shitbags like Ronald Reagan, rejected universal healthcare and now look at where we are today.

OMGWTF

(4,362 posts)
22. St. Ronnie Raygun also eliminated free college education in California
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 03:45 PM
Apr 2024

Have I told you lately that I fking loathe Republicans?

MichMan

(12,916 posts)
29. It has been nearly 50 years since Reagan was governor
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 08:21 AM
Apr 2024

Plenty of time for anything he did to be reversed.

 

NanaCat

(2,332 posts)
32. Republicans were in charge in California
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 10:09 AM
Apr 2024

For most of those 50 years. They had a Republican governor only 12 years ago.

Now the costs are so out of control that resuming subsidized college tuition to pre-Reagan levels would bankrupt the state.

Bashing Democrats for that doesn't change reality.

KPN

(16,022 posts)
37. No, but it doesn't hurt to recognize failures. How can we improve without that? I'm pretty sure we haven't fully done
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 01:27 PM
Apr 2024

that yet.

Mr. Evil

(2,961 posts)
11. Billionaires want for nothing.
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 02:23 PM
Apr 2024

Need a new car? They bought a fleet last month. Need a new TV? Bought 10 last week. There are no more challenges for them. So, they resort to buying people. Judges, politicians, police... anyone that can and will lower their standards (if they had any to start with) to help them maintain the billionaire's status quo. They spend every waking hour scheming how to acquire more money and power.

Very few humans are born to a station in life that affords them the opportunities to acquire great personal wealth. But, if those that could and should uplift society instead of being ultimately selfish this entire country, not to mention the rest of the world, could experience some semblance of enjoyment of this one and only life. People like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates could do most of the heavy lifting by themselves and barely feel a blip in their personal financial statements. But, I guess they're afraid of being called out as 'weak' and/or 'soft' by republican politicians or by AM radio gasbags for helping those less fortunate starting with at least basic shelter. Who knows but, here we are.

Yes, the Scandinavian model is easily attainable in the US. It's just sad that at the moment we are in a cycle of an 'I've got mine, fuck you' attitude among the very wealthy. The money they spend buying people could be much better spent on uplifting and helping preserve human dignity.

ShazzieB

(18,317 posts)
14. The "I've got mine, fuck you" attitude isn't limited to the extremely wealthy, unfortunately.
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 02:59 PM
Apr 2024

It is alive and well among the moderately wealthy and the upper middle class, and it can often be found at even lower levels than that.

For example, when Habitat for Humanity wanted to build homes in my town, who objected? Middle class and upper middle class folks who lived in the neighborhood where Habitat wanted to build, that's who. Property values are EVERYTHING around here, and people are suspicious of anything they fear might possibly affect theirs, regardless of who would be helped or how badly they may need that help. I was horrified to see how strenuously people objected to allowing Habitat to build in their nice, but definitely not particularly upscale neighborhood. It was textbook NIMBY.

The uber wealthy would probably fight something like that, too, but they are insulated from this kind of thing. No one is going to try to build a Habitat house in their neighborhoods, because no one except them can afford to buy land there. Those in the socioeconomic strata that are comfortably off, but without a lot to spare, are the ones affected by this kind of thing, and they will fight it tooth and nail.

A big part of the problem is that many people see helping the needy as a zero sum game and fear that any help given to others will mean something taken away from them. These are the people who keep voting in Republicans year after year, because they know that's the party that isn't going to try to help anybody. It doesn't occur to them that Republicans are also going to do things that will be bad for them.

In case you're wondering, Habitat did eventually build some homes here, not in the neighborhood where they initially tried, but another one where, I assume, the homeowners didn't object as much.

Mr. Evil

(2,961 posts)
21. You're so right.
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 03:43 PM
Apr 2024

Thanks for the additions and extra info. Anything or anyone 'different' scares the shit out of the NIMBY crowd.

lostnfound

(16,514 posts)
24. Why point to Bezos/Gates and not Musk, Ellison, Kochs, Yass, Mars, Crowe, Uihleins..Paulson,
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 04:51 PM
Apr 2024

We ought to know who they are, these people who control major companies. Musk is like a lightning rod by personality but there are many others who are not just not helping, but actively destroying chances for a more equitable, reasonable society;.

All the people mentioned above are supporting trump and the GOP.

OrlandoDem2

(2,231 posts)
13. 100% We must keep fighting for the Nordic Model here in the USA.
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 02:54 PM
Apr 2024

It’s pathetic that our country is so behind others when it comes to the social safety net.

OldBaldy1701E

(6,068 posts)
18. Exactly.
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 03:10 PM
Apr 2024

And that is because those two things are the most profitable things going, domestically speaking. Remember who we are talking about.

https://i.postimg.cc/y8Ww2XqB/temp-Image5v-ENT7.avif

Warpy

(113,000 posts)
20. While the country might be rich when you look at GDP and other large measures
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 03:27 PM
Apr 2024

of national worth, that wealth has never been distributed.. Even my right wing dad complained that we knew how to create great wealth but we'd never learned how to share it with everybody.

Things were a little better before Reagan got in and transferred wealth from working people to the richest. Before Reagan, there were rooming houses for marginal workers and even most alcoholic vets until they became end stage drinkers.

Now the well has run completely dry, nothing left thanks to underfunding, no funding, and insane eligibility requirements. In addition, the old rooming houses have long since been razed to make way for high rises or turned back into mansions housing a couple of yuppies and a rug rat where once they'd housed 20-30 people. There is no longer anywhere to go but the street.

So the country might look rich on paper, but people are poor and getting poorer. Measurements of things like life expectancy are going down, not up. And the rich are obsessed with ever increasing numbers, so don't expect them to share voluntarily.

Yes, we know what to do about all this. We are just never permitted to do it unless there has been a crash followed by a reform period.

Irish_Dem

(55,825 posts)
4. We are the richest country in the history of the world.
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 01:07 PM
Apr 2024

Yet we do not have the highest standard of living.

And the poverty, lack of housing, food, medical care is shameful.

FirstLight

(13,781 posts)
7. My partner and I are both on "Medi-CAL" CA's medicaid...
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 01:56 PM
Apr 2024

We're both dealing with multiple chronic health issues. While we are in a "healthcare desert"in a rural area in the Sierras....
My dentist is in Folsom, almost 2 hours away down the mtn.
My other specialist is in Sacramento.
Her specialist is at UC Davis, which is a 3 hour drive and overnight stay (how much does THAT cost?)

We're lucky that Tahoe is a sports medicine capital, so our joint and spine issues can be handled here.

The only saving grace is that I own my home and we have a safe place to live. Otherwise we would be screwed. We still have issues getting meds approved and even certain tests and procedures have to be finagled through insurance before we can get help.

We both are very bitter about the healthcare situation in this country.

 

NanaCat

(2,332 posts)
34. And you have it way better
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 10:13 AM
Apr 2024

Than people in states without something as good as Medi-CAL--which is quite good compared even to many private insurance plans.

Plenty of Americans pay for private insurance and can't get the care they need because the co-pays are often outrageous and insurance companies deny so many claims.

niyad

(118,726 posts)
12. The fucking richest country in the world does this!!! I am beyond
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 02:52 PM
Apr 2024

outraged, almost beyond tears.

I was going to say that I would be inclined to slap the next person I hear bragging about our death-care system, but, instead, I am going to carry copies of this article with me, and shove a copy at such an idiot.

IbogaProject

(3,424 posts)
17. It isn't even a matter of "should we share"
Sat Apr 13, 2024, 03:07 PM
Apr 2024

We are all worse off without everyone covered all the time. It creates non-medical delays every step of the way. We are all worse off when the Emergency Room is overloaded. We are all worse off with out enough preventative care smoothing out and lowering the number of acute cases. The root cause of this mess is a cohort in the 1940s didn't want minorities to get health coverage. The whole system grew into the mess it is from that original sin.

Delarage

(2,330 posts)
28. Appalachian Health Care Pop-ups
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 08:09 AM
Apr 2024

Are an example of how far we've fallen.........the Republican oligarchs have used social issues & propaganda to divide and conquer the common people....to the point where deep-red states/counties rely on random acts of kindness for healthcare. Instead of, you know, voting for progressives.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/nov/23/enormous-pop-up-clinic-trying-bridge-americas-health-divide

markodochartaigh

(1,838 posts)
36. I have volunteered for Remote Area Medical
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 12:17 PM
Apr 2024

They provide medical, dental, and vision services for free and no id is required.

https://www.ramusa.org/schedule/

Hope22

(2,467 posts)
30. This is just the beginning of the end.
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 09:34 AM
Apr 2024

My heart goes out to this man and I can understand his thinking. When the right finishes with women in this country I image almost half of our population will feel this same way. Tying the hands of women, mandating them to unlimited mandatory pregnancy, eliminating their chances of higher education and careers, and denying them lifesaving medical care will force them to make these same heart wrenching drastic decisions. One thing we don’t talk about is what can happen to women who have baby after baby without time to recover between pregnancies. I’ve witnessed it in my own family. My sister in law lives in a rural poverty filled county. Her back woods religion mandates that she wear dresses, not cut her hair, refuse all forms of birth control and submit to her husband at his wishes. No refusal! She carried and delivered six children in nine years after which her uterus dropped through her vagina and between her legs. Surgery was required and at the time Medicaid supplied the necessary surgery. Fast forward 25 years to her daughter following in mother’s footsteps who had birthed four babies in almost as many years. To no surprise her body gave out and to her fright she found her organs hanging between her legs! Female bodies are not machines meant to crank out baby after baby without rest and repair. Will we close the hospital doors to these women in the future? The direction that we are headed is not sustainable.

Yes I know this post is about a man dying and the loss of his arm and his chance of surviving in our dystopian society. I am completely outraged by the heartless world millions survive in here. As well I am outraged at the lack of males speaking out and standing up for the hog tying of women and their future chance at survival here. This should not be an issue. Quality birth control and safe abortion should not be pawns in a man’s game.

Puppyjive

(563 posts)
33. We have a safety net
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 10:09 AM
Apr 2024

It's called social security disability. 2 programs. One for those who worked and paid into the system. And one is SSI, for those who haven't. SSI is basically welfare.

Hope22

(2,467 posts)
35. Yes and if he can afford an attorney and can find free everything for year while he waits....
Sun Apr 14, 2024, 10:21 AM
Apr 2024

He just might get SSI. I’m sure this guy is aware of the nightmare!

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