while they trash our candidate without telling us WHY they are taking this huge risk and trying to negate our primary votes.

Wisdom is knowing when to keep quiet.

Thank you

And sometimes it is prudent To not be ruled by the billionaires.

I was under the impression that we had rules and standards and that we count the votes and honor the will of the people.

We should of course support the Democratic nominee, especially after all he has done for us and will do for us in the future if he is elected for a second term. However, we can continue to support Joe Biden without attacking people like Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Adam Schiff.

It is overdue.

It's on.

I really enjoy your stylings.

they could be bots, disruptors, etc.

Considering upping it to 10,000 posts now.

Extreme? Possibly. but along with the post count we should also be told how long the poster has been active.

Why else does the post count appear next to the poster name?

Long time ago I would chime in on any post that had a post count under 100 with a "welcome to DU" message, and while I want our community to grow, I have become more paranoid that low post count members are here for ulterior motives.

Some walk away for a few years, some never return.

Since this is the fist time I'm replying to you. Welcome to DU!

Reddit has the karma system.

Welcome to DU!

For example, the person you welcomed to DU had already been here for a decade when you joined DU in 2015.

and I've been here since 2007. I use DU on my phone, and they don't appear on the mobile version of the website.

A quick way to tell if someone has been here for a while, is to click their name. You will be able to find the date they joined on their profile.

I think my favorite part is how much "blue" is involved. Really sells it.

We don’t live in a monarchy and I don’t go to church. I’m not going to put my brain on worship. The anonymous cowards can go piss up a rope.

Maybe we could find a different, more rational, response than rage.

“When in danger or in doubt
Run in circles, scream and shout”

does not always get the best results

Cussing, blaming, not facing reality is not going to get us very far.

When working with adults it is better to use logic, facts, and a good argument.

There is no argument because they are not saying anything. This far we have been shut out. That is not acceptable in a democracy. And if you get her undies in a bunch about some blue language, I don’t what to tell ya. Because it is likely to get really ugly.

I think you are mistaken about me.
I can out cuss any one here.
I come from an Irish Catholic military family.

The point is, cussing is not a persuasive tactic.
Best to stick to facts and logic to sway most people with any brains.

And you know I agree with you.
Being shut out of the process does not sit well with me either.
I think they are wrong to do it this way.

apart. Apparently it's the donors that don't care for our vote. If there is a solid reason, then explain. The powers that be can not simply ask us to just trust them. Those days are gone.

and not one of them with a viable alternative, not ONE solution from them.

You wanna know who has clean up all that verbal diarrhea? US, that's who.

They make OUR burden heavier while not offering ANY solution, thus they are helping Trump.

To be more polite and don’t malign politicians who might possibly be a little self interested. I’m sorry I will speak up . They are not my betters. I am horrified they are trying to get rid of a man who has done incredible things in spite of some Democratic politicians . What is really scary is who do they want to replace him with. I voted for Joe in the primaries, I don’t want that vote to be meaningless and if that makes folks uncomfortable that’s unfortunate.

who then will hear us? How? How do we then know who we support matters?
They are speaking with their silence. Jamie Harrison’s message seems as though it is meant to tell us “nothing to see here” except the silence by the leaders, letting Schiff carry their water, is the only message that matters.

If there is a concern get on with it and be a little transparent.Because all I see now is them shitting all over our votes.If you are going to spit in my face do me the courtesy of telling me why.

I know donors have threatened and I know that politicians have caved.At least try to convince me it needs doing before breaking your promises.

… and what I see in the moment is that we (yes, we) are eating our own.

Puts me in mind of an even uglier version of the support for kicking Al Franken out of the Senate based on the lies of a woman who on closer examination turned out to be in the pay of Right Wingers.

So, edisdead, you got any other choice insults?

There was a belief this could be wished away if we didn’t talk about it. Then after Saturday most people including myself thought it was over. And now instead of being over it looks as though it’s entering a much more serious phase. It’s a lot for people to take in. That breeds frustration and anger , which we have all seen here.

But I do accept our common purpose and your right to say it.

I've used some of the negative language myself but will stop doing so.

Wow. Interesting take. People seem pretty upset to me.

Seems like its a one sided effort on my part though.

There are a lot of very angry upset people on the forum about what is going on. OP after OP. But hey, if you think people are happy and content then run with that it…I guess.

I wish I could cite evidence to help with trying to agree to agree, but alas, now is not the place and time, not yet.

I think people are justifiably frustrated and angry about the fact something is going on behind the scenes and we are out of the loop.

That said there could be legitimate reasons for this, perhaps there are sensitive issues in play.
Obviously.

We are going to have to face reality and move forward.

At some point the truth has to be revealed for us to do that.

We need to know...

People need information, direction and leadership.

I think it has to be soon and before the convention.

If I was advising the campaign from a psych standpoint that is what I would tell the leadership.
No more game playing and behind the scene sausage making.

Get upfront with the base and start bringing them onboard.
Or you are going to lose them.

Of course it has to be before the convention. otherwise whoever it is can’t be on the ballot in Ohio.

For real? Are we really not even paying attention?

Which may or may not be predictive.

I am a skeptical person and don't hesitate to assume the worst of the MSM, wealthy donors, and many politicians. However, my personal opinion is that there's something real going on. It behooves us to stay calm and see how things unfold.

I love and respect President Biden. I want Trump to be defeated. There are important down ticket races, too. Leaders I respect are worried.

This is not just about the debate.

The last thing I will do is run around trashing every other Democratic politician. That's a hysterical reaction.

No leaks, and intentional leaks are for weaklings.

I am sure that the is a flood of ChatGOP garbage out there and I sense it here (hint)

But silence just proves that something is going on "in the back room' which is where nominations used to be decided.

That is wrong.

I have a conspiracy or two running through the gray matter, and what if a Putin style attack was made on Biden just before the debate? "The secretary will deny" Only high ranking officials would be briefed (ahem) and contingency plans outside the customary scenario planning by executive branch would be done in the crappiest of secrecy so that rumors and trolls could fill in the blanks.

It's time for the superpowers to be invoked. But elections are not official acts FOR DEMOCRSTS.

It’s that people doing terrible things shouldn’t be called terrible things, otherwise you’re just causing more terrible things to happen.

Being ratfucked by your own people should only result in silence and acceptance. 🙄

One of this site's fundamental rules is to 'support Democrats', but what should we do when prominent Democrats are not supporting their own?

NT

Trump is the dictator, not Democrats.

and I didn't like it then either.

The ones fostering the anger are the irresponsibile press, the wealthy donors and members of our party and their staff who are playing these insane backroom games. They're going to cause us to lose.

And quit with the patronizing. It's not a good look. You keep posting stuff telling us things like "they can't tell us right now but they have our best interests at heart." And that we should just "trust our leaders, because they're doing what is best for us."
Well, here's the thing: we're not children and they're not our effing parents, they're our ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES. I expect to be kept informed, and I expect them to act in a responsible, adult, open manner. I expect them to not play political games with my vote. I expect them to act with honor and dignity - and these games they're playing are none of those things.

The need to get reelected is what kept the GOP in line behind Trumps corruption.

We should change the system.

house and senate candidates are seeing polls that biden is hurting the democratic party. the polls are ones that we do not see…internal polls. i like biden. i think he has done a great job, but that will mean nothing if his presence on the ballot costs the nation its freedoms.

money.

Having begun by alleging mental incapacity, the movement to oust Mr. Biden has been reduced, in its public claims, to predictions based on 'internal' polling.

In assessing the worth of political prognostication by our party's establishment figures, the old saw 'If you're so smart, why ain't ya rich?' comes to mind. If our party's strategists and consultants and leading officials were anywhere near so good at the work as they seem to think they are, we would be living in a far different political climate than we do.


"The fact is, these aren't very bright people, and things got out of hand."

Disregarding peoples votes is the best way I can think of to destroy the party.

People warned of this years ago and they were right.

This will be disastrous.

You steal my vote. Piss on you.

Your vote is not being stolen, in those leaders minds; and they have not had the opportunity to plead their case, yet.

...and let the political royalty make our political choices for us?

The vitriol directed at party leadership is the result of self inflicted wounds by them. Conversations around internal polling and how to beat Trump, keep the Senate and retake the house are absolutely necessary and critical. What isn’t necessary are the constant media leaks, public statements and unnamed source leaks for several weeks which have not only hurt us in the polls (whether accurate or not), but are providing the bad guys cover for their terrible ideas and policies that if highlighted would cause them to lose this election. If these discussions need to be had so be it but running to CNN and releasing statements because you don’t think Joe is listening just fractures the party and hurts us in every way. This nonsense has to stop.

I understand that is all you see, and it makes you angry.

The Republicans are using this to say we're the one subverting democracy.

It gives the impression that you are in on the secret. I hope that I am wrong and I am probably reading things into your reply, but just in case you do have a way to communicate with these "insiders" please let them know that WE are the base and we are NOT AT ALL HAPPY WITH THEM!! They are in office to represent US and thy are not doing that from our perspective.

And I can't help but think campaign money may be behind this. I would also remind you that Joe Biden is our presumptive nominee and current leader. He is a Democratic leader...Some would do well to consider that before posting every bit of rumor and innuendo in found in dishonest media organizations like No Label. Attacking Biden is not allowed either. Biden will not step down. Polls look damn good. And we would lose if he did. As for those Democrats who have made unwise choices in statements and postings that actually give aid and comfort to Trump and Republicans, I say shame on them. Republicans have had more success than we have in the last few years because they have party loyalty. We need some of that before we lose our Republic. I will trash all posts that attack Democrat leaders including Biden.

Fixed it.

WHO put Carville up to this crap? THAT is what should be asked.

They are monkeys dancing for billionaires.

I understand Joe Manchin -- he has aways been the sma eself centered politician. Everything that he has done for his whole public life has been to increase the value of the family business and to stay in teh good graces of the coal and other meagdonors who have given him money. I don't agree with what he does, but I know what he will consistently do. Create loopholes that enrich the MAnchin family and do things that will help to keep him in power.

These other congress critters -- I am looking specifically at people like Schiff and Jefferies -- they are dancing the dance to protect their billionaire donors. Democratic leaning billionaires MAY BE SLIGHTLY LESS EVIL than Republican billionaire donors -- but no one, absolutely no one, gets to that kind of obscene without doing mauy things that are not either evil, immoral, or so sketchy that most of us with a moral compass would not do. These billionaires are trying to tank Joe Biden which will lead to a Project 2025 world.

They think that being rich, they will benefit from the tax breaks. They will be OK -- they are rich, many are white males. But they forgot the fundamnetal risk of allowing the face eating party to win. They will eventually eat your face and steal your wealth as well.

After these puppets of billionaires are silenced and hopefully Joe wins -- every single one of them should be stripped of leadership positions. You want to dance for the billionaires rather than Ridin' with Biden -- then enjoy the world of being a nobody in congress. Adam Shiff , enjoy your 6 years with crappy committee assignments until someone who actually cares about voters and not megadonors (i.e. Katie Porter) comes to primary you. Shumer, you will wish you get the reception of boos that accompanied McConnell at the RNC. You should be a pariah.

Do not defend these self serving asshats any longer.

I think there is no question that Biden's debate performance was a point of genuine concern. And I would not like it if the Democratic leadership did not have serious discussions on its repercussions upon his campaign.

However, I don't think the top Democrats have handled this well at all. Allowing leaks and taking their grievances to the press is stupid. They and their people should know the media machine is just out for itself (or worse, covertly aiding Trump in service of their wealthy owners). That they would sensationalize it to stir up drama.

The irony is I think a coordinated and disciplined approach with low media profile might have actually opened up the possibility of a replacement candidate. I wouldn't have liked it, and it also carries a lot of risks (As discussed elsewhere). But from my vantage point, they've delegitimized their own efforts in the eyes of many.

Sure, I've read all the stuff about Biden being stubborn or being overly protected by his inner circle. Though, at this point, I'm no longer sure what is actual news and what is just output from the rumor mill traded online.

I'm not going to name call Pelosi and the rest, but I'm finding it hard to maintain my sympathy for their words or actions.

"I allow you to work for me and mine. But don't you dare think about contradicting me, opposing what I and my fellow elites are doing, and remember, you are bound to the Party."

Bollocks!

"Most of them cannot tell you why they are doing what they are doing,"...

It’s quite obvious that some of them need to go. Lock step, don’t say anything bad, wait they are allowed. This is the same as the republicans not allowed to say anything bad about their dear leader. Always question authority.

And would be hidden by DU juries and condemned as trolls participating in elaborate half-baked conspiracies.

Because the 81 year old lifetime senator, who's been in Washington since he was 29, and who was never once a serious Dem primary contender until Obama chose him as VP, is DU's man of the people hero of the working class facing off against the grandest conspiracy of "elites" consisting off... everyone who isn't Mike Donilon and Hunter Biden. It makes perfect sense.

Spare me the “our benevolent masters” narrative. Jesus.

Anyone with 2 synapses to rub together understands what’s happening to Joe Biden. There’s nothing unfair about attacking “them” here. Critical thinking is a huge responsibility. Step up.

I will do a lot of things for this party And I will do even more for my country. What I will not do is be a lemming. I will not blindly follow.I will trust as far as I feel something is trustworthy. I can recognize the good that people have done and I can also point out where I disagree. I was a sailor so if I swear a bit too fucking bad.There is an ignore button if Timmy don’t like a few naughty words.

There are people on the other side that want to put people in camps. who want to round people up a d deport them. People who think childless women shouldn’t vote. Or that any woman shouldn’t vote. Some want to lock up trans people. Some who believe certain jobs are for poc. Some that believe in ci version therapy. Some that think you should work until your last day on earth.

No I am sorry but in the face of all that I am not going to blindly follow you. NOT happening. And if you circumvent my vote and you fail to deliver. You aren’t my party. You simply cannot be in my party. My party is the party of Democracy. It is right there in the name. If they do this, they are playing right into the GOP’s hands. I will fight to primary every single one who partakes in this. I may not ever be successful but it will clear my conscience of knowing that I am going to stand up against them.

This is beyond nuts. Be a lemming if you must. I won’t and simply cannot be that.

And why our party leaders didn't smack it down.

That will never be ok. The party base whose votes are being thrown out have every right to be upset with them. The dem elites are acting like the GOP SCOTUS in 2000. Throwing out votes is anti-democracy.

Create a new poem combining "The Destruction Of Sennacherib" by Lord Byron with "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" by the Charlie Daniels Band.

I’ll hold no Ill feelings. We all have our views and opinions..