General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe Just Lived Through Two of the Hottest Days Ever. Does Anyone Care?
The climate crisis is cooking the planet faster than we ever imagined, and extreme heat is killing us. What will it take to shake us into action?https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/two-hottest-days-ever-1235068388/
Earlier this week, the Copernicus Climate Change Service, a European Union-funded research group, announced that last Sunday, July 21, 2024, the daily global average temperature hit 62.76 degrees. It was the hottest day scientists have measured since 1940 which officially makes it the hottest day ever recorded on Earth by humans. Twenty four hours later, however, Copernicus had to update its report: On Monday, the temperature climbed up to 62.87 degrees. As of now, July 22, 2024 is now the hottest day ever recorded.
Are you shocked by news of this record-breaking heat? Does the fact that you lived through two of the hottest days on Earth that scientists have ever recorded make you think differently about the risks and consequences of living on a rapidly-warming planet? Did you pause for a moment and think about the millions of people who sweat through this without air conditioning? Did you mourn the 396 deaths from heat that are under investigation this summer in Phoenix? Did you sell your car and buy an electric bike? Were you inspired to sign up to knock on doors to help Kamala Harris defeat the climate-hoax-pushing-criminal Donald Trump? Are you getting calls from your MAGA-loving uncle in Idaho apologizing for the long lecture he gave you at Thanksgiving last year about how Earths temperature moves in natural cycles, or about how higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere is good because more CO2 makes crops and trees grow better? Probably not.
The problem is not you. The problem is that a broken heat record is just another statistic. The story of the climate crisis is written in broken records that measure levels of CO2 pollution, glacial ice melt, rising sea levels, crop failure, megafires, the spread of diseases, heat deaths, wildfire and insurance costs, and economic losses. But if shocking data and broken records could galvanize people to take action on climate, wed all be powering our iPhones with solar power from microgrids, and millions of cows and chickens would be liberated from factory farms. Wed have cities crowded with bike lanes and a high speed rail service between Dallas and Houston. Wed laugh at climate-hoaxing politicians and debate whether it is fair and just to charge Big Oil companies with criminally negligent homicide.
First, nobody cares about numbers. They care about stories. They care about emotion. They care about life, death, hope, dreams. And money. A heat statistic is not a visceral thing. It is a data point. And thanks to years of strategic targeting of trusted media and scientific institutions by far-right autocrats everywhere, we live in a world that increasingly distrusts data points. Where is the line between fake news and fake data? On social media platforms, its easy to find climate deniers claiming that temperature monitoring stations are all located in hot places on airport runways or in sun-baked parking lots, suggesting that there is some grand conspiracy to crank up the temperature readings so that George Soros can control the world and force you to sell your jacked-up 4-wheeler and grill crickets instead of hamburgers at your next summer BBQ.
![](du4img/smicon-reply-new.gif)
leftstreet
(36,192 posts)It's like a zombie apocalypse going unnoticed
jimfields33
(17,887 posts)I think thats why its not being looked at seriously by the public at large.
Think. Again.
(14,902 posts)....sometimes I feel very alone watching what is happening, as it seems everyone else is just going about their daily business, as if the reality isn't reality at all.
I don't know how to describe it, I'm afraid soon I'll become that crazy person running through the streets screaming for people to pay attention, and it'll be me that gets the pitying glances.
Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)and I've been waiting for almost 50 years to see serious discussion and action on such a critical issue. But thanks to the reichwing and their fossil fuel corporate whore allies here we are past the tipping point. I hate to ever take a selfish stance, but for the last decade I simply keep reminding myself: "I'm so glad that I'm 77 and not 20." If I had most of my life ahead of me instead of behind, I would be in a murderous rage at my elders.
I share your feelings of bewilderment and frustration, Think. Again.
Think. Again.
(14,902 posts)RandomNumbers
(18,048 posts)( specifically a "demographic problem" )
When what FEW people (even on the left, or center-left at least, I'm afraid) refuse to acknowledge is that 8 BILLION PEOPLE IS TOO MANY - for all those people to have decent, equitable lives and be sustainable for future generations to continue to have decent, equitable lives. Take away the equity (of course we never got there in the recent past or currently), and you have violent conflict.
Replacing one power source with another can slow the disaster, but unless the CAUSE is addressed - too many humans trying to live here all at the same time - humanity is still headed for disaster. I wonder when a majority will figure it out?
And of course any DECENT human being wants the reversal to happen humanely. But resource conflicts are not humane. And we have already been seeing them and they will still get worse.
Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 27, 2024, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)
we need to keep increasing the world's population growth rate, and economic growth rate.
CrispyQ
(37,511 posts)There's no financial incentive to curb population & profit is God. It's hard to see a positive outcome for our species.
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,123 posts)The asphalt and concrete streets will soon be too hot to walk on. On the positive side, they're good heat sinks.
misanthrope
(7,877 posts)Our genotype was molded by survival in the African wilderness over the last 150,000 years. We can handle thinking about threats like possible predators lying in wait, but not about what's coming down the pike in a century.
2naSalit
(90,505 posts)Definitely horrified.
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)It amazes me how much people will pay for vehicles these days. And many are simply ego buys.
I've never spent 20k on a car & I doubt I will on my next one.
ProfessorGAC
(68,108 posts)...they had an F-150 with the "Shelby Package".
It was $115k MSRP!
That's twice what we paid for our house!
oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)We need to quit paying ridiculous prices for vehicles.
oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)Global emissions are about stable over the past several years. US emissions are WAY down from 20 yrs ago.
But the rest of the world isnt following along; China & India both are increasing their coal power production.
Its getting warmer & we're not going to stop it.
Think. Again.
(14,902 posts)oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)No one is pushing nuclear power, which is the ONLY WAY to provide the amounts of power needed to power our societies. It took over a DECADE to build a new reactor in GA; the first one in MANY years. Thats ridiculous.
Nuclear is the only way forward & yet few people on either side in Congress are pushing the issue.
Think. Again.
(14,902 posts)....and I completely agree, we will need every tool in our toolbox, if we ever decide to use them.
womanofthehills
(9,095 posts)New SunZia wind farm currently being built in NM ( largest in US ) will generate 3500 MW of power.
Average nuclear reactor in US = 900 MW of power. Plus you need that dirty uranium - which we are still getting lots of from Russia.
TheKentuckian
(25,635 posts)Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)The arrogance of the human Anthropocene epoch basically equates to the murder of a habitable earth.
oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)I dont of any country pushing that. Some areas will be MORE habitable but others less.
As I said in my 2nd post we wont push nuclear power that WOULD make a difference. But then maybe it wouldnt do we REALY know? because it has been this hot before. There just weren't any humans around. How much is caused by us & how much is other causes? I dont know. But I do my best.
I push nuclear to everyone I can. Who in congress is pushing it?
Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)And I've been pushing for advanced modular reactors, but most people just knee-jerk anything nuclear.
oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)Just putting a good portion of a home in the ground would keep it naturally near the mid 60s. I've seen some homes built like that but we just cant get People to quit trying to outdo each other.
womanofthehills
(9,095 posts)They can produce MW cheaper with wind - and they want fast profits.
oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)Its not even green when you factor in the costs of mfg & where the supplies come from; and more dependence on china again.
Ponietz
(3,232 posts)Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)Great, but tragic concept as the world burns.
Kaleva
(37,447 posts)Some scientists believe we are very near the tipping point or may have already passed it.
Basically, there's little chance anymore of preventing it and it would take a world wide effort of herculean proportions just to mitigate it
With the pace of climate change apparently rapidly increasing, the time to prepare gets shorter
oldsoftie
(13,339 posts)If you live on the coast sell out & move inland (you'll have a lot more money anyway)
Move away from rivers
Etc.
Everyone's situation is different so everyone has to do quality research to get the info needed in order to formulate a plan.
misanthrope
(7,877 posts)How did humans react to that? How effective were efforts?
COVID-19 measures were a cakewalk compared to climate change challenges.
malaise
(274,648 posts)Important
moondust
(20,282 posts)out west and in Canada.
DBoon
(22,833 posts)and you will never force a Real American to drive an electric vehicle
RandomNumbers
(18,048 posts)![](/emoticons/banghead.gif)
former9thward
(33,003 posts)The U.S. is not contributing any significant amount to the world's population growth.
Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)the relentless propaganda of the reichwing and especially their born-again fundie adherents.
God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea."
RandomNumbers
(18,048 posts)even though population growth is a concern in and of itself, that particular comment was more about the attitude of Republicans towards women as only having value as breeding stock.
former9thward
(33,003 posts)Who cares what God says or what somebody says God says? That message is not creating any population growth in the U.S.
Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)More than 20 US Christian groups known for fighting against LGBT rights and access to safe abortion, contraceptives and comprehensive sexuality education have spent at least $54m in Africa since 2007. These are the results of a new investigation by openDemocracy, which documents the scale of this spending for the first time.
Two groups that oppose contraception and abortion, Human Life International and Heartbeat International, have spent at least $4.3m, combined, on the continent. An earlier openDemocracy investigation found that crisis pregnancy centres affiliated with Heartbeat violate South African law on abortion counselling and discourage contraception in Uganda.
It's imperialism. It's neocolonialism. It's basically the Bible that they are coming back with, which is not African, says Sibongile Ndashe, a South African feminist who heads the Institute for Strategic Litigation in Africa (ISLA).
They have lost support in their home country. Now they are looking for countries where they can dump their ideologies, says Frank Mugisha, a Ugandan LGBT rights activist. They do it somewhere else where they feel they have more power.
former9thward
(33,003 posts)Do you have any evidence of that? Give us the countries and the population statistics which have been driven by American fundamentalists.
Bundbuster
(4,018 posts)https://www.amazon.com/Exporting-American-Gospel-Christian-Fundamentalism/dp/0415917123
*snip*
Fundamentalist Christianity, a fusion of American popular religion and politics, is one of the most significant cultural influences exported from the United States. With illuminating case studies based on extensive field research, Exporting the American Gospel demonstrates how Christian fundamentalism has taken hold in many nations in Africa, Latin America and Asia.
The most integral goal of American fundamentalism is suppressing women's rights, even birth control, and promoting their Biblical beliefs in "Go forth and prosper, multiply..."
RandomNumbers
(18,048 posts)Just because many other cultures are misogynistic and backwards, doesn't mean the U.S. should be.
Or did you miss JD Vance's comments about childless women? To the extent he walked it back even a little bit, he was clear he was only okay with women being childless IF it was a medical issue. Choice is not an approved option for Vance.
As for population growth, let's try an analogy: if you have a glass under the spigot and it is overflowing, do you not turn off the spigot because, ah that little trickle isn't adding "significantly" to the wasted water?
former9thward
(33,003 posts)The U.S. is below the population replacement rate which means not only is it not contributing to world growth but it is reducing it. Why you are bringing in all sort of other things into this simple math equation I don't know.
https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2024/3/22/us-demographic-projections-with-and-without-immigration
RandomNumbers
(18,048 posts)![](/emoticons/shrug.gif)
Last I checked, we have endangered species in this country and evidence of too many people fighting over too few resources. The fact that we aren't as bad off as some other places in the world, doesn't negate those issues.
Meanwhile, due to the even worse failure to control population around the globe, not to mention failure to create sustainable, decent, and equitable living standards, we will have immigration continuing to raise our population here in this country. Short of electing a dictator who will shred the Constitution (obviously what Trump wants but presumably not what you want), immigration will continue to happen. Thus exacerbating the problem here. And there, because having an outlet for unwanted humans (through immigration to receiving countries like the US), lessens the pressure somewhat on the sending countries.
POPULATION IS A PROBLEM
FORCING WOMEN TO GIVE BIRTH IS A PROBLEM
Do you disagree with these statements? And particularly if you disagree with the second one - why are you here?
I still don't understand what the US's relatively low contribution to global population, has to do with my post that you initially responded to? Unless you DO like the idea of forcing women to give birth, because maybe we need more babies of "American" origin? Hopefully I'm way off, just not seeing the relevance or sense of your posts.
former9thward
(33,003 posts)Which people tend to do when they are going off on a tangent. I don't want anyone to have children who doesn't want to have them. "Population is a Problem" is so subjective and vague I would not know how to answer it. This OP and thread was about climate change. It was you who diverted it.
I would like to know what candidate is running on climate change? Because if they don't they will have no mandate to do anything about it. And I am not talking about CC being number 7 on some list. They have to run on extremely specific things they are going to do or else nothing will be done.
RandomNumbers
(18,048 posts)Over-population - too many people using too many resources and creating too much waste - is part of the climate change problem. (This is not controversial to any thinking person.)
The sentiment I sarcastically expressed IS THE REPUBLICAN POSITION. Very clearly stated by JD Vance and many others on that side.
NOW, YOU bring up the irrelevant point that CURRENTLY the US doesn't contribute significantly to INCREASING the population.
Never mind that 8 billion people is already too many for a sustainable and equitable society.
Just WHAT THE F**K do you think will happen when not only abortion is inaccessible, but even contraception, as many JD Vance types want? Do you think the US will continue to have a negligible contribution to over-population?
Sorry, I really didn't expect to have to spell my point out to this level of detail. But it does directly follow from the topic, which is climate change, which indeed is exacerbated by over-population, which IN TURN will be further exacerbated by the US adopting Republican attitudes towards women: "Real American Women must birth babies! The more, the better!"
womanofthehills
(9,095 posts)And we are exporting our gas to Asia. We do what we can do - I have solar panels & a passive solar house. I do have a propane stove though.
The American fracking boom has transformed the United States into the worlds largest gas producer and exporter. At the same time, the rest of the world has begun using ever more gas in power plants, factories and homes partly to move away from dirtier fuels like coal. Demand is particularly growing in China, India and fast-industrializing Southeast Asian countries.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/13/climate/mexico-natural-gas-biden.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
Mysterian
(4,992 posts)We have technology but we use it to destroy our only home. Thanks to republicans and other idiots, nothing effective will be done about climate change and billions will suffer and die.
Elessar Zappa
(15,095 posts)Adapting to the coming conditions as best we can. Of course we should keep trying to prevent additional heating but Im afraid that its too late.
JCMach1
(27,826 posts)WarGamer
(14,071 posts)But we also can't do anything.
That pooch has done been screwed.
No competent expert thinks CC can be arrested or slowed meaningfully.
Prepare for palm trees in Antarctica by 2100.