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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThoughts about the upcoming debate
Please forgive some stream-of-consciousness rambling. I just want to get these thoughts down and out of my racing mind. 😞
We really will not know where the presidential race is going until after the debate.
At the last debate, Trump was terrible, but Biden was worse.
Joe was never great in debates anyway. But he seemed tired and slow-footed at his last debate with Trump.
If ever there was potential for an October surprise, this is the year. I have a feeling that Trumps opponents are holding information in reserve. We could have a release the Kraken moment.
There is a good chance Trump will make an ass of himself at the upcoming debate. He has been so bizarre and rambling lately that he might even implode. He is not the man he was in 2016 or 2020.
Harris was a skilled prosecutor in California and a force of nature in Senate hearings. So, she ought to do well.
But anything can happen in live debates.
What do you folks think?
pat_k
(10,253 posts)How to Beat Trump in a Debate
Unprepared and weak-willed opponents continue to play right into his hands.
By Mehdi Hasan
February 16, 2023
Donald Trump is probably unaware that hes an avid practitioner of a debating method known among philosophers and rhetoricians as the Gish Gallop. Its aim is simple: to defeat ones opponent by burying them in a torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments. Trump owes much of his political success to this tacticand to the fact that so few people know how to beat it. Although his 2024 campaign has been fairly quiet so far, we can expect to hear a lot more Gish Galloping in the coming months.
Lets take as an example the first televised presidential debate of the 2020 election campaign. The Fox News host Chris Wallace invited Trump to deliver a two-minute statement. And he was off:
snip
Trumps statement was the oratorical equivalent of the media-management approach famously summed up by Trumps former strategist Steve Bannonflood the zone with shit.
As one pithy tweetnow known as Brandolinis lawput it, The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it. The Gish Gallopers entire strategy rests on exploiting this advantage. By the time youve begun preparing your rebuttal of the Gallopers first lie, theyve rattled off another dozen. They want to trick the audience into believing that the facts and the evidence are on their side. (They have so many examples!) The technique is based on delivery over depth. Some call it proof by verbosity.
. . .
The article goes on to provide ways to deal with a gish galloper. I'm sure she'll be prepared for it. I'll be watching for the techniques.
Paywall-free link
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/donald-trump-debate-strategy-gish-gallop/673061/?gift=CiksPDoBurvFhUHnw_O61nOv2FePkuP8hFxKtW8dwfI&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
TheGreatConspiracy
(23 posts)Trump has a thin skin and could lose his cool if pushed.
pat_k
(10,253 posts)is a nice example of selecting one thing to expose idiocy/mock.
And I'm sure she can count on DT to provide many such openings.
Let me tell you what actually whips up fears of Islam. Let me take it from the top: 9/11; the London Underground bombings; Madrid; Mumbai; Mali; Bali; northern Nigeria; Sudan; Afghanistan; Saudi Arabia; Iran; Yemen; Pakistan; death for apostasy; death for blasphemy; death for adultery; death for homosexuality; gender segregation; gender discrimination; unequal testimony between men and women in legal proceedings; child marriage; amputations; beheadings; imprisonment for being raped; anti-Semitism; burqas; execution for this, that, and the other This is what causes fear of Islam. It is not me; it is not my colleagues on this side It is the actions of Muslims that are causing fear of Islam. That is the real world. That is where we actually live. Then well be told this is just the extreme fringe of Islam. Well, let me have a look at Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam
She Galloped on in this vein for several more minutes, piling one example of evil Muslims upon the next, and not stopping to expand or elaborate.
There was no way I could address all of the supposed examples she cited to justify fear of Islam; she listed 33 items in less than two minutesabout one every four seconds.
This was no nuanced discussion about the problems of Islamist extremism. No, this was a screed that sought to taint all of Islam, and all Muslimspresumably myself includedas aiders and abetters of terrorism. Any effort I might make to draw distinctions and unpick some complex realities from this fabric of bigotry would be doomed. It would have taken several minutes, if not my entire allotted time. It also would have put me on the defensive, when the key to winning any argument is to put your opponent on the back foot. So, instead, I chose to zero in on the most ludicrous assertion: that Saudi Arabia was the birthplace of Islam.
Just on a factual point, I responded, you said that Islam was born in Saudi Arabia. Islam was born in 610 A.D. Saudi Arabia was born in 1932 A.D. So you were only 1,322 years off! Not bad.
By mocking and debunking that particular claim, I poured doubt on the rest of themand made my opponent look foolish in the process.
dpibel
(3,096 posts)That's A LOT to worry about!!
Quick question about your first bullet point: Do you really think that the current format debates actually decide the direction of elections?
patricia92243
(12,780 posts)Me - before I knew anything about politics, my sister, my niece, and several friends.
regnaD kciN
(26,434 posts)
which is what happened to Biden in June.
A normal debate without a major faux pas is usually long-forgotten by the time the election rolls around.
In this case, we know that Trump will do his usual Gish Gallop of lies. The question will be, can Kamala find a way to effectively call them out early on, so that she can defuse his act right from the start.
TheGreatConspiracy
(23 posts)I think this next debate will have people looking at Trump and wondering what's wrong with him. They would have done it during the previous one, but viewers were shocked by Biden's performancenand focused on him.
RandySF
(66,225 posts)Too nervous.
applegrove
(121,537 posts)ideas and arguments for her to be a great President.
duncang
(2,758 posts)How much sane washing the media will do for tfg and how hard will the media try to find any fault in what VP Harris says.
Im already expecting faux news to get to VP Harriss big fault during the debate. What she wore. Even if tfg wore an actual clown suit they will say he looks presidential.
Im also sure the morning local news will sane wash it like they have been doing it for awhile.
I bring up local morning news a lot. But Im sure theres a lot of people who just watch the morning news for weather then go to work. I dont know how many people it would reach but think it might change a lot of the undecided or low info.
raccoon
(31,351 posts)will find SOMETHING about Kamala to go on and on about.
Something that doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but they'll still make a big fat flapping deal about it.
betsuni
(27,064 posts)What information? Conspiracy theories, imaginary scandals? What?
TheGreatConspiracy
(23 posts)I think there's at least a 50/50 chance that the DOJ and intelligence agencies are withholding some information about Trump to shield "sources and methods."' IF that's the case, then the calculation could change if he moved ahead in the polls.