That 737 was "owned and operated by Eastern Air Express". That was not Trump or Vance's people flying the plane, it was Eastern Air Express aircrew.

This makes it clear the pilots did violate heavily restricted airspace:

“Eastern Express 917, I have a phone number I need you to take down… I need you to call when you get down on the ground in reference to a possible pilot deviation,” the air traffic controller can be heard telling the crew of Vance’s jet in the audio clip @thenewarea51 posted. Additional air traffic control audio subsequently surfaced where the instruction “make a left” can also be heard...

He IS going to face enforcement action from the FAA. The pilot in command would know that he is risking his career to pull a stunt like this intentionally. An Airline Transport Pilot license (ATP) requires a minimum of 2500 flight hours and is a mandatory requirement for this category of aircraft. He could lose everything over this, his ATP, possibly his pension, fines, temporarily or permanently grounded from flying of any type, including small general aviation aircraft. He would have to be incredibly stupid to pull a stunt like this just because there was a senator in back telling him it's ok.

To be clear, I totally believe that Trump/Vance's people are arrogant enough to ask the pilots to do this. They would do this thinking they have the juice to get away with it, but knowing that if they don't, it's the aircrew that takes the fall not them.

Having come close to earning my private pilots license my junior year of high school before I ran out of money, I have a tough time believing any professional pilots would pull this stunt. To emphasize this: they were professional ATPs before this flight, during this flight and would expect to continue this career path after this flight. They were Eastern Air Express employees, not campaign employees, so this gig would be temporary. Whatever level of enforcement the FAA chooses will be on the aircrews record forever.

I guess we will know for sure if the campaign puts out flyby video....

Certificate action used to be a career ender, now not so much with the current pilot shortage, but overflying that particular prohibited area reaches far beyond the FAA and the crew will go through some things.

While I pointed out my amateur status in the field, I failed to consider just how outdated my knowledge actually is. My failed attempt to get my private pilots license was in 1983! These days I'm just an MSFS keyboard warrior and as such, I routinely violate any damn airspace I please. FAA who???

In my other reply to you, I mentioned I fly MS Flight Simulator. I have to confess that I'm petty enough to have flown a Kodiak 100 doing 2 AM traffic pattern work out of PBI rwy 10R just so I can be low and slow over Mar A Lago at high power settings late at night....

Nothing like a noisy as hell turbo prop at takeoff power late at night to piss off the neighbors!

when it occurs over tightly controlled/restricted airspace. Let's say on the outside, way outside chance the campaign/aircraft owner/PIC had previously requested and/or got approved permission to do such a flyby and ATC still, for whatever reason , directed the flight to go elsewhere with out granting permission for whatever reason ATC had, it's still a BIG deal. No matter what, even if permission was previously granted, the ATC controllers at the time have the last word. If you have issue with that as a PIC you follow their instructions then take it up with the FAA when you land. You NEVER ignore the instructions of ATC unless you positively know you are in a dangerous situation and then you will have an opportunity to defend your refusal when after you land. You must determine on your own that the instructions from ATC would've put your aircraft and/or another aircraft and/or the public in general in eminent danger.

It would not at all surprise me to find that the crew on that flight were chosen according to their specific compatibility with party dogma and executive privileges as applied to the candidate and his staff. Such was the case under Shrub's regime, and became executive practice among leading conservatives during the rise of the Tea Party madness as a 'security' measure.

(one of my favorite cartoons as a kid lmao)

I am back flying after a 20+ year gap raising my kid…ie, back to basics after having an ATP. No way, no how would I, or any other pilot I know risk my ability to fly, let alone the ability to earn a living flying, for somebody else’s whim or wish.

In reference to the pilot shortage…the crew flying Eastern Express 917, while perhaps “qualified” is an example of how, in my opinion, our rating requirements do not meet the complexity of the current flying environment.

Pilots do not “know” their airplane like they used to. Automation on the flight deck (FMC) has led to crews being versed in emergency procedures, but under educated on WHY the procedure. Airspace definitions are more complicated than when I flew. Pilot training takes $$$ and many companies skimp, meaning only minimum required, on the training to make the $$$. It puts young pilots in a bad position.

Looks like Donny & JD are getting the professionals they pay for. Just makes me sad for the entire industry.

Gobsmacked.

or planning on leaving for some other reason.

If someone padded his pocket, he might not care about losing his job.

It wasnt unsafe, just not allowed.

Regional pilots dont make that much, and often get few benefits. They may have enough and were going to leave the job anyway.

When an aircraft enters prohibited airspace, no one knows for a certainty that they're not seeing the next 9/11.

I doubt that DC is festooned with antiaircraft ordnance these days, but you never know.

But the chances of the military shooting at that plane was near zero.

They didnt even bother to scramble a fighter.

They didnt perceive a risk, especially since the pilot was talking with the tower.

...the secret service has shoulder launched stingers on the roof of the White House. Wouldn't surprise me to find out they are on roof tops in a perimeter around the White House as well to add some depth to the defense.

“Eastern Express 917, I have a phone number I need you to take down… I need you to call when you get down on the ground in reference to a possible pilot deviation,”

Any time ATC gives you a phone number to call, that's when you know you've fucked up.

Obviously a stupid or gutless pilot taking orders from a VIP passenger. That airspace might be THE most controlled (and enforced) airspace in the US!

Anti-authority.

look at Arlington National Cemetery.

And the other countless disrespect for the USA and her people.

A purposeful display.

I'll bet if it headed towards the White House the protection there would come into play.

Or a teensy tap on the wrist.

if it was intentional. He, not Vance, will take the fall if Vance directed him to do it. It's a potential career-killer, though, and flying into restricted airspace is something you can't get away with. But this was a charter, not Vance's personal aircraft, so I'd be surprised if it was done intentionally - pilots sometimes violate restricted airspace accidentally if they aren't familiar with the area.

Specifically, this one.

whether it's designated restricted or prohibited; and that airspace does get violated, but rarely intentionally. See post #15.

Review the Standard Instrument Departure (SID) in this case The AMEEE ONE departure which clearly states in the notes to avoid P-56 by turning as soon as practical from a takeoff heading of 007 to 331. It will be interesting to find out what the clearance was that ATC issued. Here’s the SID, I’m assuming they were flying area navigation (RNAV).

no matter which departure procedure they were using. See post #15 - seems like this departure gets screwed up on a fairly regular basis. I doubt very much that it would have been deliberate, no matter what the conspiracy theorists on this thread are suggesting. And everything is so close together out there that if they wanted a snazzy campaign photo they could have gotten one without an intentional airspace incursion, a pilot's career-killer.

Sort of like it should have been a career ender for tfg to attempt to overthrow the US government. Obviously, not a conspiracy theory. Fact.

If the pilot entered prohibited airspace he will have a problem. If he did it intentionally (and I think that's unlikely; if you look at the charts posted elsewhere in this thread you can see that the departure from DCA is unusual and tricky; in fact, it is fairly regularly invaded along the west edge if they don't turn left soon enough), he will have a big problem, regardless of who his passenger might be. No pilot is going to jeopardize his career for the sake of a charter flight.

all of them. We need to VOTE in record numbers to stop these "domestic terrorists".

They have no respect for the country or Americans.

"The aircraft, which is currently wrapped in Trump-Vance campaign livery and is also sometimes referred to as “Trump Force Two,” was using the callsign BBQ917 at the time."

This is Arlington natl cemetery round 2. Do whatever is necessary to create imagery to make Trump look presidential.

More like, make him seem god-like, greater than life, awe-inspiring, who knows what. But not presidential - presidents don't buzz the Washington Monument trying to look cool.

That’s highly sensitive airspace. Could’ve set off a ‘robust’ response - and so close to 9/11 to boot. If this pans out, the corporate media can’t ignore it. We’ll see.

After all, what's worse? A little flight that hurt nobody or someone having the gall to drink a shake with a straw. I think we know our answer.

to go ho hum, then do it again with harmful intent-
these rw extremistes will stop at nothing until they get what they want.
gotv

There is an immediate left turn required when taking off on runway 1. These guys turned too little and too late and penetrated the western boundary of the P56 prohibited area.

Somebody out of DCA does this probably around once per week. The procedure requires mental preparation and preflight briefing between the pilots because it is an unusual thing to do. My guess is that these pilots have been flying in and out of DCA a LOT during the campaign and they got complacent and sloppy.

At the very least they will get a written reprimand from the FAA, which will make it harder for them to get their next flying job. Worst case, they could end up with a suspended license, required retraining and some hefty fines.

I very much doubt they did it on purpose.

I'll bet anything that somebody was filming campaign footage from the ground.

Believe what you want.

I'm just angry that Trump team keeps getting away with outrageous behavior. They keep pushing outside normal, decent behavior and they get away with it.

Maybe this was pilot error but I'm suspicious because of all of Trump's previous bad behavior. A photo or video of that Trump plane flying next to the monuments is exactly the kind of crap Trump pulls. It literally scares me because it's so fascist and authoritarian. It really makes me mad.

No pilot is going to risk his ATP certificate and his career by deliberately entering prohibited airspace. The airspace in the DC area is very congested and pilots who are unfamiliar with it do enter the airspace accidentally. The pilot will have to report it but it's very likely to have been inadvertent.

That from a real pilot apparently. Interesting though that it does happen that much.

I'm kinda wondering how much total experience the pilots had. A friend of mine was a "check out" pilot for a commuter airline. I think some airlines call it an "instructor pilot". He tended to focus on flying with new FO's alot. He was old school, and had done alot of VFR flying over the years before landing a commuter airline job. He was always struck by how unaware the young pilots were of ground references. They had mostly come through some pilot training school where very soon they were always flying IFR They were all about vectors and such, but it meant little to them in terms of land references. On more than one occasion he asked an FO (after he took command of the aircraft), "okay, look out the window and tell me where they just vectored us to go?" To them, a vector was a number on the instrument panel, not a reference to anything outside the aircraft.

There are not one but TWO other regional international airports that could be expanded to take some of the pressure off of DCA. Maybe the Silver Line connection to Dulles will help, I don't know. Probably not though, because the real problem is lack of political will on the part of Congress. Rant over.

DC-9 driver?

I retired a couple years ago off the A320, but kept the handle for old times sake.

Basically, updating courseware from the OEM data. I think the bosses want to threaten me with an A320 type rating, but I kind of doubt they want to cough up the 50K to do so….lol.

Did you get the water salute on your last ride?

So at least I got that going for me

IIRC, the original manuals for the bus that we used in 1988 were in French. The initial translations were…interesting.

Vance and his shit pilot

That buzzed my street the previous day.

..... these arrogant assho*es>

sill can't fly right .. hold my beer, watcj this

Bullshit.

In this airspace were immediately escorted bt military jets and subject to being shot down if they got close to the WH.

I didn't go into the article, but the OP here didn't mention military jets. So close to 911, this was so extremely stupid, arrogant, and so trump like. Yes, the pilots will pay the price.. tho everyone got off scotfree after assaulting the cemetery and the worker. So who knows. And if of this shows up in campaign pics, Trump ought to be charged, too.

It's a short clip.

Maybe the Pilot was dazzled by Vance's charisma?

"I'm JD Vance. I'm running for Vice President"

"How long have you been a pilot?"

"Ok, Good."

"Wanna Doughnut?"

Sounds like something he’d do….

Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder to be pulled. It would be interesting to find out if the aircraft leveled out and rolled right to get that perfect picture. Likewise, it would be really interesting to hear the crew interactions in the flight deck.

Especially if someone padded his (assuming a he) pocket to pull the stunt.

Pilots for these regional airlines often get paid little in comparrison to main fleet pilots, and have few benefits. A pension would be a stretch.

So if he was about to retire anyway, and was offered a deal, he just might not have much to lose.

We will know when pics appear. And they will.

I'm pretty sure every pilot who flies in that area is aware of that prohibited zone. It's not an optional thing.

Not from tourists fumbling with their cell phones. Not shaky, like the camera was on a good tripod. Maybe recording the approach of the plane from a distance before a random observer would notice anything unusual. Maybe even taken from multiple camera angles.

Seems like a pretty serious infraction....

but tsf and his sf in training sure seem to be having issues with planes and pilots lately. Maybe messages from the universe.

After 9/11, I'd think that any airspace incursion that close to the White House would be extremely frowned upon.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight