General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLest we get too carried away with ourselves in praising Dick Cheney . . .
. . . I think we might do well to remember that Cheney's "unitary executive" theory did a lot to pave the way for Trump's excesses!
Carlitos Brigante
(26,713 posts)PJMcK
(22,527 posts)Ocelot II
(119,188 posts)But we are well aware that while the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend, he can be a useful temporary ally, kind of like Stalin vs. Hitler. His endorsement might embolden other, somewhat less problematic GOPers to break from Trump and endorse Harris.
hlthe2b
(104,913 posts)..and my own (personal experience-based admonishment dating back prior to his VP days) that he was among the most evil VP's we (hopefully) will ever see.
Maybe there are some younger, newer posters unaware of who Dick really was/is, but I am not seeing it.
Still, I'll take his vote--and his driving Trump absolutely crazy the past 24 hours.
stopdiggin
(12,384 posts)and directed more or less specifically at this one action. I've seen little that looks warm cuddlies or welcome arms.
servermsh
(1,267 posts)I'm only celebrating this for its political value. For its value in furher splitting the Republican party.
All conservative Republican voters for the last 40 years are responsible for bringing us to this point. But part of our strategy should be putting pressure on the Republican party to split. It can happen. If we can beat Trump, he might very well take part of the party with him. That would be good for us, and for everyone.
arlyellowdog
(1,141 posts)Just kind kind of amazed, and frankly pissed, that they kept him alive this long.
Dennis Donovan
(22,007 posts)Estimates of the casualties from the Iraq War (beginning with the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the ensuing occupation and insurgency and civil war) have come in several forms, and those estimates of different types of Iraq War casualties vary greatly.
Estimating war-related deaths poses many challenges. Experts distinguish between population-based studies, which extrapolate from random samples of the population, and body counts, which tally reported deaths and likely significantly underestimate casualties. Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 186,901 210,296 violent civilian deaths in their table. All estimates of Iraq War casualties are disputed.
/snip
Some key statistics on this 20th anniversary of the wars beginning.
March 20, 2023, 12:47 PM EDT
By Nicholas Anastacio and Mark Murray
Monday marks the 20th anniversary of the start of the Iraq war, which began on March 20, 2003.
Here are some key statistics on the war and its aftermath:
$728 billion: The Defense Departments estimate of how much the U.S. spent directly on the war in Iraq from the 2003 through 2012 fiscal years (the official withdrawal happened at the end of 2011, a few months into the 2012 fiscal year).
$1.6 trillion: The estimated amount spent combined on the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria from fiscal years 2001 through 2021.
4,492: The number of U.S. servicemembers killed in Iraq.
32,292: The number of U.S. servicemembers wounded in Iraq.
Approximately 200,000: The number of Iraqi civilians killed in the war.
/snip
So, his support of VP Harris is the least he can do given the amount of blood on his hands...
PJMcK
(22,527 posts)We need every single one!
In this election, there are plenty of people who will vote against Trump. The Cheneys, Judge Luttig and others like them are not becoming Democrats. They want the country to be rid of Trump. They realize that not voting is not effective enough. Theyll proactively vote for VP Harris. If VP Harris wins, theyll be criticizing her by February 2025. So what? Well have President Harris.
catbyte
(35,305 posts)I figure if Churchill and Stalin could get along long enough to defeat the Nazis, we can work with Cheney until November 5 to defeat the American Nazi Party.
onecaliberal
(35,054 posts)gab13by13
(23,929 posts)Cant even wait until after the election.
NNadir
(34,076 posts)..."If Hitler invaded Hell, I should like to say something nice about the devil."
HAB911
(9,231 posts)GoreWon2000
(752 posts)No one should ever forget that Cheney was a willing participant in the bushthief's all out assault on American democracy in Florida in 2000. Now he want's to attack the orange turd for using the election stealing road map that Cheney and bushthief created in Florida in 2000? Hypocrisy at its worst. There would be no orange turd without the bushthief/Cheney all out assault on American democracy in Florida in 2000.
Ocelot II
(119,188 posts)But Cheney's endorsement is useful, just like Stalin's alliance against Hitler was useful.
GoreWon2000
(752 posts)Cheney was a willing participant in the bushthief/Florida 2000 all out assault on American democracy. Now Cheney is attacking the orange turd for the same anti-democracy behavior. Cheney's trying to play both sides of the issue and that's just not possible. It seems that there are people on DU who do need to be reminded about bushthief/Florida 2000.
Considering how the Cold War started right after WW II, I don't think dictator Stalin was so useful either in the long run. It wound up costing our country trillions in defense spending that could've been put to better use helping middle and low income families in our own country..
Ocelot II
(119,188 posts)Berlin fell to the USSR in 1945, resulting in Germany's unconditional surrender - Whom do you think Hitler was hiding in his bunker from? If Hitler hadn't been defeated in WWII we probably wouldn't even be having a pointless discussion about how defense spending should have been reallocated to the homeless.
GoreWon2000
(752 posts)The orange turd is openly using the bushthief Florida 2000 election theft road map. It would be the height of hypocrisy for the bushthief to attack the orange turd for using his anti democracy election theft road map. Too many people remember Florida 2000.
Ocelot II
(119,188 posts)I also think Cheney's endorsement will help encourage other GOPers to break ranks with Trump, and if that helps Harris get elected I'll gladly accept it. It doesn't absolve Cheney of anything but I'm not too pure for a little realpolitik, and I'm glad Harris isn't either.
GoreWon2000
(752 posts)Florida 2000 continues to be swept under the rug and our country continues to pay the price for it. I'm not and never will be a fan of the blatant hypocrisy Cheney is trying to get away with. Every previous generation of Americans fought and died for the voting rights that bushthief and Cheney took away in Florida in 2000. I'll never forget that.
Ocelot II
(119,188 posts)We're using him. I don't see a problem with that.
GoreWon2000
(752 posts)The thief who stole the 2000 election in Florida by throwing out enough votes of dems to change the outcome of that election now all of a sudden opposing the orange turd for using the same exact anti democracy behavior in 2024? I don't think so. Too many people remember Florida 2000 and bushthief's anti democracy behavior.
Ocelot II
(119,188 posts)maybe you won't vote for Harris on account of all that hypocrisy?
GoreWon2000
(752 posts)15 years to be exact. I know the ugly truth about Florida 2000 all too well. No one should ever forget Florida 2000. It's why our country is now on the verge of a fascist dictatorship. I'll be voting for V.P. Harris in a last ditch attempt to save American democracy for future generations and in memory of every previous generation who fought and died to give our generation the gift of democracy.
Martin Eden
(13,216 posts)But winning this election supercedes all else.
mucholderthandirt
(780 posts)obamanut2012
(27,383 posts)Ocelot II
(119,188 posts)but their endorsements might be a permission for other GOPers to break ranks with Trump.
anamnua
(1,273 posts)to get rid of the devil.
betsuni
(27,064 posts)ProfessorGAC
(68,359 posts)Not sure what you're talking about.
I've seen no posts welcoming Cheney, beyond his public statement that he considers TFG a danger.
I've seen nothing suggesting "all is forgiven" or that we now are ok with him.
Your post might resonate more if you provided examples of the very thing you're cautioning against.
duncang
(2,758 posts)Some of the republicans who speak out about him. After hes gone will they still support some of the same policies and cuts republicans have been going after for a long time? Will the republicans who have kept pretty quiet get a pass from them or their support? Almost all the republicans in congress wanted tfg to stay in.
elocs
(22,967 posts)What Cheney did in the past is done and pales in comparison with what is happening right now in this election.
snot
(10,649 posts)as shorthand for an epitome of human evil.
If he ever endorsed me for anything, I'd feel compelled to do a lot of internal, moral soul-searching.
struggle4progress
(119,400 posts)Our trails might be rough until early November so could be a good idea to keep watching ahead