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German Foreign Office responds to Trump (Original Post) DJ Synikus Makisimus Sep 12 OP
I remember hearing 45 say that Sanity Claws Sep 12 #1
Same here! Pacifist Patriot Sep 12 #2
It's a fact check on both Trump *and* Harris krkaufman Sep 12 #11
But he heard it on television!!!! n/t royable Sep 12 #3
more specifically "the people on television" prodigitalson Sep 12 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 12 #30
As soon as I heard that in the debate..... AZ8theist Sep 12 #8
"People on television say" birdographer Sep 12 #18
Yup. GB_RN Sep 12 #21
Some guy, birdographer Sep 12 #23
lol. Yes I have! GB_RN Sep 12 #24
It was Cohen. Amaryllis Sep 12 #32
Check out "Life Accordion to Trump" -- it's L to the O to the L! OMGWTF Sep 13 #52
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 13 #55
Faux News. n/t iluvtennis Sep 13 #50
Wunderbar DoBW Sep 12 #4
So shamelessly stupid. Tillerson summed him up 8 years ago. Evolve Dammit Sep 12 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 12 #31
Everyone Orange Julius put in was either bent on destroying the agency they were appointed to, or incompetent. Evolve Dammit Sep 12 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 12 #36
Pisses me off that 50% don't vote. Period. And 15?% of those that do are still UNDECIDED?? WTF is wrong with them?? Evolve Dammit Sep 12 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 12 #41
Don't get me going on incessant drug ads and predatory lending that other countries don' endure! Evolve Dammit Sep 12 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 13 #45
That's one of them! Evolve Dammit Sep 13 #49
Honest question: Why do you self-delete so much? Polybius Sep 12 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 13 #46
Thank you for answering Polybius Sep 13 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 13 #48
Drumpf may be investigated for treason against the fatherland. Marcuse Sep 12 #6
Draft dodging runs deep in that family paleotn Sep 12 #13
Bavaria. Check out Lawrence O'Donnell's segment on the Drumpf family history. Grandfather deported. Evolve Dammit Sep 12 #35
This info from the foreign office moniss Sep 12 #9
Ridicule the fool malaise Sep 12 #10
Germany features one of the worst carbon intensities in Europe. NNadir Sep 12 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author Hiawatha Pete Sep 13 #53
Well their former chancellor and architect of the nuclear phase out... NNadir Sep 13 #54
Note to the Germsn Foreign Office---Don't bother. Warpy Sep 12 #14
This made me blurt out a laugh. Zzzzzzzzzing! ffr Sep 12 #15
Danke Deutschland. Gut gesagt. wnylib Sep 12 #16
Sehr gut! notemason Sep 12 #19
Ha! Wild blueberry Sep 12 #17
Love that last line! DinahMoeHum Sep 12 #20
Kick! Hekate Sep 12 #22
Ach du Lieber! COL Mustard Sep 12 #25
To translate from the German to English: "Hey stupid. Even we know everything you say is a lie". Wonder Why Sep 12 #26
I Swear His Only "Peers" and Contemporaries in Terms of Self Injuries to Feet, "Shooting Your Eye Out," and Similar The Roux Comes First Sep 12 #27
Who knew the German Foreign Office has a sense of humor? TomSlick Sep 12 #28
Funny but Elessar Zappa Sep 12 #29
Whereas that might make economic sense, you can't disregard geography or recent history DFW Sep 12 #39
Thank you soandso Sep 13 #44
And then consider the risk of it being targeted by a hostile nation mahina Sep 13 #51
I live in Germany and my wife is German. We have always spoken German together since we met 50 years ago. DFW Sep 12 #33
Nevertheless, would it be impolitic or fair for an American to use... NNadir Sep 14 #57
For all their fancy labels DFW Sep 14 #58
Thanks for responding to that. I finally found the electricity maps -- progree Sep 15 #60
Interesting if true asm128 Sep 14 #59
he's a worldwide disgrace and laughingstock. nt ecstatic Sep 12 #38
Ja, das is sehr lustig kwolf68 Sep 12 #40
Eating cats and dogs may be bad, but hey, things could be wurst. nt. jk. JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 13 #56

krkaufman

(13,696 posts)
11. It's a fact check on both Trump *and* Harris
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 03:16 PM
Sep 12

Last edited Thu Sep 12, 2024, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

PS: We also don’t eat cats and dogs.


Harris: “Our allies are laughing at you (at Trump).”
Fact check: True

Response to prodigitalson (Reply #7)

AZ8theist

(6,445 posts)
8. As soon as I heard that in the debate.....
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 03:02 PM
Sep 12

....My first thought was "What THE FUCK TV shows are you watching???????????"

GB_RN

(3,120 posts)
21. Yup.
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 04:48 PM
Sep 12

Another sure sign he’s lying is when he does that whole “air accordion” thing with his hands.

Damned if he doesn’t look extra fucking “stoopid” doing that.

birdographer

(2,527 posts)
23. Some guy,
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 04:51 PM
Sep 12

might have been Scaramucci? said that the wider his hands when he does that, the bigger the lie. Have you seen the videos where a person put an actual accordion in his hands?

GB_RN

(3,120 posts)
24. lol. Yes I have!
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 04:55 PM
Sep 12

And with the accordion noises! Damn those are funny.

I want to say that it was Michael Cohen who made that statement about Cantaloupe Caligula the Corpulent and his accordion hands.

OMGWTF

(4,405 posts)
52. Check out "Life Accordion to Trump" -- it's L to the O to the L!
Fri Sep 13, 2024, 10:45 AM
Sep 13


Have I told you lately how much I fking hate Rethuglicans?

Response to birdographer (Reply #18)

Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #5)

Evolve Dammit

(18,448 posts)
34. Everyone Orange Julius put in was either bent on destroying the agency they were appointed to, or incompetent.
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 07:51 PM
Sep 12

Tillerson having received the medal from Putin personally, would fall in the latter minimally. All by design. Pruitt, Carson, DeJoy, DeVoss, and help me here, who was the asshole from TX put in charge of NRC?? with zero experience in nuclear energy. And the oil and gas person at BLM??? So much is forgotten, but damage done and nothing to compare with what would come next.

Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #34)

Evolve Dammit

(18,448 posts)
37. Pisses me off that 50% don't vote. Period. And 15?% of those that do are still UNDECIDED?? WTF is wrong with them??
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 08:00 PM
Sep 12

Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #37)

Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #42)

Polybius

(17,583 posts)
43. Honest question: Why do you self-delete so much?
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 09:25 PM
Sep 12

I'm not trying to be a smart, but it's a question that I've always wondered about. You self-delete several hundred times a year. In fact, when I see that you responded to a thread, 9 out of 10 times it's self-deleted.

You are a great poster with really cool cool content. So why do it so much?

Response to Polybius (Reply #43)

Polybius

(17,583 posts)
47. Thank you for answering
Fri Sep 13, 2024, 12:34 AM
Sep 13

I'm so glad that you didn't get offended by the question. It truly makes sense now.

A lot of times, I write something and then immediately regret it, thinking it may start a flame war. The best thing to do wound be to self-delete.

Response to Polybius (Reply #47)

Marcuse

(7,983 posts)
6. Drumpf may be investigated for treason against the fatherland.
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 02:54 PM
Sep 12

His family was German but somehow turned American.

moniss

(5,515 posts)
9. This info from the foreign office
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 03:03 PM
Sep 12

has been discussed for the last few years on this site as well as others and in environmental publications and articles published about the German success in this area of energy production. In other words it is known fact to the people who pay attention to that area of Europe and their efforts regarding renewables. But it is not likely anybody in the world should expect anything but lies to fall from the lips of the Orange Ruski and JD "Cushions" Vance.

NNadir

(34,532 posts)
12. Germany features one of the worst carbon intensities in Europe.
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 03:23 PM
Sep 12

They shut fully operational nuclear plants and replaced them with coal.

"By 2038" is simply an unconscionable announcement that the government there is content to dump fossil fuel waste and dump responsibility for cleaning up the mess, and worse, living with the mess, on future generations.

Nobody on the planet can take Donold Trump seriously, particularly because like the Germans, he is confused about issues in energy and the environment. Saying that Donold Trump is a moron however, does not indicate that German energy policy is ingenious. It isn't. It is a crime against future generations.

Response to NNadir (Reply #12)

NNadir

(34,532 posts)
54. Well their former chancellor and architect of the nuclear phase out...
Fri Sep 13, 2024, 11:36 AM
Sep 13

Gerhard Schroeder works for Putin's Gazprom. He has a huge salary there. Germany, if you really think about it, financed the Ukraine war.

Warpy

(113,130 posts)
14. Note to the Germsn Foreign Office---Don't bother.
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 03:26 PM
Sep 12

What was said about that man as long as 50 years ago is "I wouldn't believe anything out of his mourth if you notarized his tongue."

He is a liar, a cheat, and an atrociously bad businessman. He was even a worse president, costing this country a great deal at home and abroad, including over a million citizens due to his opinion that a deadly virus was a hoax because it made him look bad.

We haven't forgotten any of that. Only the stupid and profoundly ignorant are still going to try to vote that thing back into office and I sincerely hope they are outnumbered by a large enough margin that he leaves this country to avoid prosecution and is never heard from again.

The Roux Comes First

(1,539 posts)
27. I Swear His Only "Peers" and Contemporaries in Terms of Self Injuries to Feet, "Shooting Your Eye Out," and Similar
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 05:08 PM
Sep 12

Are truly clownish cartoon figures. And Wile E. Coyote is a hell of a lot more of an entertainer than this pitiful low-life.

The very definition of not being able to get out of your own way! Of course that 48"+ waist doesn't help. Not to mention his remarkably inept management of appendages.

Elessar Zappa

(15,656 posts)
29. Funny but
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 06:27 PM
Sep 12

they shouldn’t be shutting down nuclear plants, they should be building more, as should every country that can.

DFW

(56,413 posts)
39. Whereas that might make economic sense, you can't disregard geography or recent history
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 08:15 PM
Sep 12

Three mile Island made big headlines here in 1979.

In 1986, Chernobyl sent a radioactive cloud over us (and we're on the Dutch border) so big that the ground set off Geiger counters for over a year later, and we couldn't even eat mushrooms from the nearby woods for over a year. Documentaries about how the area around Chernobyl is still too contaminated to live in appear regularly on German TV. Thyroid disorders, including cancer, spiked up hugely in the years following 1986, and both my wife and daughter needed theirs partially or completely surgically removed due to tumors. Fukushima just provided the icing on the cake. In theory, nuclear power should be safe. But human error, miscalculation, corner cutting by the construction companies to save money--no one will guarantee that all danger can be banned, and if there is a major disaster next door, 20 million people don't get a second chance. We are a population a quarter of the United States squeezed into a territory about the size of Texas. The people here have a "been there, done that" attitude that is not easily changed by verbal argument. I don't think that the assurances that Germany would want can be given with today's level of technology. To permit new nuclear power plants, Germany would want ironclad safety guarantees that today's level of technological advancement does not yet offer.

mahina

(18,891 posts)
51. And then consider the risk of it being targeted by a hostile nation
Fri Sep 13, 2024, 10:29 AM
Sep 13

As Russia has done in Ukraine.

DFW

(56,413 posts)
33. I live in Germany and my wife is German. We have always spoken German together since we met 50 years ago.
Thu Sep 12, 2024, 07:51 PM
Sep 12

People here are amazed about how Americans, both right and left, seem to know more about Germany than Germany does, especially those who have never lived here and don't speak German.

Some on the right suddenly think that they are building new coal-fired power plants, and some on the left still seem to think that education and health care are free.

No, they are NOT building new coal-fired power plants. NEIN. Really. Not even Fox Noise can make them change their minds on that.

And no, education and health care are not free here. Why do you think taxes hit the 50% level at $100k gross income here? Do you think that teachers and doctors work for no compensation and then panhandle on the streets after work to have money to eat? Do you think that schools and hospitals were built by construction companies donating their labor and material out of the charitable goodness of their hearts? Electricity and water are provided at no cost by city utility charities? Education and health insurance are financed in a completely different way than in the USA, but they are not free. Even in Germany, there are people who fall through the cracks and have neither. My wife was a German social worker. These people were her clients. They don't disappear in a puff of smoke just because DSA wants them to.

Quote #1: "I know I'm right! I read it on the internet!"--true quote from Abraham Lincoln.
Quote #2: "It ain't necessarily so."--George Gershwin from "Porgy and Bess."

One of the two is worth remembering. If unsure, here's a hint: it's not #1.

NNadir

(34,532 posts)
57. Nevertheless, would it be impolitic or fair for an American to use...
Sat Sep 14, 2024, 04:20 AM
Sep 14

...Destatis Statisches Bundesamnt to understand the results of current German energy policy and practices.

Presumably it is put forth by energy professionals in the German government. It is a publication of the German Federal Government, is it not, or am I mistaken?

Should not Americans be interested in other parts of the world, particularly those involving our shared resource, the planetary atmosphere?

To understand the how energy is used and the effects of energy production where I live, on the PJM grid in New Jersey, I am required to do some research, which I do, because how energy is produced in New Jersey, effectively on the PJM grid, effects not just New Jersey, but the entire world. This said, even though I live in New Jersey, I would not claim to know everything about New Jersey's energy policies, although I was pleased when the plan to build offshore wind here tanked for financial reasons, since I know it will do little more than entrench dependence on dangerous natural gas. I'm rather fond of wilderness, and I consider the benthic zone off the coast of New Jersey to be wilderness, not an industrial park.

I am very interested in extreme global heating now being observed worldwide and thus my own responsibility in the case. Extreme global heating is not "by 2030" or "by 2050." It's now.

The 2023 PJM Grid had a carbon intensity of 396 grams CO2/kWh, which frankly offends me and fills me with no small amount of guilt, but we're slightly - a tiny amount - below Germany at 400 grams CO2/kWh. What we do in New Jersey with respect to energy affects the whole world since climate gases are not arrested by our border with the Atlantic ocean. I'm hopeful that consideration of reopening the Three Mile Island reactor 1 will ameliorate to some small extent our terrible carbon intensity.





I have read, that RWE will stop burning lignite in 2030, with a few loopholes for "emergencies" that may arise. As a citizen of the planet, I'd rather they do it now, but it's beyond my control. I have also read in the energy news, that the cost of keeping the "reserve" coal plants in Germany ready for other emergencies, such as a long episode of dunkelflaute or an unfortunate shortage of the gas arising as happened in the recent adventures with Putin, is proving expensive.

True?

Maintaining a plant that is restricted from generating revenue unless there's an emergency, I would assume, is costly. I have understood, from this consideration, the need for redundancy in unreliable systems, why grids dependent on so called "renewable energy" have such high costs to consumers.

The question is not, to my mind, whether Germany is building coal plants, but rather whether they are operating the ones that they already have.

As for the new gas plants being planned in Germany, I do understand and deplore the marketing of these plants as being - at some long off date - capable of running on hydrogen. Hydrogen, of course, is overwhelmingly made on this planet, at a huge thermodynamic loss, from natural gas, oil, and coal, making this claim about so called "green" hydrogen an exercise in slick, almost Trumpian in its dishonesty, marketing. The hydrogen scam, a marketing shell game that makes things worse, not better, has disgusted me for many, many years:

A Giant Climate Lie: When they're selling hydrogen, what they're really selling is fossil fuels.

There's advertising, and then there's reality.

Donold Trump is an idiot, of course, with respect to issues in energy (and everything else); we all know that. Even acknowledging this, I'm not sure that the German foreign office is in the best position to point that out. Pot, kettle, and black, carbon black to be specific, and all that.

DFW

(56,413 posts)
58. For all their fancy labels
Sat Sep 14, 2024, 12:58 PM
Sep 14

Das Statistische Bundesamt, finds out what it finds, and then puts the best face on it (immerhin, ein Beamtenstaat), and the RWE, with its ties to Lindner and the FDP, is trusted by few outside the FDP, and is despised by environmentalists and old school (i.e. environmentalist) Greens. There are few left here that take anything they claim at face value. The American Republicans do not have a monopoly of corruption or deception. If they claimed they did, the RWE would probably join a class action suit for defamation.

The coal interests used to own NRW, where we live, and where most of the coal lies here in western Germany. The unions bowed down to them because they provided so many jobs, and now that those jobs are being phased out, a lot of traditional power balances are being juggled anew. No one here has any solution, and no one here seriously believes Germany will be powered exclusively by renewables by 2030, 2050 or even 2100. It would be an overtly cynical move (and, equally, a perfectly plausible one) that Germany will maintain its no-nukes stance all the while buying shortfall nuclear-prduced power from neighboring countries that still produce it in abundance.

Hydrogen would be ideal IF it could be reclaimed cheaply and cleanly with no "collateral damage," which probably means someone needs to find a way to effortlessly extract it from the rising seas in the next few weeks. Don't hold your breath.

progree

(11,463 posts)
60. Thanks for responding to that. I finally found the electricity maps --
Sun Sep 15, 2024, 11:01 AM
Sep 15

Europe
https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE

PJM
https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/US-MIDA-PJM

in case anyone reading the thread is interested in these and other regions as they are updated, and for the hourly, daily, weekly, and annual versions (on the left side panel near the bottom of the panel, click on one of the "Hourly Daily Weekly Yearly" buttons.

Interesting to see the boundaries of the various power pools like PJM and my MISO (Midcontinent Independent System Operator) and how they're doing.

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