I would argue it goes back to not prosecuting the America first republicans, runs through the McCarthy years. Nixon and treason with birth Vietnam, Agnew coverup and defense, Reagan and the treason with the hostages, Billy Barr covering up two treasonous escapades as a Cheney acolyte, Cheney and W lying about WMD, newt and mcturtle.

But fuck Cheney had his fingers in a lot of those pies.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's not that complicated. The Cheneys are enemies of trump, so for now we work with them as friends to get VP Harris elected.

For now.

afford to bite a helping hand at this point.

Fuck the trees and behold the forest.

Now is not the time for Democrats to be republican lite.

I don’t get it. Can’t understand her appearance in Wisconsin unless they are just trying to trigger TFG. I just can’t see her influencing voters. She accepted TFG’s behavior until Jan 6. She knew what he was doing before that date.

once Trump is out of the picture. Her political positions are just as appalling as her father's and Trump's, but her objection to Trump is that he's in it for himself alone. The Cheneys support a Project 2025 style of governance, with themselves at the head of it.

If they destroy Trump politically and get control of the party again, Cheney will run against Harris in 2028. If she won, she might find a place in her cabinet for Vance.

She got SMOKED in her home State in her last election.

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of the party. With Trump's influence gone, the establishment wing of the party will return to power

There IS NO party for Liz to go back to.

She is a neocon. Neocons believe in things like Government interventionism, American Hegemony, Israel support and spreading American forms of Democracy worldwide.

The current GOP Party... the voters... are now more isolationist and against the MIC spending.

The neocons unfortunately find more in common TODAY with the Democratic Party.

The POST-TRUMP GOP will smell the same but have a different Captain at the wheel.

Vance, Gabbard... DeSantis? Someone like that. More polished than Trump, with 2X the IQ but same core philosophy.

For Neocons, spreading democracy was a euphemism for expanding raw, unregulated capitalism in the world, sometimes through military conquest and related, lucrative government contracts.

The lunatic MAGAs, like Boebert and Green will fade away without Trump. The toxic masculinity of Hawley and even Vance will lose its appeal. The remnants might retain the party name of Republican, or might call themselves something else, like MAGA, without the Republican moniker.

A new conservative party will emerge, either with a new name or will stick with the Republican name. They will drop the overt racism and will seek out conservative minorities and women. They will favor a strong central government in the executive branch and will oppose social programs. Their "governance" will retain the appearance of democracy, but will favor corporations and the wealthy to the extent that they will control politics like a "benevolent" dictatorship.

Trump doesn't have any political positions except to help himself in any way possible. But the reich-wing corporate oiligarchs, evilgelicals, and techbros that support Trump certainly do have political positions, and any Republican at the national level will have to adopt most, if not all, of those positions, willingly or unwillingly.

The only difference between the corporate Republicans, who haven't supported Trump from the beginning, and the maga Republicans is that the corporate Republicans support democracy. At least the gerrymandered, disenfranchised, and suppressed democracy under which they have done so well for half a century. The maga Republicans do not support any real pretense to democracy if they aren't in control.

the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, but they can be a useful temporary ally, viz. Churchill and Stalin. “If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons," said Churchill when his alliance with Stalin was questioned. Same goes here.

We need all of the allies we can get right now. And right now, the Cheneys are allies.

it is about winning an election to save our democracy, and if you cannot understand that then you are an idiot.

for the life of the country. It may make for strange bedfellows but it is what is needed at this time. Most people know who the Cheneys are and if and when it is needed to remind the country of that, nobody is going to hesitate. I am surprised it is not the republicans writing this article not Charles Pierce.

reason that we have. He has been articulating the danger facing our nation from these people since Dick Cheney first made his virulent nature known by being one of only a couple Congressional trolls to vote against Head Start.

He fully shares your concern, but thanks for it anyway.

endorsing VP Harris.

This is NOT extolling the "virtues" of Cheney, it is about winning the election by trying to get never trump republicans to vote for VP Harris. Is that too difficult to understand?

This is the guy who begrudgingly finally decided to vote for Hillary in the general election late in October 2016, but he was right out there with the republicans blasting Hillary on the so-called "email scandal". I wonder how many people he convinced with that backhanded endorsement to vote for Jill Stein in 2016.

You remember Jill Stein don't ya?

In every critical swing state she lost the election by less than 1%, while Jill Stein received 1% of the vote in those critical swing states. It didn't take much.

We need the likes of the Cheneys to get us past the immediate danger of losing our democracy. Once we're in the clear, we can worry about the rest. When we can't distinguish between an honorable foe and a true enemy, we're lost.

and know what Dick and Liz are at their core. But Dems need every ally they can get, however temporary, to win this election.

Fuck purity tests, they only help Trump and the right wingers.

He is an idiot looking for attention, and just maybe this crap he is pulling might make some never trump republicans reconsider voting for VP Harris.

If you cannot help the situation this close to the election then STFU.

Sell one's soul: to gain wealth, success, power, etc., by doing something bad or dishonest.

Rehabilitating the Cheneys reputation is bad.

Some people are more concerned about the purity of people supporting a candidate than they are about possibility of Trump getting into office again.

Tryng to claim Kamala Harris is seeking her soul. Fuck this shit.

of a soul themselves, and getting too attached to the idea that this is anything but a temporary alliance should be discounted.

And yeah, a degree of purity, or at least consistency, is pretty important..

is being highlighted because they have differences.

Charles P. Pierce: "Thursday's Nicolle Wallace show on MSNBC was an exaltation ceremony with Liz Cheney cast in a role somewhere between Joan of Arc and Wonder Woman."

Obviously there is a long standing split among Democrats between those who think "purity" hurts the party and those who think that playing footsie with the right wing hurts the party. You want unity in order to beat Trump? How about you start with dropping the old "purity" canard as a weapon against your fellow Democrats?

Are you suggesting that the Cheneys are welcome in the big tent, but your so-called "purist" Democrats are not?

and now they are hoping Trump wins.

The following is not true, but it is as true as your statement:

"Those demanding compromise with right wing positions aren't Democrats. They are the trash that helped Bush Cheney win and now they are hoping Trump wins."

But the following probably is true:

Those who insist on attacking other Democrats over purity versus compromise - from either side - help the Republicans.

I you want to beat Trump why are you accusing Democrats with whom you disagree of not being Democrats and of being trash? You are calling or purging Democrats unless they agree with you. Who is really being the purist?

Focus your anger on the Republicans. I will do the same. Let's pull the same direction in this emergency.

and you are proving it by tryng to imply they would not support Democrats if people aren't nice to them.

They aren't Democrats if they need to be convinced.

I am not trying to imply anyone would not support Democrats if people aren't nice to them.

Can't you direct this anger at Republicans for the next 30 days or so?

And frauds like Tulsi Gabbard will be called out.

What are you taking about? Who said anything about Tulsi Gabbard?

Thanks.

How did Harris sell her soul? I didn't see anyone saying that.

And anyone who spouts it is no better than the idiots who vote for Jill Stein. They should keep their fucking traps shut until the election is over, then they can bathe in their purity spa as much as they want. SMH.

We don't need to adopt their politics or even become friends with them. We temporarily unite to elect Kamala Harris for a better future for all of us.

Between the Bushes, the Cheneys, the Romneys, and others, the walls are very much closing in on TFG. Pair these defections with MAGATs dying left and right from COVID due to non-vaccination.

How many Republicans are even going to be left come election time? It's a dying party of division and hate.

Fuck's sake.

I'm sure if we get past this national crisis we will again be cursing the Cheneys, the Lincoln Project, and all the other so-called "moderate" Republicans in short order. Just as they will be back to throwing rocks at our windows.

Right now we need all hands on deck.

just 1-2% of the vote, I’m happy to go along with giving her some props. We can go back to criticizing her positions after the election.

If I’m in car wreck I’m not going to turn away help because the guy who stopped is wearing a MAGA hat.

Link to tweet

If anyone needs to hand her accolades, there is such a thing as "participated" trophies. Trump is the mess that people like her made.

Skip to the 19 sec mark to where she starts talking about Democrats supporting the killing of babies, stating specifically that she wasn't talking about abortion, but the murder of already-born babies.

it's about supporting Kamala Harris for president and getting all the votes we can including from those that have different positions on issues.

and she will never be free of that taint.

great. But never forget who they are. Anything to destroy trump and the cult.

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Who?

🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗

That's right, nobody. You're preaching to the choir here.

EDITED TO ADD: That said, I welcome the support of anyone who wants to help keep TSF out of the White House. Doing so doesn't necessarily mean I think they are a perfect . I can embrace someone's support of Harris-Walz without endorsing their past or present stances on anything else.

Will I ever praise their "courage" and their "sacrifice"

Fuck the Cheneys straight to hell. I will never kiss their ass or praise them and I don't like anything that is going on.
Should we start going to death row inmates and getting the support of murderers and rapists next?
Don't see the difference.

I have to say I gotta disagree with President Biden here.

He said something similar about McConnell at a big ribbon cutting ceremony a few years back, how when he gave his word you could count on it. I thought about how three Supreme Court justices got rammed through the Senate by that crook, and thought that Biden must have really had to hate having to say such bullshit.

I added a p.s. to my post, in case I wasn't clear enough and gave anyone the wrong impression about where I stand.

We don't have to pile on the accolades (Joan of Arc, Wonder Women) to appreciate the support Liz Cheney has shown for defending our democracy and lending a hand in winning an Election for the Ages. If Liz and her father can give permission to any other conservative Republicans to join the fight, I'm all for it.

I don't have to like Liz Cheney or Darth Vader's political ideology to welcome their support in the moment.I don't have to like Rick Wilson or his history of supporting odious political candidates to recognize and appreciate that he and Resolute Square and the Lincoln Project have been fighting Trump where he lives.

I love Charles Pierce and his columns but I don't need Pierce or anyone else to tell me that what we're facing is existential in nature or that some comrades in the fight, people who are lending their shoulders, have been on the far-side of the moon politically.

This is not the time to question any of that because all energy or ink wasted in the pursuit of ideological purity is energy and ink not spent on defeating Donald J. Trump and his Flying Money Brigade.

Eyes on the Prize! Eyes on defending out future.

We can return to cat-brawling once we win. But right now?

Laser-focus is the only thing that counts.

Disgusting that the Democratic Party celebrates the war criminal cabal...

What's next?

A Donald Rumsfeld Monument in DC?

is bad?

That sounds a lot like the Jill Stein school of how to win elections.

dropping membership and saying, ewww yuck, I was never really a part of that gross party anyway.

Take your eye off the ball
And wind up with a dictator worse than Dick Cheney
We should have this conversation AFTER the election

I've detested him ever since a few unpleasant encounters I had with him at UW-Madison in the 1960s. Liz, however, is a different matter. While I disagree with her on many things, I admire the fact that she has stood up for the Constitution and has resolutely stood agains the slobfather since 2020. So what if she was on his side previously? She had her eyes opened, as did many at some point (Kinzinger is another example). I can forgive her that at least. Whether I agree or disagree with her on other issues is moot right now. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Early voting has started in at least 20 states.

Stay focused!

Also, weren't the rallies filled with mostly republicans? I think they were the target audience, not us.

I can't even sleep through the night anymore, that's how worried I am about this election. I'm scared. We need every single hand on deck if we're going to beat our 2020 turnout of 81 million.

I don't know if the MSM is exaggerating or exposing only the most extreme people, but trump seems to be making inroads with people who should not be giving him a second look--he is drawing them in with grievance and divisive politics. Some of them are first-time voters!

Ana Navarro had a special on CNN where she spoke with Latinos, many of whom were for trump. There was a preacher who thought it was completely fine to tell his congregation that they need to vote for trump. There was a guy (I think a farm worker) who couldn't speak a word of English who claims he is voting for trump. Like how can that be?? Does he know he could be one of the people rounded up and tossed into an immigration camp, regardless of his legal status? How is it that I care more than he does?

is not always my friend.

Look to their policies. They created this monster, and now (appear to) regret it.
That seems expedient for them.

I’ll take the swing voters they turn our way, but nothing more.

The Republican Party has two wings: The Trump wing and the Right Wing Assclown wing. Both long for the destruction of America and the imposition of Oligarchy.

In terms of saving our democracy, the GOP cannot die off fast enough. It is no longer a legitimate political party.

source of criticism of Donald Trump and his MAGA agenda. As for Dick, nothing could ever rehab that dick.

she's out for revenge, THAT IS ALL

THAT IS ALL

Reading it did more than anything to convince me of what her true convictions are when it comes to Trump.

Whatever I disagree with her about (no doubt a sizeable list), she has taken a stand for the Constitution at a time when her party has nominated for potus a person who is hellbent on shredding it, burning it, and using a leaf blower to scatter the ashes until not a trace is left. I respect that, and I welcome whatever she can contribute to the effort to keep the Orange Hellbeast out of the White House.

My eyes are focused on the election right now. After we get Harris and Walz elected and inaugurated, we and the Republicans who helped us can retire to our respective corners and put our boxing gloves back on. Right now, we have more important things to worry about.

I know her political ideology is the opposite of mine in most respects, and I would never vote for her. But I do appreciate that she gave up her political career to fight MAGA based on principle, not greed or revenge.

Trump is just white trash. Liz Cheney blocked any Jan6 scrutiny of Ginni Thomas. That's how much she cares about doing the right thing. Fuck her.

it is pitiful how people are fooled by her, WTF

Speaking of people past their expiration date.

now really isn't the time to complain about the Cheneys.

if making nice with them for a few weeks sways even a 1000 people in a swing state to for for harris, that could be the difference between keeping our country and turning into Nazi Germany 2.0.

So, honestly, Pierce can shut up.

…. way to the Presidency, and is a no good shit but for now, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
And yes 1/4 of million of our G.I. have TBIs because of him too. Hopefully he dies soon but for now
I am good with Dick’s help in bringing on a Harris/Walz landslide.

We don't owe Liz Cheney shit. She's making up for her previous fuck-up.

She's part of the reason we got 4 years of colossal mistake of a presidency. 1 term was too many for Trump.

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..in can walk to where i NEED to go.

...in this case.

"The perfect is the enemy of the good."

It takes great courage to do what Lynn Cheney has done. Sitting on the J6 committee, publicly rebuking Trump when many in her party refused to, even losing her seat over her convictions.

She is actually a moral conservative. She is not being a complete fraud like most of her party.

It is okay that we disagree on policy going forward. At least I know she actually believes in her world view instead of it being self aggrandizing performative Kabuki.

It is all hands on deck time. We need to welcome those that we disagree with for the greater good of ridding the world of true evil. This is not just Trump, this is a global takeover of democratic governance worldwide. Look at the right wing movements in Germany, France, Eastern Europe, Iran, and most of all Russia. These are not normal conservative movements, they are propaganda driven fascist movements. They are Opus Dei, religious fanatic, oligarchic capital driven takeovers.

These are not normal times. They require extraordinary sacrifice. We are facing extinction level choices here.

Thank you Lynn Cheney and all other principled Republicans who join our cause!

I would rec this 100 times if i could!

I get your point.

👏👏👏

....brain fog from 100+ degree heat in October and fires in the area.

Welcome to endless climate change...

But right now we need to defeat Trump and his band of racists and we’re gonna need all the votes we can get.

Tell you what.

I’ll only hate her as much as she hates me.

Deal?

I just want Trump and his MAGA cult gone.

accepting an endorsement is one thing - acting like this gal is the beacon of saving democracy is entirely another. She VERY MUCH helped to create Donald Fucking Trump and is solely out for revenge.

But, Dick Cheney is HORRIBLE. Liz is to be admired very much for her work on the Jan 6 committee and her willingness to be voted out of office. If her views are as awful generally as they used to be then, she is, otherwise, yuck. Her father though is a horrible person although better that he's supporting Harris Walz (I guess). It makes me sick to look at him. How many Iraqi deaths did he facilitate to enrich Halliburton and himself? How many Americans remain totally screwed up from their physical and PTSD injuries in Iraq?

Are people reading the whole article before they complain about CP?

"As I believe I've said a number of times, this is indeed an all-hands-on-deck moment. However, all-hands-on-deck does not mean all hands on the bridge. The Cheneys get a laurel and hardy handshake from me, and then I'll move along to appreciate the contributions of the people who have spent decades fighting the politics that a) made Trump not only possible, but inevitable, and b) that the Cheneys have represented for their entire public careers." (emphasis mine).

Also, Kamala is not a fool. She's super-sharp. She knows who she's dealing with. The country and world's survival is at stake so people will make alliances. Give her credit for a good enough memory to know how Dick/Liz Cheney voted their entire careers. Soon-to-be-President Kamala Harris is being strategic and will preserve her principles. She has not pivoted on any of her core issues while LC is campaigning with her.

We're putting on the grown folks pants, obviously, but it's important that Charles Pierce is prompting people's memories on these republicans even as he's acknowledging their value now. I see his comments as averting future attempts to memory-hole the Cheneys long-standing beliefs after all is said and done.

Oh and it's nice to be talking about republicans trying to rehabilitate their images for good rather than, like, trying to destroy the world so there's that...#SilverLinings

The pro-democracy tent needs to be a big one. If conservatives and republicans want to join this battle to save our republic from authoritarianism, they need to be welcomed.
Republicans who have joined with Harris are brave. They have sacrificed their political careers. They are getting death threats.
Most democrats hold a deep grudge against Dick Cheney, and I do too. But I will give the Cheney’s credit for defending democracy against the evil forces of MAGA.
Pierce is wrong.

big believer in authoritarianism, and come the defeat of Trump, he will sign right on to a more presentable version. Not sure what sort of democracy he is in favor of, perhaps the sort that stole the 2000 election.

I am willing to remain open to the possibility that Dick Cheney is not as much an asshole as he was 20 years ago. Maybe having someone else's heart beating inside of him has made him see the world differently.
The only thing that should matter now is the battle before us and that is the defeat of Donald Trump once and for all.

This is the biggest threat to American Democracy in any of our lifetimes, and I welcome anyone willing to put aside previous disagreements to defeat that threat. Liz and Dick Cheney deserve a ton of credit for being willing to do something while so many others in their party have cowardly refused to act.

- AND -

I continue to stand by every single previous disagreement I had with the Cheneys.

There’s nothing more important than for us to win this Election, I’ll take the help of anyone whose endorsement helps achieve this do or die moment for our democracy.

There’s nothing more important than for us to win this Election, I’ll take the help of anyone whose endorsement tends to assist us in this do or die moment for our democracy.

I mean, if someone like Vance or Cotton were at the top of the ticket, would these "never Trumpers" be crossing over the way they are.

And I'll NEVER forget that, before Project 2025/MAGA, there were the Teabaggers, before the Teabaggers there PNAC/Neocons, before the PNAC/Neocons, there was Contract for America. All of these Republicans check in with the Heritage Foundation, and that goes WAYYY back.

Now if we're witnessing an organic turning over new leaves, then it's a beautiful thing. But my skeptic senses are on perpetual idling.

Time and energy on.

I also didn’t agree with the Obama’s rehabilitating W.
The Cheney’s are not stupid. I believe they were offended by heathen Trump and Jan 6 as a breach of political etiquette, and also saw the writing on the wall for Maga in the aftermath. I believe they saw the opportunity to resurge after the next Democratic administration and that there would not be another Democratic administration if Trump wins.
The OP’s mention of Liz’s voting record and Dick’s history is sufficient to justify serious cynicism.

Last edited Mon Oct 7, 2024, 10:22 AM - Edit history (1)

I despise the Cheneys, but if they help save the country, that's great. The Cheneys can go back under a rock after we win the election.

It doesn't say that because he never once said that.

Getting mad about what he actually said is one thing but getting mad about what he didn't say doesn't make sense.

He never once said to reject their votes. Not once. He never even implied it.

He did voice criticism of praising either of them.

That's all he did.

agreed with him during the Bush years, so why would she reject the unitary executive now?

He said nothing, absolutely nothing, about cottoning to her if she had rejected the unitary executive.

What he did say was this: