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H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 07:56 PM Friday

Life with the Liars

“ Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.


Like yourself, I find some of the outright lies being spread in the final weeks of the campaign season being repeated by people who really should know better to be curious. It does not surprise me, of course, to see some of those I went to high school with parroting mis- and disinformation, because I never mistook them for capable of grasping even junior high level science or social studies. But seeing two masters degree level former co-workers spreading nonsense is stunning.

In evaluating and comparing the less intelligent and intelligent people's comments, one glaring similarity stood out. In every case, they were reacting to the republican campaign to inject outrage in order to prevent rational thought. They know that negative emotions come from parts of the brain that block the conscious mind's ability to use logic.

I had considered writing a long and boring essay on brain functions -- indeed, even longer and more tedious than my usual posts. But I was thinking that the sum total of ignorant and stupid people supporting the felon is not enough to make the polls close in most regions of the country. So I decided to simply post a link of where emotions come from, which is a fascinating article, and the focus on the other supporters of the felon.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8228195/

Besides the usual strain of felong supporters, there are at least three other sub-groups. Let's take a brief look at them. First would be christian nationalists, an almost exclusively white population. They are motivated to support the felon, not so much out of outrage, but because they want him to continue to stack the federal courts with Heritage Foundation approved zealots. These people are not stupid in the classic sense of the word. They are, however, upset by the very idea of women enjoying sex and having the ability to make health care choices. (Note: No republican woman alive today has had an orgasm.)

The next group are those in control of corporations. They support the felon, not because they like him as a person, but because they anticipate his ending environmental regulations. They are not concerned about the severe damage they do to the land, air, and water.

The third group is comprised of those of the ilk of Steve Bannon. They want to destroy constitutional government, and impose a now version of the feudalism found in Europe between the 9th and 15th centuries.

There is, obviously, overlap between the three groups. But they are largely distinct from the herd of outraged human bovines that we tend to hear squawking oh so loudly at present. It is important that we are aware that they are manipulating and leading the maga types.

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Life with the Liars (Original Post) H2O Man Friday OP
K&R SheltieLover Friday #1
Thank you! H2O Man Friday #2
Oh, how I'd love to strike the puppeteer! SheltieLover Friday #4
Right! H2O Man Friday #7
Well, if Malcom was half the debater you say he was (and I fully believe you!) SheltieLover Friday #14
Oh, he was! H2O Man Friday #18
I'm sick of the liars malaise Friday #3
Thank you! H2O Man Friday #8
The wrong "F" dpibel Friday #5
Right. H2O Man Friday #10
They claim they want to take America back to the 50's....... AZ8theist Friday #16
Perfect! H2O Man Friday #19
Spot on Easterncedar Friday #6
It really would. H2O Man Friday #11
I'm so old I recall when racism was bad Easterncedar Friday #13
I hear you! H2O Man Friday #15
Another great post. Quiet Em Friday #9
Thanks, Quiet Em! H2O Man Friday #12
Exactly, and they have no love for DJT and know he is a madman. malthaussen Friday #17
Very well said! H2O Man Friday #21
Which in its way is an altogether more chilling prospect. malthaussen Saturday #29
Deliberate liars have no respect for their followers; no fealty to the God they claim to worship; and ... Martin Eden Friday #20
The felon is H2O Man Friday #22
The felon is a slave to the insatiable hunger of his giant but fragile ego Martin Eden Friday #23
Right. H2O Man Saturday #24
Jumbo Liar, Pants of Fire, such a Dumbo................. DFW Saturday #25
Very good! H2O Man Saturday #26
Thanks! We just finished that one. DFW Saturday #28
Lonesome Rhodes understood, completely. Kid Berwyn Saturday #27

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
2. Thank you!
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 08:13 PM
Friday

I was thinking about Malcolm X's saying, "Don't strike the puppet -- strike the puppeteer" as I was writing this.

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
7. Right!
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 08:53 PM
Friday

One of the great things about the internet is that I can watch films of some of Malcolm's speeches and debates on youtube. Of course I have numerous books covering Malcolm, and still have a record set of his speeches put out in Detroit in the late 1960s. But there is something about watching that beautiful & brilliant man "striking" his opponents with words. No one enjoyed debating Malcolm.

The other night, I was having a conversation with an old friend that I've known for decades. He posted some misinformation about FEMA, and I politely corrected him, and suggested he be more careful. Neither of us has ever been offended if the other says something like that. Some human being that I don't know was moved to write an obnoxious attack, directly at me. He ended with saying he would leave it to me to figure out his political beliefs.

Now, SheltieLover, it was late and I could not sleep because the old bag of bones (and lard) that life has reduced me to was aching. A relative had told an afternoon joke, and I had laughed so hard that my broken ribs hurt like heck. And I couldn't stop laughing ..... until late at night, when I read that message. I responded by saying it was presumptuous of him to think that I cared what he thought, or what he had to say. This started a discussion between him and I in which I went into a bit more of the reasons why he means nothing to me -- that he was not close to the level of being able to debate me if I was blindfolded, with one arm tied behind my back. He found that offensive.

My friend then said I didn't have to be so darned mean, and treat him like an opponent in a boxing match. I said I agreed fully with him, but it was fun. Then I wrote a few paragraphs about how I had primarily illustrating how easily outraged people are to control and direct and redirect in any way I wanted. Then spoke of how when one talks about facts, that doesn't usually happen. A few of my friends republican buds found that interesting, and we had a good conversation.

SheltieLover

(59,037 posts)
14. Well, if Malcom was half the debater you say he was (and I fully believe you!)
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 09:15 PM
Friday

Then you had every right to have a good time with the magat who stuck his nose into your conversation.

You're absolutely right. People in a state of high emotional arousal and not in wise mind mode. Matats are rarely, if ever, in wise mind, because their amygdalas are enlarged and hyperactive. (Loads of good research articles online. NIH & such.)

So good for you that you both had fun with the jerk and engaged some Rs in a good conversation. Who knows, you might have converted some to vote for Kamala & down ballots!

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
18. Oh, he was!
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 10:53 PM
Friday

One of the funny things about the late 1950s and the '60s is how Malcolm, though his public image was "violent," was a peaceful man. The first time he was associated with violence came in 1957. In NYC, two police beat Hinton Johnson and three others with night sticks, leaving Johnson with bleeding on the brain. Malcolm insisted they take Johnson for medical treatment, but they hesitated. Soon the police headquarter's block was surrounded by NOI men, silent, dressed in suits. This convinced the police that they needed to take Johnson to the hospital.

Malcolm left the police station, gave a hand signal, and the NOI men left. A top cop told the Amsterdam News, "No one man should have that much power." Later, when Malcolm heard this, he said, "He meant 'no black man'." This incident brought Malcolm to the national news. Soon, someone said he was the only man who could either start a riot or end one. Malcolm thought for a minute, then said, "I don't know if I'd ever want to start a riot. And I don't know if I'd ever want to stop one."

These things scared people, especially white people. Malcolm had a way with words. Eventually, of course, came the second time he was associated with violence, when he was murdered while starting a speech at the Audubon Ballroom. Meanwhile, Martin Luther King was a prophet advocating nonviolence, who was subjected to frequent violence from racist trash, until he, too, was gunned down.

Only in America.

dpibel

(3,160 posts)
5. The wrong "F"
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 08:29 PM
Friday

I've said for a long time that the people who label Trumpists fascist are using the wrong f-word.

As you note: They're feudalists.

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
10. Right.
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 08:56 PM
Friday

I think the feudalists have been in control of the fascist maga mob all along. These people admire Putin.

AZ8theist

(6,326 posts)
16. They claim they want to take America back to the 50's.......
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 10:29 PM
Friday

...only it's the 1250's, NOT THE 1950s.

Feudalism is about right.

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
11. It really would.
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 09:05 PM
Friday

We grew up with the crazies. Some might be relatives. Others are neighbors. We went to school with them. Might have worked with a few of them. We liked them alright ...... not to the extent we wanted to hang out with them as adults.

Then we started noticing some of them being a tad anxious when Senator Obama won the presidency in 2008. A few of them might have wore one of those silly triangular hatsaround their lawn when it wasn't even Halloween. And saying things that suggested that they were losing touch with reality. Then the felon announced he was running, and they morphed into bat shit crazies.

Now, my question: Is this some time of accidental diseased condition? Or is the Universe doing this on purpose? There might be a cure if it's the first thing. We are stuck with them if it's the second.

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
15. I hear you!
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 09:15 PM
Friday

I'm old enough to remember when even though it was bad, there were idiots who were comfortable spouting racist shit in public. Then there was a time when they shut up. I didn't anticipate racism coming back into style, something of a maga badge (of dishonor). Or a presidential candidate who would be talking about DNA in the evil, hitler-like manner the felon is.

malthaussen

(17,582 posts)
17. Exactly, and they have no love for DJT and know he is a madman.
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 10:42 PM
Friday

This is why I think he would last approximately one minute after hypothetically winning an election. Those groups need the GOP to win, and that means they have to vote for the face of the GOP, a man they wouldn't spit on if he were on fire otherwise. Once he got elected, they would have zero use for him, and they aren't stupid, they know how dangerous he is. Get the GOP in, dismantle the government along the lines of Project 2025, and continue to put up a succession of puppets who will dance to their strings. Which of course DJT is too demented to do reliably. He is an asset only in the election, and not one second after.

-- Mal

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
21. Very well said!
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 10:59 PM
Friday

They have considered the felon to be a petty criminal and ass-clown for decades. He is merely the vehicle they use to drive their agenda. And I think they are fully aware that his primary goal is to get elected to have "his" DOJ drop Jack Smith's cases against him. Maybe do a few more destructive things for "revenge." Appoint a few federal judges. But if he wins, he won't last for four years. They will replace him with Vance.

malthaussen

(17,582 posts)
29. Which in its way is an altogether more chilling prospect.
Sat Oct 12, 2024, 03:06 PM
Saturday

I've bee saying all along that Mr Vance isn't "weird," he's a creep. He's just as mad as DJT, but is of the cold, psychotic, type, not the demented loose cannon DJT has already become. He reminds me of Herr Himmler, in fact. Petty little vicious bureaucrat who has the directed and connected intellect to construct multiple death camps and plan the movement of millions to die in them. Whereas DJT, especially now, while not lacking in malice, hasn't got the attention span of a squirrel and would lose interest after a brief spasm of terror. Then he'd move on to the next spasm, of course, but overall, he'd never do as much damage as his running mate unless it were to accidentally trigger global war -- which I don't think our military would allow to happen. Mr Vance is exactly the sort of person the Project 2025 boffins want implementing their program.

And of course, it won't end with 2024. Project 2025 will become 2029, will become 2033, and so on... I don't think we'll ever be shut of these bastards, certainly not within our lifetimes, Pat.

-- Mal

Martin Eden

(13,316 posts)
20. Deliberate liars have no respect for their followers; no fealty to the God they claim to worship; and ...
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 10:59 PM
Friday

They utterly reject the American ideals of truth and justice.

That so many of our countrymen fail to see this -- or have becoming knowing accomplices -- is distressing beyond words.

Not only because faith in our fellow citizens has been shattered, but because the threats currently embodied in the Felon will likely continue long after his bloated carcass stops taliking.

A house divided against itself cannot stand. Fortunately, neither can an ideology built on lies -- but it can do a helluva lot of damage if we fail to defeat the Felon and his cohorts a few weeks from now.

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
22. The felon is
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 11:09 PM
Friday

like the Michael Caine told Christian Bale in the movie The Dark Knight -- the type of man who wants to burn the whole jungle down. He didn't start the hatreds that were growing in America, especially after the 2008 presidential election. But the felon knew how to read the room, so to speak, and has exploited it ever since. He's done a lot of damage.

Martin Eden

(13,316 posts)
23. The felon is a slave to the insatiable hunger of his giant but fragile ego
Fri Oct 11, 2024, 11:43 PM
Friday

His overriding ideology is feeding his own need. The felon can be manipulated by smarter men seeking to channel his power to serve their own ideology -- be it Christian nationalism, corporate greed, or the burn it all down nihilism of a Steve Bannon.

Regardless, the potential damage is there.

H2O Man

(75,089 posts)
24. Right.
Sat Oct 12, 2024, 01:10 AM
Saturday

Crushing the felon is an important step, and it needs to lead to an on-going struggle against the varied enemies of our democratic form of government. For they will remain a threat, just like they have long been.

DFW

(56,242 posts)
28. Thanks! We just finished that one.
Sat Oct 12, 2024, 11:46 AM
Saturday

We’re busy re-releasing two Ted Cruz songs from the past, still debating on one last “Liar” song, a Johnny Cash parody.

Kid Berwyn

(17,511 posts)
27. Lonesome Rhodes understood, completely.
Sat Oct 12, 2024, 10:58 AM
Saturday
Lonesome Rhodes, addressing the candidate and his backers: “Respect? Did you ever hear of anyone buying any product - beer, hair rinse, tissue - because they respect it? You gotta be loved, man. Loved....Politics is people...Senator, I'm a professional. And I have to look at the image on that screen same as I'd look at a performer on my show. And I'll have to say he'll never get over to my audience. Not to the 65 million people who welcome me into their living rooms each week. And if I wouldn't buy him, do you realize what that means? If I wouldn't buy him, the people of this country aren't ready to buy him for that big job on Pennsylvania Avenue.”

https://www.filmsite.org/faceinthecrowd3.html



Actor on Rhodes' show: [Speaking about Senator Fuller] You really sell that stiff as a man among men?

Lonesome Rhodes: Those morons out there? Shucks, I could take chicken fertilizer and sell it to them as caviar. I could make them eat dog food and think it was steak. Sure, I got 'em like this... You know what the public's like? A cage of Guinea Pigs. Good Night you stupid idiots. Good Night, you miserable slobs. They're a lot of trained seals. I toss them a dead fish and they'll flap their flippers.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050371/quotes/?item=qt5351950

Take it from me, the truth, just another county trustee who looks a helluvalot like a very old LR.
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