General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's time for Democrats to stand down.
For 40 years, the Democratic Party has insulated Americans from the extreme promises of the Republican Party. Every four years, Republicans will run on deporting those living here illegally, overturning abortion laws, doing away with Social Security and Medicare through privatization, slashing the federal budget in half - if not more - so that we could be fiscally conservative as a nation and every time, it's the Democrats who act as a buffer and stop those policies from being implemented. They either do it at the federal level or the state level and that ultimately leaves the voter not experiencing what they actually voted for.
In 2004, George Bush ran on privatizing social security and in 2005 came close to doing it. What stopped him? Enough Democrats banded together to kill it. But that's what the voters voted for, right? Despite polls showing a majority of Americans opposed privatizing social security, that was one of the core tenants of Bush's reelection campaign - the one where he won the senior vote.
Imagine if Democrats hadn't stepped in and social security was privatized. Do you remember what happened shortly after 2005?
Yeah. The financial crisis and the collapse of the stock market. Had Bush been successful in delivering on his campaign promise, an issue many voters must have supported when they voted for him, in 2008 all those seniors would have lost their retirement in the stock market.
Just look at the damage 401ks faced in 2008 and imagine that now impacting social security!
It took years before the stock market recouped those losses.
Similarly, Trump ran in 2016 on repealing the Affordable Healthcare Act. Even though a majority of Americans didn't necessarily support the repeal, it was very much part of his overall campaign. Except it never happened. Once again, Democrats banded together (with a handful of Republicans, including McCain) to save the ACA.
To save the ability to get health insurance despite having a preexisting condition.
To save parents being able to keep their kids on their plan until they turn 26.
To open up health insurance opportunities for millions of Americans.
But that's what the voters wanted, right? I mean, that's what Trump promised to do.
We also saw it with his tariffs. Trump imposed crushing tariffs that devasted the American Farmer, who largely voted for him, and what happened? We had to bail 'em out or we'd lose most of our farming. $44 billion went to the American Farmer because Trump's tariffs nearly bankrupted the industry. Once again, voters voting for Trump being insulated from their own actions.
Trump now wants to deport every single person in this country illegally - regardless of their age or how long they've been here. I am guessing most Americans don't actually want that. But they voted for it!
Trump has also promised 150% tariffs - if not more - in Mexico alone. Again, an action that I doubt many voters have actually researched the consequences to.
It's time we give the voters what they want!
I am tired of Democrats being the responsible party having to clean up and protect Americans from Republican policies. They need to understand what they're voting for. This is what they agreed with and this is what they should get.
They need to understand the consequences of these policies because every time Trump, or another Republican runs on implementing them, they never are truly realized because the Democrats are there to say, "Wait a minute! If we deport every single undocumented immigrant...it'll wreck the economy!"
The Democrats have held the American peoples' hands for 40 years now and get burned every single time they do it.
It's time to step aside and let Trump do what he said he's going to do. Because that's the only way the voters will learn.
You want 150% tariffs on Mexico? Good. Don't complain when your Nissan Sentra, which is made in Mexico, now costs you $90,000.
You want more tariffs on goods imported from China? Cool. Don't bitch when you go to Walmart and that t-shirt that cost you $15 under Biden is now $40.
American voters are the most privileged voters in the world because they're never held to account when it comes to their own voting.
And what that does is create an environment where Trump can promise to overturn Roe v Wade, actually do it, and a woman at ASU telling MSNBC that she voted for Trump because he'll protect abortion.
We don't understand the ramifications of Trump's plans, or the Republican agenda, because the Democratic Party has been this country's safeguard. They've been the party that has fought the Republicans at every turn when it came to beefing up social security and Medicare. They've been the party that pushed for Medicaid expansion and VA benefits that Republicans always talk about cutting to balance that pesky budget (so they can send billions more money to the rich in tax cuts).
Well maybe the Democrats need to step aside and let the Republicans do what they've promised to do for decades now.
If this is what America wants, this is what America should get and deserves.
And if it works out? If a 150% increase in tariffs doesn't sink the economy? Cool. Then you've just built a lasting coalition.
But we all know it won't. Everyone knows massive tariffs kill the economy. We know this because anyone who ever took a basic history class that touched on the Great Depression read what led to it.
We know deporting every single undocumented person in this country is a bad idea that will wreck the economy and upend communities.
We know repealing abortion laws, and criminalizing abortion leads to a higher number of women dying as a result of it.
We know all this.
Yet we vote for it because we don't ever believe it'll actually happen.
Trump won't really do it!
Funny considering all I hear from Trump supporters is that he's a man of his word. Promises made, promises kept, right?
Well maybe it's time for Democrats to stand down and let Trump keep those promises so that every voter can experience the ramifications of them.
Maybe that's the only way this country will learn.
Let Trump be Trump. Let him be a dictator. Let him impose his tariffs and deport every undocumented immigrant. Let him sign into law that national abortion ban. Let him put Herschel Walker in charge of our missile defense. Let him surrender our foreign policy to Russia.
These are all things Americans want. Let's give it to them. No more coddling voters and saving them from the consequences of their actions.
Wingus Dingus
(8,413 posts)No opposition. Let's have zero checks. I want to watch it all burn.
Captain Zero
(7,594 posts)Then what; run ads explaining to everyone what they have lost in just 200 days?
Wingus Dingus
(8,413 posts)Clouds Passing
(2,894 posts)calimary
(84,715 posts)Theyre REALLY good at this stuff.
REALLY GOOD.
We HAVE TO start taking them more seriously.
And dont forget, this has brought Project 2025 back from the dead, too. We cant afford to ignore OR concede on that, either.
ananda
(30,979 posts)you just might get it.
LiberalArkie
(16,702 posts)wnylib
(24,909 posts)Why don't you just add, "Let them eat cake?"
I prefer Kamala's words in her concession speech today, that she will continue to work for the values of her campaign.
You are urging antipatory obedience. That's the path to authoritarianism. Once you give in to that you cannot go back. A substantial number of us still believe in the values of liberty, decency, and democracy. We will not give up, so stop trying to convince us that we should.
wnylib
(24,909 posts)Fish700
(148 posts)NT
Blaukraut
(5,924 posts)I'm tired of this never-ending merry-go-round. However: letting voters suffer the consequences of their choice of governance means that those who don't deserve it are collateral damage. If we're willing to suffer along with them for the eventual greater good, then fine. But we have to go into it with that knowledge and understanding.
Self Esteem
(1,797 posts)And they will continue to fight for the people and n the process enable Trump ironically enough.
Every Trump voter I have ever come across has told me that he doesn't really mean what he says and that most of it is just campaign rhetoric.
And I firmly believe that because Democrats safeguarded this country from it. It was Democratic governors and mayors who created sanctuary cities so that Trump couldn't round up undocumented Americans back in 2017.
It's largely these blue states that are enshrining abortion rights into their constitution - or something similar.
The Democratic Party has become the protector. They shield the voter from the abusive drunk father and then they get the blame.
Butterflylady
(4,011 posts)Every time they mess up, we bail them out. NO MORE. Let's not give them the chance, to blame us.
roamer65
(37,246 posts)That way we can better determine who to help and who to cut loose.
wnylib
(24,909 posts)the knowledge that you would be promoting the deaths of people who lose medical care, women who die from miscarriages, seniors on SS who end up in the streets.
They will not all be Trump voters. Many will be innocent victims of a MAGA dictatorship and of your compliance with it.
CaliforniaPeggy
(152,554 posts)Captain Zero
(7,594 posts)why not?
morillon
(1,249 posts)I really do.
If we were able to make sure the assholes and idiots who voted for him suffered the brunt of the consequences, I'd be all for it.
How can we protect the vulnerable and ourselves while letting them have their way? Seriously asking, since I agree that we have protected them from the reality of their dangerous bullshit ideas for far too long.
Of course, immigrants are the early targets of T****; however, most of these government departments they are talking about dismantling are departments that tend to help the people toward the bottom. How's Joe Maga going to feel when he has to shell out $10K so his little Elmer can get an elementary school education? Or when Mary Maga needs that health insurance from the ACA or Medicaid that they can't afford to shell out $$$ for because she had hemorrhoids 30 years ago? How about all those poor kids who were getting Pell grants? How about the peeps in Floriduh who won't know the next hurricane is coming unless they pay for the info? How about when Bubba Texas drives his brand new F450 into a giant pothole that would have been fixed before with DoT money?
The Maga will find out the hard way why we have these federal departments in the first place. Unfortunately, most of us will suffer as well, but at least we will know exactly why it's happening. They won't have a clue.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,895 posts)Floridians not knowing when the next hurricane is coming, or where it will hit, or how strong it will be.
Heck, I already cannot begin to understand how, simply given climate change, anyone with an IQ above 25 has moved to Florida in the last decade.
And yeah, it's a shame that the rest of us will be impacted, but we Democrats have protected them far too long.
The Madcap
(670 posts)There are several on this forum that live there for various reasons. It's really going to be hard to escape, given how much insurance is going up.
I just can't understand the mentality of eliminating agencies. I do, however, get trying to reduce waste, improve efficiency, etc.
RJ_MacReady
(448 posts)I'm pretty much at this point. The only way people will learn is by experience. Just too bad we will be hurt in the process, but so be it.
gab13by13
(25,463 posts)People stepping aside and letting them tear our country to shreds. Magats control government and the Supreme Court, now is the time to fight them, not make it easy for them.
Self Esteem
(1,797 posts)Wingus Dingus
(8,413 posts)SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)The Supreme Court? LOL! That's gone for at least 40 years. Oversight? Expansion? LOL!!
Don't be surprised if the filibuster is gone, which will really be the only backstop at our disposal, which is ironic since many of us wanted to get rid of it in recent years.
The voters handed it to them on a silver platter. It already is easy for them. There really is nothing we can do to stop it. So perhaps we should act like it, and let them run their tin pot dictatorship. We're all going to suffer either way.
Blue_Roses
(13,456 posts)and while this is going on I think I'll take an extended vacation to Canada.
The Unmitigated Gall
(4,638 posts)Then they turn around and blame democrats for what logically happens. Aided by a complicit media they use that blame to catapult themselves into continuing office.
We get left holding the used dick-bag.
Fuck it. No more. People SHOULD get the kind of government they deserve.
LuckyCharms
(19,230 posts)HappyLarge
(27 posts)People (mostly, poor, mostly brown, mostly women) are going to die. At least at first. And a metric shit ton of animal life will die. That is what a majority of our fellow countrymen voted for. Maybe the Chinese will pull out the stops on climate and save somethingit sure as hell wont be the USofA.
LuckyCharms
(19,230 posts)people will die if we don't at least make an attempt to call attention to the wrongness and stop it.
Welcome to DU!
PortTack
(34,897 posts)OneGrassRoot
(23,444 posts)Intractable
(631 posts)elsewhere, such as on Democrats, and the people will believe it.
They've been believing Fox news's lies for many years. This will be no different.
Prairie Gates
(3,600 posts)This is, in fact, a slight variation on the old Marxist argument for heightening the contradictions, or more recently a modified accelerationism, both of which are fine. The ethics of it are tricky, and the politics as well, because ultimately as people suffer, they just blame "all politicians," and Lord knows the Republicans seem to have the means of communication under control. So, there are pitfalls, but I do think that Trump has been so open on mass deportation and tariffs that putting in the minority vote without fighting to get Republkcians on board and saying "We oppose these tariffs, but this is the will of the people, and the President should have a chance at his agenda" is not really the worst idea in the world. It's going to be catastrophic, of course, and is just a backdoor way to end all income taxes and government services, so, yes, the ethics are tricky. But sometimes respecting democracy means giving the people what they voted for, which is tariffs and mass deportations. Trump team, you're up.
The Madcap
(670 posts)non-roth IRA and 401k....
Nah, they'll just steal that.
wildflowergardener
(995 posts)The problem with doing all those things is those of us who vote for the democrats will be hurt by those things as well. They are protecting us as well as the others.
Deuxcents
(20,251 posts)Omnipresent
(6,504 posts)Taking our ball and going home, leaves our base with no one to turn to.
We need to better understand why our loyal opposition messages voters the way they do.
Republicans learned from James Carvilles simple explanation of why they lost the presidency in 1992 was Its the economy stupid.
Winning the gulf war just wasnt enough, people were hurting then. People are hurting now, but unfortunately they felt they had no one to turn to, but the worst party.
TBF
(34,816 posts)This isn't our decision; the voters have made it themselves.
What kind of fools decide they don't want "elites" telling them what to do, and then vote in a chump from NYC who inherited hundreds of millions of dollars from his family? He is the very definition of a "coastal elite". He was the prep school kid who paid someone to take his SAT and used bone spurs to get out of military service. His supporters can sit in this bed that they made. They've made it clear they hate women, so why would I do anything to help them?
I've been busy deleting them from my social media today.
Demobrat
(9,966 posts)CousinIT
(10,540 posts)I cannot survive without social security. And millions of others cannot. This will devastate the economy. The billionaires who now own and control the US govt will not be affected. BUT EVERYONE ELSE WILL.
Im all for standing down - but were talking about devastating my life and millions of others in the next year or so, if we let social security be abolished or privatized (which is the same thing). I dont think we can stop it but we can fight it and urge Dems and some GOP to fight it. Its all we can do.
I dont want to sell my house and go live with my MAGAT sister who is also on soc security - because neither of us have it anymore or its been cut. I cant sit back and let that happen. It might anyway, but Im going to try to fight it.
Deuxcents
(20,251 posts)And the worst part is..I may have to sell because of health, car, home insurance n condo fees. Hard to keep up but its not Bidens fault!
dlk
(12,481 posts)There comes a point where doing the same thing over and over again by but expecting a different rest (like recognition or appreciation) becomes insanity.
The Madcap
(670 posts)They need to scream it from the mountaintops and say why. Film it and show it again in four years after the disaster.
WhiskeyGrinder
(24,132 posts)I cant imagine not doing the work I do in the hopes it hurts the right people. Its not transactional for me.
Skittles
(160,505 posts)I will NOT give in to fascism, I will FIGHT
Coexist
(26,202 posts)dameatball
(7,604 posts)Lemme think about it.
Martin68
(24,777 posts)mountain grammy
(27,404 posts)I just don't have the energy to be outraged everyday. but we still need to stay vigilant and watch out for each other.
Right now, I just want to understand why voters have turned against the Democratic party.
Marigold
(218 posts)This makes me feel a little bit better and it makes a lot of sense.
Trumps opponents are now muttering about the choice of Tim Walz, the influence of the Russians, the role of the right-wing media, and whether President Joe Biden should not have stepped aside in favor of Harris. Even the old saw about economic anxiety is making a comeback.
These explanations all have some merit, but mostly, they miss the point. Yes, some voters still stubbornly believe that presidents magically control the price of basic goods. Others have genuine concerns about immigration and gave in to Trumps booming call of fascism and nativism. And some of them were just never going to vote for a woman, much less a Black woman.
But in the end, a majority of American voters chose Trump because they wanted what he was selling: a nonstop reality show of rage and resentment. Some Democrats, still gripped by the lure of wonkery, continue to scratch their heads over which policy proposals might have unlocked more votes, but that was always a mugs game. Trump voters never cared about policies, and he rarely gave them any. (Choosing to be eaten by a shark rather than electrocuted might be a personal preference, but its not a policy.) His rallies involved long rants about the way hes been treated, like a giant therapy session or a huge family gathering around a bellowing, impaired grandpa.
Back in 2021, I wrote a book about the rise of illiberal populism, the self-destructive tendency in some nations that leads people to participate in democratic institutions such as voting while being hostile to democracy itself, casting ballots primarily to punish other people and to curtail everyones rightseven their own. These movements are sometimes led by fantastically wealthy faux populists who hoodwink gullible voters by promising to solve a litany of problems that always seem to involve money, immigrants, and minorities. The appeals from these charlatans resonate most not among the very poor, but among a bored, relatively well-off middle class, usually those who are deeply uncomfortable with racial and demographic changes in their own countries.
HereForTheParty
(332 posts)We're Democrats. We don't stop fighting for people because we're bummed about an election.
0rganism
(24,768 posts)We're at severe minority status in congress and the supreme court, shut out of the white house.
Democrats are nearly irrelevant now. We have zero leverage, couldn't protect anyone from GOP policies if we tried.
Best Dems can do now is try to mitigate the damage at the state and local levels, and even those efforts will be shut down in a year or two.
This.
I hear those who say "I will fight!" ...and think they will be some of the first to go to the firing lines.
(i *wish* Joe would grow a pair in the home stretch and do some of that IMMUNE shit , but it'll never happen. Dems don't fight back...)
Every dystopian movie/novel is about to befall us. ALL of us...
nobody can rescue us anymore anyways...
I dont even think we have until January before shit starts rolling downhill.
flamingdem
(39,970 posts)Of course we're not going to do that but we do need to stop enabling the GOP and their lies.
How is the question.
Pototan
(2,162 posts)When the abusers and their victims both agree with each other, let them have at it.
FemDemERA
(427 posts)1. Do not Obey in advance.
2. Defend institutions.
Mr. Snyders book On Tyranny is a must read. Its an also a quick one (about 125 pages)
https://scholars.org/contribution/twenty-lessons-fighting-tyranny-twentieth
PortTack
(34,897 posts)Let them stumble and fall until they beg us for help, and they will. Give it a year or two and they will
Don't cave to that fucker. Never stop fighting.
How many people have to die under your suggestion? Do you care about them?
Trump helped kill I don't even know how many people during Covid. Did that stop anybody? Apparently not.
They just don't care. Not even a little bit. If all those people die, they'll be OK with it.
Don't buckle under and give it to this guy. It''ll cost more than it will save.
DFW
(56,937 posts)But we still have a responsibility to the 48% of the people that DID vote for us. Their votes are a mandate for us to try and save THEM, and thats a LOT of people. Yes, I hate that wed be saving trumpanzees as well, but we made a deal with our own voters. We have no moral right to betray THEIR trust just because millions of Trumpanzees will try to hitch a free ride.
IzzaNuDay
(714 posts)they are going to F it up for all of us. Democrats just play rope a dope and let the GOP self implode.
Meanwhile strategize for the midterms.
Aim for MAFA - Make America Fd Again!
kentuck
(112,959 posts)If they cannot stand up for the people?
JI7
(90,950 posts)I might change my mind later. But yes, let them do what they said they will for there people and let the people that voted for them experience it.
LymphocyteLover
(7,013 posts)XanaDUer2
(14,738 posts)Ruby the Liberal
(26,333 posts)2016 felt like we collectively didn't initially envision the scope of what he was truly capable of (technically and ethically), so were on guard in a 24/7/365 firehose news cycle. For 4 years straight.
We marched, we protested, we yelled into the wind about *gestures at everything*. We were a force and stopped the worst of it, but it never truly resonated.
Fast forward 4 years and the cabal is back unscathed and with blanket immunity - past and future. This time with a competent production team, years in the planning.
We have the Libertarian crypto/VC/billionaire set eager to overhaul the entire (newly deregulated) US Government into a for-profit enterprise alongside the Christian Taliban out to rewrite the Constitution in their own self-image. Both of these groups willfully overlooking the other's agenda (as long as it doesn't impact *them* of course)
No smoke-filled back rooms either - THEY PUBLISHED A DETAILED HANDOUT.
Our fellow citizens saw, they heard, they witnessed the crime sprees and the cruelty and the corruption and the greed. Selling out national security/secrets (ours and allies) to the highest bidder.
They have been given an enumerated list of what is next to come.
And a landslide majority thought that it would be best to order up 4 more years.
We have the luxury this time of being able to ignore his emotional rollercoaster - their 'brilliant businessman' hero just became the dancing-clown front man. He gets his 24/7 dopamine hits from being on a camera somewhere blathering about how he wants to "save energy and build jobs" by retrofitting everyone's insulation with good old asbestos or whatever - instead of having to do any actual 'work'.
The 2025 agenda will be professionally executed by the people who now own Trump 2.0 (for ending his legal woes) and don't want him any where NEAR this, not something he muttered to Hannity being haphazardly and incompetently implemented by the lackies who Trump 1.0 owned. Someone will be hired to memorize his every utterance and assure him that {whatever directive} is being followed, while making sure he isn't missing any tee times.
Trying to look the other way is soul wrenching, but sometimes people need to let it hit them like a sledge hammer before any of it sinks in.
Then again, these people will be cheering deportations of dairy farm workers while being mad at Nancy Pelosi because the price of eggs is too high.
I really hate this.
Oakenshield
(628 posts)Republicans have swept the board. They're going to get whatever they want, and the only saving grace some Americans may have is the fact Republicans are vicious IDIOTS and lack the intelligence and logistical acumen to make their dreams of a christian fundie Reich a reality.
Sparkly
(24,362 posts)They lost just about everything when Dubya's admin let their house of cards collapse in 2008, yet when Obama took over they griped that the recovery was too slow.
The entire economy, along with everything else, was in ruins in 2020, yet when Biden took over they griped the recovery was going too fast -- too much stimulus and inflation. Nevermind inflation is down, deficits are down, unemployment is down, crime is down, illegal border crossings are down...
"Wahhh!"
Things can get very bad, over and over. If that could be visited only on the 51% who voted for it, okay; but it's put on 100% of us, including vulnerable populations who did nothing to deserve it. And in a few years, the idiots will have forgotten everything anyway.
Persondem
(2,097 posts)Was to think that the USA was ready for a Madam President, twice. We were wrong, twice. 2004 is the only time we lost a presidential election with a male candidate since 1990. (Bush was selected in 2000)
sir pball
(4,946 posts)I'm not sure that's such a good tactic.
electric_blue68
(18,969 posts)"teach" the Democrats a "lesson".
Fuck that! 🤬
beaglelover
(4,135 posts)totodeinhere
(13,376 posts)Do we just abandon them? No, I don't think so. I am not going to roll over and play dead. I am going to continue to fight. Isn't that what both President Trump and VP Harris have asked us to do? Kamala said "never give up" and I agree with her. But don't get me wrong. I understand your frustration. We are all angry, sad and depressed right now. But we must keep fighting.