If the campaign had proof, they would already be filing for recounts.

If Pavlovitz has proof, he should provide it to the campaign. My guess is that he has nothing.

It's also funny that he thinks we should do the same things that had zero success for Trump in 2020. Why should we expect a different outcome? The cases Trump filed were little more than nuisances.

Some recounts, just for peace of mind. Looks like Centre county PA came out quite a bit different after the recount.

The increase of votes cast compared to 2020 in Pennsylvania is 40,508, Michigan is 74,784, and Wisconsin is 124,129.

The percentage that Harris lost by in Pennsylvania is 2.1%, Michigan is 1.4%, and Wisconsin is 0.9%

What's weird is that votes cast in Pennsylvania have gone up by 361,732 in 2016 and 799,881 in 2020. If that trend continues those votes should have gone up by more than 200,000, as they have in Pennsylvania for the last 28 years with the exception of 2012. However, there is only an increase of 40,508 votes cast compared to 2020. Pennsylvania had more voters register, with as many as over 100,000 registering in July alone, but it also has the lowest increase in votes cast since 2020 of any swing state. It seems that there are a significant number of votes missing.

We should know by now that different areas report at different times and swings back and forth between the candidates are normal and expected until counting is completed.

The only numbers that matter are the final ones.

Not an ongoing count.

In one county there was a delay due to a technical problem that prevented the mail in votes being added to the totals. It required the mail in votes to be rescanned. Since the votes never made it into the total in the first place, this was a count, not a recount.

This was a minor delay in one county. What's the big deal?

Is that incorrect?

"Centre County Rescans 13,000 Ballots After Software Issue Delayed Election Results"

In this case, mail in ballots were scared with a different type of scanner than the in person ballots. When they tried to add the mail in scans to the in person counts, the mail in scans would not work. They had to adjust the mail in scanners to be comparable with the in person scans and then rescan the mail in ballots to get them added to the in person results.

So it was not a "recount" because they could not be counted using the first scan.

But you are right, without that context, a "rescan" might be a "recount". It just wasn't in this case.

Is not evidence of anything. They didn't call the race in PA and stop counting, they called it when it was mathematically impossible for the overall outcome to change, even if every uncounted vote went to Harris. And then they keep counting until the end.

just like he cheated on his previous elections. The vote count is way off - down some 10 million from 2020, despite the long lines and huge rallies. One thing, besides lying that you can rely on Trump to do, is to project - if he accuses someone of something, you can bet he had already done it. And you notice as soon as the election was over, he dropped the "Cheating" meme and got really quiet. He had been hinting for months he had something secret in the works, and did - he, after 3 election's worth of attacking the process, figured out how to change the vote count.

Biden needs to hold off the transition until the vote count has been verified, and the machines examined for hacking - which what I think happened.

Some strange statements from Trump and Elon have fueled doubts about election integrity.
"You can just change one line", Elon stated about the code on electronic voting machines.
"I don't need more votes, I already have votes," Trump stated repeatedly.
So why not take a look?

These cretins can't win fairly so they resort to cheating.

It must mean something. The stranger, the more meaningful.

I've been saying this for days, now. Not conspiracy, we must question when things are off my 12-18 million, warrants an investigation!

is not legally binding.

... is a reality based person. Myself, I've got no issues with that.

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2024, 08:53 AM - Edit history (1)

She gave up her standing in court. Any good lawyer should have told her that. Did you see how long Biden waited? Trump declared victory on the first day.

More specifically, isn’t she a good lawyer?

So, it's very strange that she didn't even wait as long as Biden did to make a decision on the results.

But Gore was a savvy politician who also conceded too soon.

And the Florida Supreme Court and the Federal Supreme Court didn't really use that against him. Though I think W's side brought it up, and of course the corporate media.

I suppose you can rescind your concession. But it sure takes the wind out of your supporters.

Gore conceded in 2000, then withdrew the concession.

I guess I got that from the corporate media. W and the media touted that as a reason he could not counter sue........or was it Kerry?

Anyway, if a Dem does it it's bad but if a dictator Trump lover does it it's okay.

Doesn't mean she can’t unconcede.

Why should we just transfer power over to fascism? We demand a recount!!

You think multiple states, run by Democrats, allowed this to happen?
That is exactly as ridiculous as Trump’s 2020
claims.

If there’s one thing the Rs depend on, it’s that we Dems fall in line on the high road . We wear it as a badge of honor. Meanwhile, they use it to Machiavelli the fuck out of us.

We should not put an ounce of trust in the notion that they would not do exactly to us what they falsely said we did to them in 2020. There’s a conspicuously great reason why we call them projectionists routinely.

I'm tired of this diplomacy shit, we are not going to roll over and take it

Get after it like an attack dog.

The call was for everyone to vote Blue down the ballot! What percentage of women voted for DJT?

apparently over 300 thousand votes were cast for President ONLY in NC?

Deep Forensic Audit (layman's terms).

I fear the extra votes proving malfeasance have been deleted. So there is nothing to count. A deep technical audit (something that our agencies and Five Eyes can do and have done many times before now) would reveal quite a bit. It doesn't take a lot of time but it would need to be done. Who knows? Maybe someone has thought of this... I still say the fat lady has not started warming up her voice yet.

odd is that everything is quiet- seems that they must be investigating it.

They better be doing something, they have to know this stuff. It's the highest office in the land and really the world, so much incentive to cheat.

Get after it like an attack dog.

I have seen stories that Trump got the majority of the Native American vote. …. R you kidding me?
Joe Biden did more for the Native Peoples than just about any non Native American in history.

Btw please check me as per the Trump vote in 24 and Native Americans

We would be foolishly naive not to.

Are we really ready to live in a country with Elon Musk as a shadow president?

like an autospsy we can learn from it .

I'm all for recounts .

people had a fit.

Admittedly, ruling was by a majority GOPer election board and late in game. But it would have added another check on accuracy.

We lost. 50 recounts won’t change that. Wish it would.

Had to have Trump win this. He can’t last going after Ukraine, he’s already getting help from North Korea. In Russia they have “elections” where of course no one but Putin will win. It’s not like they don’t have experience faking elections and we know Trump and Putin appear to be on the same side.
I see no reason why a recount where it is close and in the swing states couldn’t be completed to confirm the numbers given the environment we are in nowadays with election interference. Also didn’t repubs have a whole training program on inserting people into polling locations? Besides all the voter suppression some states rolled out.

..even formed voting oversight committees (of highly dubious constitutionality) in preparation for this election. Outside of whining about Biden, this was the GOP's main focus every single day for the last 4 years.

California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois and Maryland all had 8%-11% swings towards Trump.

Surely all the nasty things that he said on stage that terrible performance at the debate all of these things that he’s done in the last several months can’t have enamored him to other voters. I can see why we would see a swing like that in a blue state.

For years Trump and others have relentlessly claimed that the elections are rigged.

Every accusation from them over that stretch have been more like confessions. It's pretty clever to constantly accuse your opponent of doing the things that you yourself are actually doing.

I thought that the "rigged elections" drumbeat was cover, a way for them to make it more difficult for people to suspect them of rigging elections.

Trump won PA by a little over 2% - and the vote didn't shift in just one or two counties. In many cases, it swung significantly in blue counties. And PA actually swung red less than almost any state in the country.

What theory could explain accidental or nefarious vote irregularities several times larger than those that warrant recounts in all of those blue counties (with blue elections boards)?? Different voting systems and ballot designs and democrats in control of the system... yet someone hacked the whole thing (and in a way that a recount would show it)?

And all while somehow shifting the rest of the county much farther to the right?

This simply isn't logical. It's time to move on from denial

We would have to shift MI/PA/WI - and what theory could explain incorrect counts across dozens of counties that were not controlled in any way by republicans? If it were a 500 vote change in one county you could speculate that someone stuffed the ballot box in that county. But we're supposed to believe that they were able to change the vote in counties they don't control and then went on to make much larger shifts all around the country?

Or am I nutz? 36 out of 50 states shifted to Trump from 1.2 % to 9.8%?

... They are screaming that we lost. As stated above "It is time to move on from denial."

who, where, and above all, if and why Starlink was involved in the election.

.... Don't overlook the thermostats and microwaves also. You never know.

when you're in I.T. in every swing state, you can hack anything. And Trump had some pretty heavy tech bros. pulling for him..

... you can't hack anything, let alone a decentralized and audited voting infrastructure that isn't even connected to the internet.

When you come up with some concrete facts, as opposed to free floating anxiety coupled with conspiratorial fear, uncertainty and doubt, let us know.

I've ever heard that - 'you can't hack anything' - from any IT person.

I will have to quote many a politician and say that I spoke "inartfully".

What I should have said was "you can't just hack anything". Let alone a decentralized and audited voting infrastructure that isn't even connected to the internet.

As noted upstream:

Last edited Wed Nov 13, 2024, 01:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I also did not mention anything about hacker hoodies or the internet. If it's electronic it can be hacked.

... that giant asteroid CAN slam into the earth. In the next ten minutes.

Don't look up.

It's difficult to look in the mirror. We want to deny and not believe. But there just might be a chance that what we're selling, no longer is something being bought. or at least the message as it's being heard and understood isn't being bought.

I wish Truthisall was still here, he would be putting out the probabilities and explaining why trump didn't win.

This to me shows how much they cheated by! Ahhhhh

You might want to look into it. The recount you're talking about, like the one Wisconsin, netted Biden all of 87 votes.

I don't know if you've actually looked at the results but Harris isn't trailing in any swing state by 87 votes lol

Harris is down 31,000 votes in WI, 77,000 votes in MI and 145,000 votes in PA.

You can recount between now and the end of times and they're not going to find that many votes.

If something is found it's not wasted. And you don't know one way or the other.

They've been telling us for years the election was going to be rigged. Believe them.

Because your arguments sound eerily similar to what Trump and his supporters have been saying about the 2020 election.

to the public, via multiple media.

I think it's as inappropriate to quickly shut down any questions people may have about the election processes as it is to continue to promote allegations well after after they have been investigated and shown to have no merit.

I think we should not be ridiculing reasonable questions at this stage on DU. I have no problem with people now raising questions given how surprising the results were. It hasn't even been 5 days since the election was called for Trump, and there are still votes coming in.

As you will recall, they got some recounts. So, by your logic since they got some recounts, we shouldn't entertain doing any for this election because it would be "eerily similar."

Did you miss the part where I said if there is nothing, so be it?

Apparently.

We used to have a little group here, maybe we need to ask the admins for an Election fraud group and I think there was an election integrity ( or lack there of)

Also I would love to see Truthisall back here explaining why the numbers don't make sense.

tens of thousands.

1. Democratic leadership is SPINELESS.
2. The courts would never let it happen.

add one blue state and one solid red state. If nothing is found, so be it. No harm done. Just wasted some money. And it will affirm to anybody who thinks they rigged the databases that the weren't tampered with.

If there are suspicious anomalies it should become apparent doing this.

And frankly, I think they'll find the smoking gun on this one.

Or is the Dem Party leadership just rolling over and letting our country die?

The repubs had 4 years to figure out how to steal the election. Recounts ARE allowed. Period. At least the Dem Party leadership could show that they are trying…

If there is a bonafide reason for a recount in a close race, go for it. Most of these states aren’t that close.

Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Their own recounts even found more votes for Joe Biden. Given the fact that they were desperate enough to set fire to ballot boxes and call in bomb threats, I also wouldn't put it pass them.

The Dem Leadership could easily ask fellow Dems for donations for a recount. And, did they spend every last penny?

I know if they asked, we would come thru..

Because random internet people have more insight than they do?

It’s because there is zero evidence of anything but them losing, and unlike Republicans we do not humor and embrace baseless conspiracy theories and waste money pursuing them.

Right?

At least I am in favor of fighting till the end... and note that quitters never win...

four years ago, I mean that is a choice.

Of course, she ended up pocketing a substantial portion of it.

each state has their own.

If you take a look at ALL of the races outside the presidency, what you see is that almost NOTHING changed.

The Democrats gained seats in the House, just not enough to retake it. (We may be looking at 218-217).
The Democrats lost a couple of seats in the Senate that we were expecting to lose, when we were defending 28 seats and the Republicans were defending 10 (Note this flips in 2026).
No gubernatorial races changed parties (we might actually pick up one that's still being counted).
There was no significant change in the number of state assembly to any party, house or senate, ANYWHERE in the US.

In other words, for such a major change at the top, this race was about as uneventful as it could be.

I think we need to remember this. There was no mandate here for Trump. The Red States voted Red, the Blue States voted blue, the Purple States just EKED into Red Territory, but not by much. Trump actually picked up almost exactly the same number of votes that he did in 2020. Democrats mysteriously did not vote. Why? Harris was popular, well liked, a lot of people were engaged. Nobody likes Trump. Even people who voted for him don't like him.

I'm not going to get into conspiracy theory territory. I don't have an answer that makes any sense, and while there's a lot of armchair quarterback analysis going on right now, the reality is that those people who were fired up just never voted. Huh?

their operations?

There are strong rumors going around that many of the states used the Starlink system to collect the counties vote count.
Elon made a comment about "Change one line of code", the he a Tucker laughed about it, like it is an inside joke. And note that Trump ahs said the already had the vote, way before the elections. Which means he knew a cheat system was already in place. Which is why Don and Elon and been acting like two school boys with a secret they can barely keep. Leon figured how to access the uploaded data and change it.

Now it appears that TX did used Starlink, but in now doing a telephone transfer system, then re- counting the votes. As some one pointed out, the Uvalde, TX area, which has always been blue, suddenly turned red..

Again, Biden has the power to halt the transition until the election has been verified.

We need to investigate all these claims, Jesus it's our democracy
Why did Elon know supposed results 4 hours before everyone else?

I did see a video of a polling official praising Starlink for making the lines go faster.

Why and how was Starlink involved in the election?

Where there's smoke, there's fire. I know that every ballot count and box are supposed to be watched, but it would be worth checking to see in some deep red counties where they seemed to get just enough votes to overcome what they expected in blue areas.

And yes, there seem to be an inordinate amount of split tickets.

Worth checking into. You know if it had gone the other way cheato would be screaming.

Is even more telling that something dishonest was going on.

Pam Keith on X:

Pam Keith, Esq- An under vote, is a ballot that has a vote for POTUS but the rest of the ballot is blank.
Trump’s margin in EVERY swing state appears to be based entirely on under votes.
That’s not just weird, it’s utterly implausible.

You don't necessarily need to do all of the ballots, just spot checking of enough ballots to ensure that what was submitted was what was actually filled out.

to do better and than Biden and Trump to win but the unaffiliated who we needed didn't vote for her and all the other Democrats we needed who voted for Biden stayed home.

As hard as we worked, as extensive as out ground game was, as much money as we donated and spent...it still wasn't enough to bring out our fellow Democrats who voted for President Biden and have them vote for Kamala. Our own peeps left us high and dry.

The numbers in question:
2020 JB 81,283,501
2024 KH 70,858,691
Difference: 10,424,810

❤️
Off Topic:
Just curious...what was the image that now says

postimage
free image hosting
image not found
or was removed

If the Harris/Walz campaign and the DNC and virtually all of our respected leaders are not calling for it, we should not be impugning the integrity of the thousands of election officials and volunteers that enabled us to hold our election.

Let's thank them instead.

"Fighting back when they cheat and steal makes us look like sore losers."

WRONG! It would make Democrats look like they mean what they say:
That they "will fight for us."

No, they won't. They won't fight for us. It would be too "unseemly."

Damn it!
No more donations or post card writing from me, until Dems show some spine.
(I still regret giving Kerry $50, when he folded like a folding chair when Ohio was stolen.)

how many lawsuits did Trump file in 2020? How many got thrown out? Is that what you like?

I'm tired of Democrats conceding quickly, because "it would be unseemly and ungracious" to contest stolen elections.
2000, 2004, 2016, and now 2024.
The naysayers say "where's the evidence?" And scoff at requests for a recount.
That's like the police saying "Bob died of natural causes," and then refusing to do an autopsy.
What happened to The Prosecutor vs The Felon?
She conceded before even doing an investigation- i.e. requesting a recount in certain counties where they were warned the tabulators would be flipped.
Damn it!

13 million missing votes for Harris. I hate to say it, but she lost. We need to stop with republicanesque conspiracy theories. We need to figure out how to get back the people who stayed home to come out and vote D in 2026, 2028 and beyond. We need to figure out what we are doing wrong, and fix it.

If nobody in the US thinks we have free and fair elections it is all over anyway.

nationwide by state line up with Presidential votes. Do the total presidential votes in each state line up with the total House votes? Especially interested in the "swing" states. I'd try it if I had the data. Would a large discrepancy be evidence of fraud?

US Intel Says Insider Threats Are 'Likely' During the Election | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/story/insider-threats-election/

snip

This stark warning was rolled into a situational awareness bulletin on the broader threat landscape faced by election centers heading into the 2024 election. It was published this month by Colorado Information Analysis Center (CIAC), Colorado’s counterterrorism center, which compiles intelligence from federal, state, and local agencies into threat reports shared with its law enforcement partners. This warning comes as election deniers across the US have assumed positions at all levels of the electoral system.

“The entire threat picture is elevated for this election,” Colorado’s Division of Homeland Security and Emergencies Management director Kevin Klein tells WIRED. “I think it’s fair to say that insider threats are a greater concern than in previous elections.”

“Due to the nature of the United States election process, many people are involved in administering or carrying out responsibilities that support elections, all of whom have a potential to be an insider threat,” states the bulletin, which was first obtained by Property of the People, a nonprofit focused on transparency and national security.

If it were them and you know it!
FoxNewsMax would be hounding on this 24/7.

Democrats need to be investigating to put these questions to rest.
Our grandchildren will be asking us 'why didn't you do something?'
We will say, "I didn't want republicanesque conspiracy theories."

Candidates do.

there is no proof, & the dems aren't going to do anything about it if there were.

Harris isn't. Elias isn't. So either they're convinced it really was a razor close race & Trump won, or they're not going to go public with their suspicions. Also...President Biden isn't going to use his SCOTUS pre-approved powers to save our democracy. IMO, all the good he's done over that last fifty plus years of public service will be forgotten. He'll be remembered as the president who had the power to stop the fall but because he was committed to an old play book, he peacefully transferred our democracy to a tyrant.

I think the likelihood of changing the outcome is very small… but I do think something seems weird.
1.) I’ve correctly predicted every election of my lifetime. It’s possible that with the way people consume media has changed so much that they didn’t watch the debates or rallies or news… but it just seemed like she had all the energy and momentum and that usually translates into a win it almost a win.
2.) I don’t know a single person in my life that changed their vote or decided not to vote from 2020 to 2024. Again, I’m not saying that’s scientific, but that’s kind of how I’ve always guessed. My family is mostly swing voters. And who the swing voters in my family go for is usually who the winner is. They all went for Kamala. So it’s just interesting that my Kentucky family went left of the electorate in the swing states.

How the votes were sent, the software on the voting machines, on any tabulator, etc

Too many people even here in MAGA land said they were holding their nose and voting for Harris and absolutely had enough of Trump and his 24/7 chaos. Even the people in his own Administration warned everybody what a tyrant he was and what a disaster a second Trump presidency would be.

Trump, who actually said he was going to free the terrorists that attacked police officers? Even they weren't okay with this and while I'm sure he won this state I don't see how so many people failed to vote in what was described by both sides as "the most consequential election of our lifetime". Or they voted for Democratic senators but then not for Kamala as President?

I may be wrong on this but even if I am, surely the Democrats could find enough spine to challenge this instead of just rolling over. I was going to say something else but didn't as it would most likely be alerted on.

'evil prospers when good people say nothing'

Trump demanded and got recounts in 2020, but Democrats "don't want to rock the boat". If they did cheat, they will continue to do it in all the future elections (think Putin style) and we will have no more fair and free elections.

Perhaps they don't want us to know the truth, because then we'd wake up to the fact that it doesn't.

Instead, I'll tell them, maybe I'll vote next time, maybe I won't. But I'm beginning to believe it's kind of pointless, and if the vote was legitimate, this is the direction America wants to go.

don't question, only conspiracy theorists and republicans are allowed to question.
Bury your heads in the sands of tradition and welcome the transition team.

they should. Really.

It's criminal if they do not. And we are dealing with CRIMINALS.

the candidates do. Not that it matters what I think , but my imagination suggests there is more to this story than state governments tampering with votes, and involves foreign actors. Ducks need to get lined up before word one is whispered. We've been reading about how our cyber-security is not up to the level of other countries. But, whatever...