Right wing media has told white men over and over again that they are special victims, that they are an oppressed group. That is a lie.

It was not "all of that 'patriarchy' talk along with 'toxic masculinity' that turned off young, white men." Rather it was right wing media telling them that they should be turned off.

for their religion in the US.

Should we only say nice things about those fascist political organizations masquerading as churches for fear of alienating the followers?

I am probably out of date on that. Membership and participation in those is in decline. Historically the fascists have used religion to get into power, but then once in power replaced religion with fanatical devotion to the fascist party. Trump rallies over time became more and more like tent revival meetings, with the crowd swaying to music with their eyes closed and arms in the air.

America - the land of the tent revival faith healer and the snake oil salesman. With Trump we get both!

Most of the white middle-aged women who voted for Trump are likely from that cohort of church-going folks. It's still very strong here. Before the election we were already seeing it down here as they tried to infiltrate our school boards in order to take out books they didn't like (w/some success). Democrats always have to put together a coalition of groups to get their votes, and it's very much the same with republicans. When the election results first came out, I was very focused on sexism/racism. That is still strong, but I think the church vote this time really helped them out. There is going to be a lot of pressure from that group to tear down the wall between church and state. They've been chipping at it a long time, but putting people like Huckabee into high positions of power indicates that Trump is going to let them do their thing.

Is that right wing propaganda worked. No Democrats ever said anything like what these guys accuse us of.

Go clear back to the 1960s at least with the Wallace voters.

I didn't know this was be kind to fascists and racists week.

I was engaged in the struggle in the 60s. What is your point about that?

I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on defending them...

PLEASE understand that if we completely eliminated "patriarchy" or "toxic masculinity" or "DEI" from our party platform, these white boys would just invent another reason not to vote for us... That's how the hustle works.

I don't speak for all black folks but I speak for some black folks when I say instead of chasing the MAGA frat bro vote and coddling their aggrieved egos, folks should be more concerned with keeping the black vote intact... Because right now we're feeling betrayed after we did our part for Harris and her 97% flawless campaign... We're feeling backstabbed... That every other major demographic left our asses twisting in the wind... That's what the party SHOULD be concerned about, not about some white dude hurt feelings because a literature teacher made him read a Toni Morrison book...

Well said. Thank you.

Sorry that these little boys got their fee-fees hurt. Maybe if they weren't toxic fans of alt-right incels, they wouldn't be called toxic...

My white husband is not offended by those terms.

white sons are also not offended by those terms. But, they are all decent human beings.

But go ahead and blame Russia and don't look at the things being said in this thread.

I’m not offended by the term toxic masculinity because I know it does not apply to me.

And we’ll have to kick someone out to appease these little entitled pr*cks. They’re not victims by any stretch of the imagination.

After reading the article, it seems as if there’s considerable resistance to DEI and anti-racism. At least one of these young men felt he was forced to be a closeted Republican on his campus — and boy, does he ever resent that. The poor dear. What an opportunity for him to practice empathy, right? But no, he’s the real victim here. Spare me…

is to be the ONLY voices anyone hears.

They want an exclusive hold on all power, they want to be able to decide everything for those they consider less than they are and, spoiler, they consider everyone who isn't white and male to be less than they are.

Entitled pricks indeed.

And many of them didn’t even vote for Obama. They like to bash feminists and talk about how victimized they are because people have pointed out their unearned privilege. It is a waste of time to chase after their votes.

That said, don’t overlook the details about the ways the guy’s family was hurting economically. If it wasn’t, he probably still wouldn’t have voted for Harris, but he might have stayed home or voted third party.

Young women overwhelmingly voted for Democrats. And they don't want to date, marry or have children with these white men who uphold it.

Fuck their feelings... 🙄

They think the world is their oyster, and it is still true to a great extent. They have unearned privilege, and they are stomping mad they have had to share an itty bitty bit of it.

These are the MRAs and incels and general white male supremacists.

I quit caring about them decades ago. They can't be fixed.

Maybe they will before 2026. Right now a very sizable voting block believes Democrats don't represent them, have nothing to offer, and are at best not interested in them, or at worst is hostile to them. And reading some of these replies, it's easy to see how they arrived at that impression.

Those guys are still out there and they're not going away. Democrats can continue to lash out, saying, "those idiots, why didn't they vote for us?" and continue to be mystified at why we lose elections. Or we can make an affirmative argument for why our policies are better for them. Those votes will be up for grabs again. If we don't do something to win them over, they'll default to Trump or his successors.

with that. I know men can be toxic. I am one. But I don't try to convince them of that shit. I lead with common ground to bring them around then we can get to the stuff they call "woke".

They are.
Not sure what you're getting out here though. So we make nice with people that are now telling women "your body, my choice" or worse?
Fuck that noise. I'm not playing nice with people that voted in favor of forcing a 16 yr old girl to bleed to death in a parking lot because her dying fetus is technically "alive".
Since Obama we have bent over backwards trying to accommodate right of center people and it has got us fuck all but it has alienated our Democratic base.

If the Democratic Party can’t expand their base with the largest voting block in the country, they might as well fold up the tent and give the next 20 years to republicans.

Other than Biden in 2020 she got more votes than any Democratic Party presidential candidate in history.
White vote as a voting block is declining. Hispanic and mixed race people are the electorate of the future. The Hispanic vote will likely be locked in for generations to come after the next two years. The Republicans are as incompetent as they are racist. That will become crystal clear in the next couple of months.

You act like we have never won an election.

You cannot change these aggrieved white males. EVER.

This guy didn't want that. He needs to feel superior to some group.

What exactly do you propose? Which disadvantaged groups should Democrats abandon so this guy can feel at least he's superior to them.

I will never forgive these little boys for not using their brains. Poor little feelings they think they’ve been neglected. Maybe we would have more respect for them if they would think and listen every once in a while. They don’t want to get respect in the normal way, they want to be bullies. Sorry, I’m not very understanding of these people. I hope he suffers from it too.

No

The problem is the overwhelming majority of them DO hurt and kill people and voted for that to happen on steroids.

It is exactly this kind of messaging that has the potential to manifest itself. You should know better.

Look at it.

You said "the overwhelming majority of young white men hurt and kill people." Do tell. We're all ears.

some 'data' to a response made over 6 hours ago. So far, nothing. Still working on it?

If it happens to their friends or family, they might.
It's worse than being a toxic male, it's being a man-baby.
These are the boys waiting for someone to hand them the tools and tell them what to do. Other than that, they retreat into their social bubbles.
The world around them is really narrow and sooo comfortably numb, even if they're verging on homelessness.

If they vote, they voted for someone who focuses on them and will tell them they're okay as they are so he's going to make the world around them better for them instead of voting for their Mother who's paying attention to everyone and trying to help everyone else to be and live better.

Haele

The vast majority?

This is exactly what is wrong with our messaging.

We continue to demonize entire populations and then wonder why they won’t vote for us.

You can't fix woman-hating racists. You go after the non-voters or uncommitted.

White males aren't owed one thing from women. Period.

Where have I heard that phrase before?

So fuck 'em

center straight white males in the party and stop talking about women or people of color or anyone but straight white men having silly things like rights, because it hurts their delicate feelings to think that there are other people on the planet who might matter to anyone.

Does that cover it?

childless cat ladies? Or could their complaints be pure misogyny

purge our military, and give Putin admin access to all our secrets...all of that bc the Democrats make you feel like you're the bad guy.

Here's my suggestion. Stop being the fucking bad guy.

judge in their child support case makes it their issue. The lamenting they will do when their pay check gets garnished and their IRS return gets deposited to her account, not theirs.

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2024, 08:20 PM - Edit history (1)

that straight, white men must be centered and catered to in all future campaigns.

They are angry about the fact that they no longer have an exclusive hold on power in this country.

You are actually a bad person. Maybe, his problem was not realizing his actual horrific tolerance for rape, fraud, sex assault, racism, and misogyny.

What's wrong with people? They think of themselves and only themselves.

Unless they were to pay for or assault one, just like their hero.

Of course they can't find women.

FFS, grow the fuck up, Men! If you don't assault women, talk trashy locker-room crap, support women's reproductive health, co-parent, etc., etc., the response to talk about misogyny and patriarchy is not to double-down on misogyny and patriarchy by electing a rapist, it's to tell all the asshole men out there to STFU, treat women as humans and not incubators, etc., etc. "Dude, you're making the rest of us look bad with that talk!" So. Fucking. Easy. And apparently, impossible for the vast majority of men to even imagine, much less respond that way.

who are you talking to?

when we express our frustration with the patriarchy. What you got from that was a feeling personally attacked because I didn’t qualify my comment by saying “MAGA men” or conservative men. Or whatever. If you are telling other men to STFU when you hear them spouting sexist bullshit, then I’m obviously not talking to or about you. So when I say, “Grow up,” this is what I’m talking about.

Meanwhile, my whole life I’ve heard blanket stereotypes about women that don’t apply to me. Gave up yelling, “Not me!” by the age of 20 because I grew up. There is a toxic culture that’s rooted in maleness. Fight THAT, not me.

Do you practice defending women as autonomous beings in a room full of men? If so, it has nothing to do with you.

Are you a shitty man who doesn’t stand up for women in a roomful of men? Well, yeah, this post is about you. Step up to the plate, Mighty Casey.

It's intense man hating. I grew up with two big brothers who I adored and adored me. I like men as much as I like women. Ying and yang, both having different attributes. To read this thread, you'd come away thinking all white guys are abusers and killers. Talk about fringe. It's pathological to have that kind of hatred toward any group of people because of their sex and skin color. Very disturbing to read this.

family members who were ill and dying. I dote after my wife who is disabled. I don't like guns. I'm not competitive. I'm supposed to accept blanket insults of men. Yes, it sounds like man hatred. I wish we could be better. Thank you for saying so.

Maybe we could start demonizing all of the callous meat eaters and see how that sweeping generalization goes over.

You are welcome but do not have thank me for what is basic human decency and the acknowledgment that people are individuals and should be judged accordingly.

It a disgust of patriarchal systems and asking men to be as disgusted and repulsed by them as women are. If men can’t defend a woman’s right to dignity by recognizing female autonomy and defending it vocally and forcefully, they are perpetuating the system and ignoring their participation in the system. The biggest problem seems to be men who read posts raging against the shitty men we all know exist out there and for some reason, they take those posts personally. 🤔

leaving them w/ fewer jobs that offer lower pay. Kind of makes sense. And these people lashed out at the rest of us for their failures as a result. Did they decide to go back to school and re-up their training, get proficient in IT or other new disciplines, so they could land a more higher paying job? No.

Funny thing, this kid appreciates the emphasis on the economy and supposedly building America up (again, sarcasm here). He's going to find out that he is still going to miss the boat/the so-called jobs that tRUMP will promise (tRUMP will probably cancel the Chips Act, that brings jobs in the Semiconductor market back to the US (the Chips Act)).

Again, another failure in progress as we speak. I don't expect anything from tRUMP. Look at them now, they all are acting like school ground bullies at recess time.

AI is finally defined and bought into play/the real world.

Or, do you think that IT and or AI simply just pops up all of a sudden, w/o being developed or tested or implemented, or whatever, just by itself? A little closed minded, I think.

With nowhere near equal job creation. Hence the discussions going on regarding some procedure for "sharing the wealth" generated by AI - which I personally look upon dubiously. Whenever corporations are involved, altruism isn't exactly at the top of the agenda.

and other professionals don't really know what it is yet. It takes lots of time for a new tech to be fully developed and we yet to see its full impact. And claiming that nowhere near enough job losses? How do you support this? Who's going to do the work of developing the AI, the interfaces, putting 'it' in, reshaping Corporate America for the AI, etc.? It's going to take a massive effort, by thousands of techs, either developing the software and/or tech for whatever AI entails. No one truly knows the full scope yet, very similar to what It was like back in the early 70s.

Back then, it was just a concept, and now it's spread throughout the entire business complex in America. The same will happen to AI, as more and more needs are ID'ed, and more and more bodies are added to help develop it, put it into play. There are over 5 million IT jobs for example in America alone, and over 100,000 jobs are hired alone each month in IT alone. What will AI be like? Probably at first, a little bit, and then when more and more needs are ID'ed, more and more will be devoted and then before you know it, another similar 'Industrial Revolution' will occur similar to the IT revolution, only w/ AI, especially when they finally figure out what all AI entails.

It's really exciting and if you want to ride the wave of jobs coming, get yourself into a 1 year class or something similar, there's not going to be much out there at the college level, as these types of jobs in these new tech fields are so new. Good luck to you, I plan on keeping an eye out, being that I'm still not 100% sure what AI will bring. It's so new.

w/ tons of new opportunities. It's a whole wide open field of countless types of new (and unknown too) jobs, usually a lot of the new trainees are people in other jobs, such as in my field (IT programming, systems design, you name it), I had people we hired that were majors in french literature, music, and the like. They say that the Arts are very close to IT, so we hired lots of people in these fields.
Sure they had to go to training (I had a 16 week course in teaching this), but then they were ready to go, and found a new job within the company. Many companies will do the same, train their older jobs to be in these new slots.

Hope he lives long enough to regret it

I'm guessing no, since he voted for Trump.

I've never encountered that in my life (that I'm inherently bad because I'm female).

One of my posts was hidden because animal rights was called a "right wing talking point" and another because I linked to an article at the Daily Mail.

Now, where is that coming from that females are considered bad people?

but I'm going to choose not to. You simply can't be serious. I think you just like getting a rise from people. I don't play those games.

but when you make such a wild statement, don't be surprised if someone asks you to elaborate.

Have a good one.

Yeah, I know your type.

The Trump movement has been perfectly clear about how they feel about women, how they want to treat women, and how they want to troll women. There is no way you missed all that. You are just ok with it.

Do tell what that what this.

Yes, I think it's a wild statement that you made - and you did not say it about the Trump campaign:

women in general are assumed to be inherently bad people because of our gender

And because I asked how came up with that, you say you know my type. I have no idea why you're so hostile when you could just explain why you make that claim. You said "in general" which implies society, at large, believes women are bad because of our sex and I don't agree. Some men, in our society, don't like women is more accurate.

You know, those people that Harris whose ass Harris was supposed to kiss for votes.

is a gullible idiot who fell for his bullshit.

In areas that women make more than men it is usually caused by a combination of education gaps (women have attended and graduated college st higher rates than men this century) and the gutting of many union jobs.

Poor white men are generally poor because they didn't build the skills they need to make a living wage and then likely live in areas that proudly busted unions. They blame their plight on anti white sentiment rather than their refusal to get a credential (1 year, 2 year associate degree, or 4 year degree) in a field with job prospects that pay well.

I remember teaching in an outer suburbs if Dayton st the turn of the century. The local auto plant had a huge article in the Dayton daily news that said that they were phasing out unskilled labor positions and that they suggested people who wanted to work there in the future go to one of the local community college and study robotics operations or repairs.

I mentioned the article in class and how what we were learning in science would prepare them for those classes. I had two parents complain to the superintendent that I lied to their kids because their grandfather got their dad a job at the plant and his dad got him a job and he would be able to do the same for his son even if he was a HS dropout like him.

Seriously, I read the quote directly from the paper of some VP type at the jeep plant. Just trying to prepare students for what comes next.

Those students kids are now old enough to work and blame the Dems and not the billionaire overlords and their lapdog rethug stooges.

But really. All that is just an excuse to be a racist sexist piece of crap who doesn't take responsibility for what happens to themselves.

Messes up International politics the way that he plans to do with his domestic agenda, White men (age 21) will definitely have an active voice in the future. And actually, all young men of a certain age.

It’s called the military draft - fighting, killing and dying.

See, with incompetence in government, especially his plan purging of the military - it might embolden our enemies. And then, conflict/war/police actions, whatever you want to call it. And led by leaders who are totally unqualified, unless you call kissing Trump’s ass a qualification, young men will needlessly die.

I should have said both young men and women of a certain age.

since the candidate for Defense Secretary doesn't think women belong in the military... at least not in combat. So guys, get ready.

will change when the casualties run into the tens of thousands.

And we will discover another strange thing - the rich privileged will not be inclined to join and die for their Country. And a lot of the "real Americans" as the MAGA call themselves won't be inclined to join the casualty honor roll.

So, America First - come on Middle East, Korea, China, Russia - there are so many potential hot spots - and our stable genius will be able to handle one or all of them. Cause as he said, he had an uncle at MIT, so brains run in his family. Which we can all tell based on his vocabulary. (oh, forgot that dementia also runs in that family).

and we all know they think women are useless unless incubating a fetus.

Somehow my three sons managed to overcome this terrible, horrible sexism and vote for Harris.

A bunch of literal babies couldn't bring themselves to vote for a Black woman and I'm supposed to take the blame? Fuck that.

But the voted for the most awful, cruel and dangerously incompetent man on the planet to be leader of the free world.

They may not be bad but they're undeniably selfish and indifferent to other people's suffering.

—faulting him for his gender and sexual orientation

He was highlighting the American people, which we are. It doesn’t matter what color you are, what you may identify as. Since I wasn’t excluded, I resonated with it.

I am an American and Trump is faulting me for my gender and sexual orientation. This kid is just fine with it so long as its not him and they wonder why they get called fascist. Like has he seen one of the 200+ million dollars worth of ad's they spent attacking LGBTQ people?

Bro dude, you are toast

Why can't young white men start policing the incels and Nazis in their group, hunh?

This reminds me of all the young Black and Latino men who go through life being lumped in with gang-bangers and undocumented immigrants. Are young White men like Nic concerned of those young men of color being falsely targeted, also?

How is it that the stereotype of the majority of young white men went from clever, curious and thoughtful team players to smart-mouthed, selfish edge lords and bullies? Maybe these young men should take a good look at the role models in their cadre and stop wondering.

Maybe they shouldn't take it so personally that there's a price to pay with society in general being okay with Toxic people. Maybe they should call out, ridicule, or deny Nazis and Bullies any respect.

Maybe Nic should do something more than indignantly proclaim "Not all White Guys" and actually acknowledge there's a problem that you, Nic, need to do more than just pout about.
Actions mean more than words.
And Nic, by voting for *rump knowing full well what a corrupt, destructive man-baby he is, showed all of us what type of Young White Man Nic is.
Nic now owns this. He can get blamed for all the problems, pain, and death other people are going to experience.
Sorry for being harsh, Nic - but actions have consequences, even for someone that feels they've been dis-respected and blindly strikes out.

Haele

Cry me a river.

Are lazy as fuck and entitled.

The young women are more driven.

These young males want to split half the bills with women, and then have her clean up after their lazy behinds and do everything in the house. Women aren't easily controlled these days and they resent that.

Lazy, entitled, and useless are great descriptions of a whole lot of them..

I do see men (and women) who voted for him as inherently either bad or profoundly stupid people.

There I said it. I mean it.

Good luck voting for orange conman.

They will find themselves even more broke and no woman would even want them, not even the desperate ones.

The most common take away is "What a fucking irredeemable idiot!".

the fascist ideology or just voting for the fascists? That is total BS, the bully posing as victim.

Tired of these men and their victim complex of its because I'm white and a male...bitch you have the most privilege in the land of shit. So maybe act like a gentleman than a little boy in his edgelord phase.

I've been blamed for why we lost now like I predicted. So why should I give a shit?

There is no room in my life for them and once gone, never back again unless on hands and knees begging for forgiveness, and maybe not even then, depending on extenuating circumstances.

how anything works, so I voted for Trump."

So what are Democrats supposed to do – become hateful racists, bigots, and misogynists, turn on the firehose of disinformation, attacks, and lies as do Republicans.

nor have fallen for his bullshit about "protecting women"--

he meant to say "stalking women" but his dementia got the words confused...

We have a choice. Either we can respond with snark and cynicism, or we can evaluate the ways that those with money are trying to divide us. I think we need to focus on the latter or else we will cement our own demise.

Joe Rogan? What is all this shit?

Straight young white male actually thinks Trump cares about someone other than Trump.
Harris promised to help everyone, lift everyone up, which of course includes young white males like himself. He doesn't want others helped because he needs to continue to feel superior to minorities for personal validation. Sad.

and had elements of sexism, racism, frustration over the economy and the bleak future (can't afford a house, McDonalds is now ridiculously expensive, when it used to be a fast, cheap meal, wages aren't rising to meet costs), but yes, we should examine how we can better market ourselves to all subgroups.

This doesn't mean we fundamentally change who we are. It's an advertising/marketing issue. We need ads that are reaching ALL groups. We need ads that are targeted at 21 year old white guys, just like we go after the Black men's vote, and the white suburban women's vote and the Hispanic vote. It's just smart math to leave no stone unturned and go after EVERY group because to write off any subgroup means we leave a lot of votes on the table.

But yes, if ANY subgroup of voters is saying "we don't feel connected. We don't feel like we belong and are a valued part of the party because of your messaging..." that is something we need to examine.

There is a definite communication issue that the left has reaching out to white guys that leads them towards the right. I'm just going to give my personal experience I'm a white guy I grew up poor in the projects with poor people of all races. We all black,white,hispanic were poor our families relying on welfare to not even make ends meet just to get closer to make ends meet. We all went to the same shitty public schools and shared basic life experiences. But as we got older my black and Hispanic friends they're told hey you're in this situation cause racism and other political factors stacked the deck against you. Meanwhile I'm told I have privilege and white men in particular are what has caused these issues. Meanwhile I'm sitting there like what privilege I'm in the same economic situation as them my mom skips meals so I can eat just like theirs. If white people have stacked the deck how the fuck am I in this situation I shouldn't be. I ended up not going right or left in politics instead going for a I don't care attitude because they're both out to fuck me for alot of years. But now we live in an age where it's easier to take people who feel disenfranchised and turn them into radicals. I mean this story shows it perfectly dude voted for a radical not because he agreed with his positions but because he didn't feel like the other and the outsider.

I'm not saying throw any group under the bus to get these people into the fold but maybe go to the places like Joe Rogan that these people have gravitated towards and talk to them as humans also. Because most of them not all but most are probably decent at heart and brought into that sphere because they found community they felt they didn't have.