The devil is in the details- the details being Harris’ share of women’s votes broken down by age and race, and the turnout of women by age and race.

A few dozen more young women and black women per precinct in each blue wall state, and Harris would likely be president elect right now.

This is a number that only sways a percent plus or minus since 1974. This is one of the reasons why the ERA never passed. No matter what, 45% of women vote conservatively due to upbringing, family or religion.

This 45% is not for just this year but for a solid 40 years.

This is a good resource. https://cawp.rutgers.edu/

Note: I updated my previous post with a link.


Legislation to address some of the gender biases helped to take the pressure off of the need to pass The ERA, so there isn't that force to get its passage. Feminism went through several stages, but the lens addresses parity of the genders. The lens of feminism for conservatives and the orthodox sees its objective as being a wife and mother. Those social forces are difficult to overcome.


Here's a post from 2022 where I wrote a similar post. There are a bunch of others too.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217445416#post52


Here's a 2015 one discussing Phyllis Schlafly.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251443961#post30

And the Pew exit poll analysis will almost certainly confirm that.

and in other news, what would you expect in a patriarchal society?..Like all oppressed people, women internalize the low esteem in which they're held by the Dominant group and that's projected, not only onto themselves, but onto others of their kind. It's called "internalized misogyny".

Apart from that, there are always people who vote against their own interests -- Consider all the Hispanic men who voted for Trump.

I have no doubt V.P. Harris lost because of:

1) being a woman; 2) being half African-American; 3) being half Indian-American.

I also read that Kamala received 53% of the female vote.
It might take a little while for me to figure this out, but it at first seems like Kamala had the female vote and the shortcoming was by the male voters.
Like I said, I'm having a hard time figuring this out.

that Trump is masculine when in fact he is the daintiest motherfucker

Asking for a friend.
Men instant beer buds. Women shop and cat fight. Thanks, I’ve been believing my deceiving eyes.

Female here. I hate to shop and catfight, but I also don't like beer. What to do?

The link goes to exit poll statistics only.

Just because men voted for Trump in huge numbers, it's not their fault Trump won. We should blame women, the majority of whom voted for Harris, for Harris loss.

What a load of misogynistic crap this is.

How so?

This is explicitly blaming women for Harris loss even though far more women voted for Harris than men. What else would you call that? It's really rather sickening how this person twists himself in knots to blame women rather than men. Disgusting.

point out a statistical fact - that Kamala received a smaller percentage of female votes than Trump received among male votes. How can you not see this to be of relevance to why we lost the election? Again, had Kamala received even the same 55% of female votes that Trump garnered among men, Kamala would have won. Figuring out why we didn't get that additional 2% (or more) of the female vote is how you win the next election where a woman is at the head of the ticket. And, please spare me the "there will never again be a female candidate for President." We're Democrats. We break down barriers. That's what we do.

(from CNN exit polls - and we know these are imperfect)

55% of men voted for Trump
45% of women voted for Trump

Why shouldn't Democrats focus on MEN and getting their support (as well as getting support from everyone else)? There are more potential votes to pick up from them than from women.

Because Harris ran specifically on gender inequality and women's rights as a major issue, it is significant that women did not see that as a driving force determining their vote.

If Harris had not made that an issue on which she was running, then it would, as you say, be misogynistic to consider the voter's gender or sex in evaluating the decision between Trump or Harris.

We can't assume anything about the women who voted for Harris regarding misogyny. We can assume for white women voting for Trump that they either did not believe Trump to be a misogynist or that they valued White privilege over women's issues. I would argue that women who voted for Trump are both racists and misogynists.

White men voting for Trump are probably both racists and misogynists. But not necessarily. White men could have been voting for Trump merely because it was in their best interests and not have considered the repercussions for anyone else.

It's this.

You are really twisting yourself into a pretzel here.

If only women had voted in this election, Harris would have won in a landslide.

Escape even the merest hint of scrutiny.

It's the Principal Skinner meme in large print.

otherwise it's just meaningless finger pointing.

Sure, we're all disappointed and angry right now, but what we're doing now is just further alienating those folks you want to "win back."

Look at Dems all over pointing fingers at Latinos, Muslims, white woman, men and viciously degrading them. Most of the hate is directed at Trump voters, but people outside of political circles will see that. RW media will also see that and use it against us in a pac probably. Were supposed to be the party of level heads n inclusion. We need some self introspection & understanding right now

on the exact same platform as Kamala's. He'll win in a landslide.

We need to acknowledge the racism and misogyny lurking among our own, and among our allies.

I hate that we have to do it, but we have to do it, and it's all we have to do to win. (Unless of course things are rigged like Russia next time. Which is a distinct pissibility.)

But maybe when we do face that creepy fact, we can stop cannibalizing ourselves the way this and other articles are insisting we do.

that will make excellent presidents.

Of course, Hillary or Kamala would have been as well.

Or even straight or middle aged.

Just has to be a man.

Since the election, even here on DU, I have seen a resurgence of white men discounting the concerns of everyone else. One poster, for example, opined to much agreement, that no one cares about abortion because only a small percentage of the population gets abortions. That's just one example of the jaw dropping shit that is infecting even this place.

This very thread is all about how " dudes bond, bro, and women just tear each other down. That's why trump won!1!!" That's stunningly idiotic, and provably false but its getting lots of agreement and not a lot of pushback.

I suspect there are those on our side who know they will benefit over the years to come and are secretly not very bothered.

It will be worse when the next election gets here. If it ever gets here.

I agree that gender is possibly their strongest objection, but the others are there as well. We can't take any chances.

That the electorate prefers a man in the White House. It's painfully obvious.

but simplisticly blaming it all on white women won't do that.

"Trump won because men bond and women tear each other down!1!!"

And someone took the time to copy and paste that shit to spread it around.

I despair.

then I do feel sorry for them.

NO critically minded and thinking Woman is going to want them.

Really?

?itok=Y6vvF-JO

the low esteem in which the dominant group holds them..If you and those like you are treated like shit long enough, you start believing it..It's one of the most tragic aspects of oppression.

--societal misogyny and racism
--low education (huge difference between college-educated voters and others--for whites and Latinos/Latinas)
--misinformation/disinformation (polls show Trump voters got many facts wrong)
--etc.

…the Catholic Church told them to……the minister told them to….they are idiots

women can advance, women can politic effectively, women can some day be President (as in other command positions in other countries, elected or selected in other means). We are our own best enemies arguing among ourselves mostly and men take advantage of it.

In Georgia I was able to vote at age 18 male or female. Every time I had a chance, I voted for a woman because the importance of female politics is critical to moving forward in this nation toward other command positions.

Again this year, I voted for every single woman on the ballot for any level of elected positions. None were just because "woman". ALL were because they were the BEST CHOICE of the candidates. This year's choices of women were not the best out there, but the men were worse. This is the truth, friends, (male and female,and "teach your children well".

I am 79 years old and I keep trying to vote for female candidates whenever I can. We need to start explaining to all citizens what we want in a candidate we would enthusiastically vote for: and then do it!

finally: this year, I was harshly criticized by many friends and others who were horrified that I did not support Trump and they did. I would not have supported Trump if he had been campaigning against any other candidate because of his "platform" and "criminal behavior".

Keep offering these messages if you are male or female to friends, family and even people who keep supporting Trump. We have to get this through the heads of our peers.
and also: "teach your children well". Maybe they will figure it out.

Trump will visit bad shit onto all those other people. but he would never ever do anything to harm me!

Until he does, and when the wakeup call comes it will be too late.

Not all men. Some good men voted for Kamala. Voted for what is right. But other men, and the majority at that, were perfectly fine with voting for Trump because .....

Being in a fox hole and focusing on why the enemy is shooting at you instead of focusing on why some of the folks in your own trench aren't shooting back.

They didn't even try to hide that. And a lot of men voted accordingly.

So yeah, a lot of guys were a holes as you said. And here we are.

But what percentage of that 45% did it out of fear, or submission to their man? Men had no such fear. Some women probably did.

All we needed was an additional 2% of women to vote for Kamala. It's a reach to suggest that the vast majority of women who voted for Trump did so "out of fear or submission to their man." That, in my opinion, is not being accountable for what actually happened.

This is the environment that they have created. This is the environment that many women are now living in and with.

For most men the election did not have consequences. The same cannot be said for women.

group who didn't vote for Kamala would have accomplished the same thing, so why do you keep harping on women?

That is why Kamala could not get 55% of the women's vote.
She campaigned smart. She was a great candidate. But she could not overcome food inflation.
Inflation was the main reason for her loss. More women shop at grocery stores.

That said, we all had long since accepted that higher food prices were essentially going to be the cost of our support for Ukraine. Money over blood.

May be your family can afford higher food prices.

There are rich people in every country. Even Guatemala, Venezuela, Zimbabwe have some very rich people.

so good luck with that piece of rocket surgery.

In fact, what is it that dumb motherfuckers think Cantaloupe Caligula did or will do to keep prices low?

Weapons grade stupid.

I have never been a fan of tariffs. My main point again is, for whatever reason the inflation spiked, it was the main reason for losing the presidential election. That is my honest opinion. You are free to disagree without getting angry.

Maybe one day I won't exist angry again, it is no longer a matter of getting that way and not directed at you in particular.

Wilfully making prices higher as the response to high prices is insanely stupid regardless of my emotional state though so I feel it a distraction.

None of this is my fault... I was trained from an early age to recognize fascism etc. and would never vote for it. I was polled by an R poll on the phone in 2016. She asked me tons of questions, one was- some voters change their mind would you ever vote for the psycho... I said emphatically, I will never vote for that lunatic under any circumstances.

But I really don't get all the posts defending men for their role in it.

to tear each other down"

That's not my experience.

This is your understanding?

Wow.

I'm thinking Friday night must be misogyny night here. This shit is weird. I'm out.

As a lesbian, I find your characterizations laughable. I hang out with a lot of women who never tear one another down. We help each other, in ways large and small.

This is like wading into the 50s.

Did you not read the OP I replied to?

Why be rude to me?

Would you have felt better if I did +1?

No, neither have I, and that's because it's nonexistent in patriarchal society.

Internalized misogyny, on the other hand, is common for reasons that should be obvious...Women, like all oppressed people, tend to internalize the low esteem in which they're held by the dominant group. ..When people are continually treated as "less", they come to believe it, and project it onto themselves, and the others of their kind..It's one of the most tragic consequences of oppression.

Please reply to OP to air your grievances.

with an answer...For some reason now, it's you who seems to want to "air grievances".

Goodbye.

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2024, 01:11 AM - Edit history (1)

They scared a lot of white women with the trans ad and the border stuff. White men voted for him in droves though.

they vote Republican in huge numbers. If you count only white xtian men it's even larger.

Next time we have a woman at the top of our ticket, would you rather try to persuade 2% more women to vote Democrat or 2% more men?

Lyndon Johnson in 1964. It hasn't happened since. That's right. 4 Democratic Presidents, 2 of them 2 term Presidents. Trump ran an overtly racist campaign and it worked. He was rewarded. Yes race was only 1 factor,
but let's just be real here.

It's a fact that White women went for Trump (not just

There, I fixed your headine.

college education who went for Trump.

There, I fixed your headline.

now didn't he?

by a smaller margin, get the educated white male vote as well. That contrasts to the majority of educated white females who voted for Kamala.

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2024, 02:53 PM - Edit history (4)

It's those teeny tiny dollhands he's got. Likes to put them everywhere he does....
.
.Hitler had his harem of adoring female fans as well.
.
Many German women supported Adolf Hitler during his rise and rule due to a mix of propaganda, cultural norms, and policies that catered to traditional gender roles. The Nazi regime emphasized women's roles as mothers and homemakers, awarding honors like the Mother's Cross for having large families. This, along with extensive propaganda portraying Hitler as a paternalistic, charismatic figure who could restore Germany's pride, contributed to a significant following among some women. However, this sentiment was not universal, and women's attitudes toward Hitler varied widely, with some opposing or resisting the regime.

-ChatGPT

Maybe they enjoy his 'teeny, tiny dollhands' even more.

It not necessarily a gender thing

...fwiw.

It’s beyond fucked up. The actual problem goes way deeper then gender

And defections by men of color made up for Harris’ gains among women, more of whom voted for her than voted for Biden.

There is some serious blanket generalization and stereotyping going on here. I’m not saying all women are nice. Far from it. But personally, when I went from female-dominated environments in my youth to hanging out with a boyfriend’s all-male crew, I was struck by how often the boys made in-your-face mean jokes putting each other down. Maybe they wouldn’t have done it if there wasn’t a woman present, I don’t know. Not saying women never put each other down, but we are at least subtle about it. And let’s not even get into how easily some men will betray a buddy to pursue a romantic prospect.

I think both genders are competitive and mean to same-sex rivals, just in different ways. This notion that cat fighting lost Dems the presidency is deeply misguided.

If your point is that we need to address why some women voted against their own interests, I agree. But many Latino men similarly voted against their own interests. It’s a lack of engagement with trustworthy news sources and exposure to social media misinformation in both cases, among other things. It is not about those groups’ inherent gender or racial identities.

to focus exclusively on the grievances of straight white men.

But, basic math: 45% is fewer than 55%. But sure, it's all the women's fault. You seem really invested in denigrating women.

And the non-white people, and the non-male people, and "the gays" and everyone except straight white men, they must be held blameless for everything in all circumstances.

Most women and men of color voted for Harris.

There was a slight shift of Hispanic men and black men to Shitler but the white men are the biggest problem (and the patriarchy-supporting women).

spend a vast amount of time scrolling social media and people are directed to like mind. All they are seeing is lies from Trump, and tons of people validating those lies. They lay in bed until late at night, night after night reading this shit and never do the research or look for facts or sees the reality.

We have a whole generation of younger men being fed by podcast on toxic masculinity that is essentially changing how they thinking into really weird shit, then they can't get a woman because it is dumb shit but they swear this is their reality.

So many of the Trump voters have no clue what the real election was about.

At least that's what I heard yesterday.

Not sure I trust corporate media to do an honest analysis of the exit polls.

And when everything is counted. I want to know how many of them are bullet ballots and how many were counts sent through Musk's Skylink systems.

And why are we assuming Trump didn't cheat, when he cheats on everything even in a stupid game of golf.

and don't compete with them. They're the smartest, most interesting people I know. If the women you know decsribe other women the way you did, I'd seriously question just what kind of women you're choosing to spend your time with.

I say all the time, if anything ever happened to my husband- I'm marrying my girlfriends and living platonically happily ever after with them.

Like they did in the 1890s.

Similarly, the reasons women vote for Harris and the reasons men do may not be the same.

So nobody is blaming one or the other. It helps to take things apart to analyze them sometimes.

And he's complaining that people are blaming men. A misogynistic creep.

Women clearly didn't coalesce around one of their own. 45% of women voted for a rapist rather than another woman. That is appalling. And, it's worth asking why they did so. I know it's an uncomfortable subject. Nobody wants to look within their own circle and find fault. It's always so much easier to blame someone else and call them names - including "creep". That's the simple way out of any difficulty - wash your hands and claim you and yours had nothing to do with it. But, doing so is likely to result in the same outcome next time - since you will have done nothing to address the real source and extent of the underlying problem.

Gender, ethnicity, religion, class, educational level, sexual orientation, etc is irrelevant.

blatant efforts to divide us?

This one says, "Democrats lost because men bond and women tear each other down!!!11!"

It is written to look like something from the BBC. But when you click the link, it brings you to a different article. This is just the OPs opinion, apparently. And it seems newly minted from 1950.

Things that make you go, "Hmmmm...."

The poster has been around or a while. I don’t think he’s trying to divide us, but rather convince us that women’s issues aren’t important to women? I agree about the 1950s thing. It seems for some here (not necessarily OP) the Democratic Party tent got large enough and civil rights got expanded enough at some point in the last century. This election results are being used in way too many topics to place blame on marginalized groups while we give a pass to white America as if we assume it’s invariably majority sexist or racist.

So many go unchecked here, I have started trashing many of them.

Has that changed in this new millenium?

My thoughts too, plus I think someone pointed out it was 45% of non college educated women.

careful with the stereotypes. men have a much much higher rate of violence against each other.

Last edited Sun Nov 17, 2024, 03:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Again, I know it's uncomfortable to address the issue. But, why 45% of women (regardless of age, race, religion or socio-economic class) would "hold steady" and vote for a candidate with a long history of sexual predation requires an explanation. I'm a man. I don't assume to know the answer. I'm only offering some of what I've heard from the women I know. One thing's for sure though - if every attempt at addressing the issue of why women voted the way they did (in this specific election where a rapist won) is going to be knocked down as misogyny, then that will be a massive lost opportunity to better not just our party, but maybe our society as well.

My point is that we aren't starting fresh every election. The vast majority of voters are tied to a particular party and, even if not to a specific party, to voting a particular way. That's why the polls ask party and, if you claim no party affiliation, they ask how you lean. Absolutes mean nothing, except among new voters. What is telling is how voters move, and women voters did not move toward Trump.

I would love for women to have moved away from Trump, but at least they didn't follow the men, minorities, low income, and youth, and shift toward Trump.

What I did say was the following...

Maybe this willingness on the part of the American female electorate not to have as a default position a willingness to support another person of their own gender had something to do with what happened to Kamala. I don't know. But, it would seem to me that the answer to this question is the most important one to answer if the U.S. is ever to elect a female President.

What amazes me is that a lot of people here have decided (wrongly) that this election required that either one group or another group was solely "to blame." That's nothing short of hogwash. The more I sift through the data, the more I see how clearly this was a group effort to screw up what should have been an easy win for our Party. Seriously, how did Kamala get 7% fewer young female voters than did Biden four years earlier? How is that even possible? But, what you (and others here) are very clearly iterating is that asking these kinds of questions is inherently misogynistic, that only one demographic group was "to blame" for this loss - that it was all mens' fault - and that no further introspection is necessary. Intertwined with this view is a complete surrender to the possibility of any woman ever being elected President in this country (despite the fact that female voters outnumber male voters), with people here openly saying "America will NEVER be ready for a woman." So, rather than women asking themselves what could they have done differently (independent of whatever the hell men do) , you'd prefer absolute gender defeatism? Seriously?

I'm a man. Maybe it's tough to hear these questions coming from a man. Maybe it's easier to name call and act like all the election data will "miraculously be gone" by April - as Trump said would happen with Covid. It won't be though. As with Covid, we've got a difficult four years ahead of us, during which time we have to live with our mistakes. And, for some of us, time is running short. My own Mom, whom I have mentioned several times on this board, is 90 years old. She was extremely invested in Kamala winning. She knows that it's not only possible but that it's long past due. Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Nicaragua and Honduras have all elected female Presidents. So, if it's possible in all those countries, each of which prides itself on their machismo, why the hell isn't it possible in the U.S.? Because "it's all men's fault?" What a tidy excuse...that does nothing more than cover over some far messier issues that were apparently blown wide open during this election.

I countered that with facts which demonstrate that women held steady, while multiple other demographic groups shifted toward Trump. So if you want to shift blame away from your demographic, Trump, stop pushing it toward women, which is one of the few demographic groups which did not shift toward Trump.

Also, you will not find a single post of mine, ever, in a which I blamed a single demographic group of voters for this loss, it any other. So walk that tired dog elsewhere.

You also seem willing to disregard the fact that young women did not "hold steady." They went with Trump in larger numbers in 2024 than in 2020. A disturbing outcome when you consider that - by the end of the campaign - Trump was routinely, in his rallies, referring to Kamala as "stupid." This was nothing short of public abuse on a national scale. And, despite this, women as a whole - as you say - "held steady." Women can choose to explore the issue. They can choose not to do so. But, whatever they do, it's going to affect all of us - men and women - the next time any woman runs for high office.

Now that I've pointed out the flaws in that reasoning as to women, as a whole, you've shifted to a subset of women.

There are a lot more women's rights issues that need attention. When you spend so much time on one, people who have others at the top of their list feel left out. We needed a broader message, but went too deep on topics that didn't resonate as much as we thought they did.

just as misogynistic as men. In fact, they can be more so, when powered by jealousy. Which leads to spiteful actions.