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Dennis Donovan

(26,245 posts) Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:53 AM Nov 19

The Times: Russia steps up talk of using nuclear weapons as Ukraine fires western missiles

The Times - Russia steps up talk of using nuclear weapons as Ukraine fires western missiles

Kremlin changes doctrine to lower threshold for retaliation hours after Kyiv is said to have used US-supplied ATACMS long-range missile for first time

Tom Ball
Tuesday November 19 2024
11.45am GMT
The Times

Moscow will consider the use of nuclear weapons in retaliation to attacks on its territory with western-supplied weapons, the Kremlin has said, hours after Ukraine was said to have carried out its first strike on Russia with an American long-range missile.

On the 1,000th day of war between the two countries, President Putin approved an update to Russia’s nuclear doctrine, lowering the threshold at which it would consider a nuclear strike.

The revision states that an attack with conventional missiles, drones or other aircraft by a non-nuclear state that is supported by a nuclear-armed one could meet the criteria for a nuclear response.

It also said any aggression against Russia by a state which was a member of a coalition would be considered by Moscow to be aggression against it by the whole coalition.

The revision also significantly widens the triggers for possible nuclear retaliation compared with the previous version of the document.

/snip

8 replies

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The Times: Russia steps up talk of using nuclear weapons as Ukraine fires western missiles (Original Post) Dennis Donovan Nov 19 OP

I hope they are reminded that any fallout heads East. GoCubsGo Nov 19 #1

Who would they nuke? ChicagoRonin Nov 19 #2

That was my belief initially too... Mike 03 Nov 19 #4

Idiocracy with nukes jfz9580m Nov 19 #5

If they brought out nukes, they'd be pushed out of Ukraine and the Black and Baltic Seas by NATO in a day. nt Gore1FL Nov 19 #3

Nuclear fear mongering is perhaps Russia's most successful psyop ever. In reality Putin's red lines are fictitious. LetMyPeopleVote Nov 19 #6

Exactly! Hate to see people on DU falling for it. Crunchy Frog Nov 19 #8

Yeah they do a lot of talking. Their only doctrine is what Putrid chooses to do. Crunchy Frog Nov 19 #7

GoCubsGo

(33,073 posts)

1. I hope they are reminded that any fallout heads East.

Reply to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:59 AM

Nov 19

Right back over them.

ChicagoRonin

(706 posts)

2. Who would they nuke?

Reply to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:14 AM

Nov 19

Even if we're talking low-yield tactical nukes, Ukraine isn't some faraway country.
I don't know what regional weather patterns are like over there, but I'd assume the possibility Russia would contaminate itself are pretty high.
Plus, part of the point of attacking Ukraine was to seize the land. Especially the fertile farmland.

Course, Russian leadership could prove just as science illterate and stupid as they are ruthless and do it anyway.

Mike 03

(16,995 posts)

4. That was my belief initially too...

Reply to ChicagoRonin (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:40 AM

Nov 19

Why would you nuke the breadbasket of Europe (the world, really) when one of your motives is to capture it? But the more I read about Putin, the more I came to realize the tricky phrase in Russia's nuclear doctrine is "existential threat." Putin, like somebody else we know, is only self-interested. When he says anything that poses an "existential threat" to Russia can be met by a nuclear response, I think he's really saying anything that poses an "existential threat" to his dictatorship, his wealth, his freedom. Even anything that severely embarrasses Putin could provoke a response.

Also, in Bob Woodward's new book WAR, U.S. intelligence came to believe there was, at one point in 2022, a 50% he would use a tactical nuclear weapon. Thankfully, Lloyd Austin got them to back down.