I can’t see a recount happening, as a practical matter, but by gods I wish there were some deus ex machina that could change this effing timeline.

I don't think people buying into this stuff are off as lone voices in the wilderness.

It's the people asking for, you know, actual evidence who are non grata at the moment.

Funny little world. I remember when we disliked this sort of thing. Two weeks ago.

I accept that, but i had to say how i feel.

I don’t believe the election was rigged but if a recount helps some progressives feel like their vote wasn’t wasted, I’m for it.

They know i'm sure. BUT for the sake of our country i wish it would change. The country is gonna change beyond what we've ever dreamed possible.

Until/unless progressives create and sustain a media ecosystem that can hold its own against the RW media and complicit MSM, it’s going to take a lot of suffering for folks to believe their own eyes, ears, stomachs and wallets over what they are being spoon fed online.

They did in 1776! Yes, 1776.

voters to reject TSF. Am now hoping that cutting programs for the poor and disabled will change MAGA minds. Most of the djt voters in my area are on Medicaid and SSecurity Disability.

But isn't that shameful? Actually find myself hoping people grow so miserable and desperate that they finally regret their votes and find their way out of a cult.

Abortion measures in several Trump states got majority support, which I find bewildering.

Because confidence in institutions is vital for the continuance of democracy. If every time something doesn't go our way we start throwing doubt on everything and trying to tear it down, we're damaging the democratic foundations we claim to champion.

That's why Trump is so dangerous. It's not just his ego and narcissism. It's that he's blasting through norms, systems, and institutions to service it. That's where the damage is.

Biden and Harris know you don't start this sort of thing idly, without evidence, just because people on the Internet are having feelings. If we based policy on social media feelings, K-12 would be taught in meme format, TikTok would win Oscars, and the NY Times would be all celebrity gossip.

I am astonished at how quickly this pivot to Trumpish rhetoric is being managed. Not saying this is you, OP, but just the not insignificant eagerness to goad authoritarian measures, buy into fact-free supposition, and a belief that "We just don't know!" is an affirmative argument to start believing stupid shit peddled by whatever grifter comes along.

It's Al Qaeda all over again. AQ couldn't beat us, but our reaction to them could fuck up our freedoms. So with Trump. He's bad enough, but our reaction to him can determine how democracy manages going forward. And right now, I see an alarming number of people warming to the idea of chucking reason and norms for feelings and spite.

I'm hoping this is some kind of temporary crazy and not the norm going forward. Otherwise an already long four years is going to be that much longer.

And long after Trump's gone, as with AQ, we'll continue paying for it.

crazy enough to game the system. the system being a system of ballots being oh so secret and counted by computers that can be hacked.

show us our votes is all we are asking. recounts now and tomorrow

enough of the bs we sound like trump!

You know what does? GOTV efforts prior to elections. We didn't do that very well this year. We often don't.

We should do it better, I think.

This is kinda what my goal is. We will always wonder if somehow the have been cheating? I'm just saying this is ONE time to find out. That's all i'm thinking now.

We had a robust GOTV initiative. Problem is that stuff no longer works. Knocking doors doesn't seem to help anymore.

the enormous ramifications of this election.

Steven Spoonamore on The Thom Hartmann Program Live (11/18/2024) - 02:16:30 - 02:28:45 -

The Steven Spoonamore interview starts at approx. 02:16:30 to 02:28:45. [link:https://www.youtube.com/live/5s4iCxtf_Js

https://www.youtube.com/@thomhartmann/videos - https://www.thomhartmann.com/


Data Scientist's Shocking Call for Election Recount Raises Scary Questions! w/ Stephen Spoonamore
[ link: https://wwwDOTyoutubeDOTcom/watch?v=RJR5uQpweko ]

Stephen Spoonamore - Duty to Warn Letter - to VP Harris - Re: Election 2024 - Nov 15, 2024 - https://substack.com/home/post/p-151721941

https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324.pdf
November 15, 2024
Honorable VP Kamala Harris
The White House
Office of the Vice President
1600 Pennsylvania Ave
Washington DC 20500
Dear Madam Vice President.
This is my second Duty to Warn Letter regarding hacking of the 2024 Presidential Election. The first letter on November 7 was directed to Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Officials. Both warnings are made per DNI Clapper’s 2015 directive to all agencies and contractors associated with intelligence and financial agency technologies to warn of suspicions of hacking.
Professionally I have worked as the CEO or CTO at seven high technology firms including two which specialized in hacking and counter-hacking operations. My clients have included numerous governments DoD, DHS, Dept. of State, F100 Financials and F500 Industrials.
I am a lifelong Republican who has long placed service and participatory democracy over party. In government, I have twice been invited to SoCom to give lectures on electronic warfare and techniques to find terrorist money laundering and gave a keynote speech of the National Counterintel Summit on this same topic. I served as an after-action reviewer of communications and data failures on 9/11 under the direction of Jim Woolsey and FDNY Commissioner Scopetta, and later co-wrote multiple hacking risk analysis of Smart Grid technologies for the Obama administration.
You should reverse your concession, call for both a full investigation of criminal activity and demand hand recounts in all seven swing states.
In my professional view there are multiple and extremely clear indications the Presidential vote was willfully compromised.
I wholly agree with the public letter of Duncan Buell, et. al. of Nov. 13th stating they believe there is a possibility of hacking and calling for hand-recounts.
https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324.pdf
This letter’s clear call to action is commendable, but its cautious tone may belie the severity of what I believe has happened. In my view it is a near certainty the results have been changed at a scale which reversed the US Presidential Election. They imply there is a chance a hand-recount will show you won more votes. I am stating a hand recount will most likely show you did win. Both letters call on you to act.
In my view, a capable and skilled series of exploits, electronic tools and hacks were used to change the Presidential vote in all seven swing states. These activities have reversed the outcomes in at least Arizona, Michigan, North Carolina, and Wisconsin. I will lay out the basics of the attack, starting with unusual elements within the results. I will then outline two processes which could have been followed to insert these false results into the system. Finally I will outline how I would recommend investigating.
Unusual elements within the results.
The results of the attack are improbable in the extreme and well tailored to the sole benefit of your opponent.
Approximately 600,000 votes are for Donald Trump but with no down ballot choices. These are either inserted “bullet ballots” for the Presidential race or manipulated data fields. They are surgically added to totals in limited jurisdictions and within only the seven swing States. This historically unprecedented set of numbers found in the 2024 swing states is absent in every other state. In AZ, MI, NC and WI the effect of these drop-off votes reverses the voters' will and even more improbably always pushes the winning margin beyond the mandatory recount numbers. It is a result too perfect for belief. It is a bespoke and programmed outcome. In other states including PA and NV, removing these strange and bespoke added votes, it appears Donald Trump may have won the cast votes but within a margin which would force recounts. The inserted votes raise his totals, to avoid any scrutiny during mandatory recount results which would have slowed his claim on the Presidency. In GA and FL the same pattern exists with unclear impact on the results.
This attack is not technically difficult. It is modest in scale. It would require:
Modest and common computer programming skills.
Access to 10-100 tabulators or to the handful of facilities programming them in advance.
A credible database of voter IDs of non-voters around which to create false ballots.
Perhaps as few as 1, but more likely 3-5 human program managers.
Access to eBollBook Data during the election to determine who had not voted.
(Possibly) Human access to some tabulators during counting.
If I was asked to lead this hack, I would expect to have a core team of 6-10 people, and operating costs under $10M with a timeline of 3-12 months.
The tell: A historically absurd number of Trump-only bullet ballots or undervote ballots.
There are always a handful of voters who cast a vote in one race which they care about, and do not make other selections on the ballot. These are called bullet ballots. In Presidential Races since 1980, these bullet ballots rarely account for more than 1% of the total votes including in Mr. Trump’s winning 2016 election and losing 2020 election, and when they do it warrants further investigation. In 2024 in the 43 non-swing states, bullet ballots make up a nominal >1%. In the seven swing states the numbers are so high to be unbelievable, unprecedented and demanding of further investigation. Here is analysis from totals as of late Nov. 12th
Here are the unprecedented results of drop-offs in the two western swing states:
AZ - 123K+ 7.2%+ of Trump’s total vote. Enough to reverse the outcome.
NV - 43K+ 5.5%+ of Trump’s total vote. Enough to exceed recount threshold.
It is my belief these two states have illegally added votes.
For comparison, examine Trump’s 2024 results in three states which border AZ and NV. They have equally passionate Trump supporters, but have the normal levels of drop off or bullet ballots.
ID

I agree with others here about that. That's been mentioned way to many times here. I'm just saying we need to put the final nail in THAT coffin. (unless proven that is not true)

This has pretty much been proven to be total bullshit.

We absolutely MUST come to grip with the fact that Americans you live with are...
1. Just terrible people and want terrible things.
2. They are not smart enough to think things out to an educated conclusion.
3. Too damn lazy to be bothered to care..until it's to late.

There doesn't need to be a recount
There needs to be recognition of the above truths in regard to what has happened.

That the Harris campaign didn't set aside a portion of their HUGE war chest for automatic recounts

No doubt in my mind. I just want this all to be checked, and put to rest. Jut ONE TIME recount.

And none of presidential races in the swing states meet the requirements. You cannot just demand a recount - you either have to meet the legal requirements or convince a judge to order one.

Still think they need a recount fund

recounts after the fact to placate conspiracy theorists?

I mean…are we hearing ourselves here folks? lol

Trying to win

Because the outcome is unknown

You have no idea what I'm saying

Year 2028: raise money for an election
Put some of that money aside for possible recounts
That's the responsible thing to do

Don't make it a plan to ask for more money if a recount is needed

It’s also in a different campaign bucket.

I trust their strategy is logical, this seems nothing more than a solution in search of a problem.

Be responsible with the money given and don't treat donors like bottomless cash bags

"If only they would have spent money on "insert name here", we could have won"

If she asked for a recount somewhere I might contribute....but if not what's the point now?

Yes, she raised a billion which outpaced Chump but far less than the PACs and dark money.

It’s well past time to move on from these nonsense conspiracy theories.

The election is OVER folks. Find a healthier use of your time than banging your head into a brick wall that is never going to fucking move. It’s OVER. Election denialism is NOT any more attractive, legal or even SANE on the left than it is on the right.

the published vote data and write a report describing clear anomalies between swing state and non-swing state vote totals, she could petition a court in the swing state with the most glaring discrepancies for a recount.

Obviously the Trump campaign would oppose a recount. The evidence would have to be very convincing unlike the Trump BS in 2020. Would we have a judge courageous enough to order a recount is hard to predict. It's not impossible. Picking the right state in which to challenge the vote would be extremely important. If the recount was to uncover irregularities, especially sufficient to alter the final out come, the door would be opened to make challenges in all of the swing states.

So in summary, there are avenues to challenge to election. If there is to be a challenge, it must happen very soon.

…if you don’t trust the courts and so on, where do you think any of this can go?

Kamala Harris conceded. I was hoping she’d wait longer (like days, or a week) , but she — a highly regarded prosecutor and state AG — was persuaded in her own mind that the numbers and statistics were against her. In particular, the Electoral College. She’s not the first to lose because of the EC despite having more votes — we do not have a direct democratic system, and that’s a fact.

People like us will always wonder — but I do trust Kamala’s judgement.

And as people keep reminding the voters who had immediate buyer’s remorse: there are no do-overs.

That's why i had trouble even starting this thread. Because she is smart and knows whats going on. Then i look and see, (hear) what these crazy bastards want to do to our country. That gets me thinking NOW or NEVER to find out FOR SURE if they cheated. I can and do accept her decision 100%. Just is one of the hardest (biggest) pills i've ever had to swallow i guess.

There is enough evidence looking at the opponent. I also believe it should be happening after every election automatically. For the huge amount of money that is spent on elections here, some of that that should be apportioned for investigations and by investigation I mean investigations of the Software and automatic recounts.

By the way, I’m not crazy or insane. I don’t blindly trust anything or anyone. I’m someone who recognizes fascism. I stated my worries a few times on this website and I was ridiculed, but everything that I predicted was most likely going to happen sadly has happened now. Imo democracy here died on election night. We are just seeing the death throws of it now.

Whereas the average "bullet" ballots were about .5 of 1%, in NV and AZ, it was like 5% to 7% in total "bullet" ballots.

I don't think a recount will help but it's worth a shot.

I wouldn't worry about upsetting others. I'm not. They can try to convince me all they want, questioning the election results from trump is different than those who believed the liar was telling the truth. He tells untruths on a loop. Joe does
not. Neither is POTUS crooked, hell-bent on staying out of trouble, nor is he a convicted felon. Apples v oranges. One among us here feels that claiming election fraud will dissuade voters. Well, apparent not! There's something to be said for the power of not rolling over and playing dead. Just my take though, and no one is changing my mind.