Once democracy slips away, it’s hard to get back. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, ACA will be impossible to retrieve.

To make the damage is so severe it can never be repaired or reinstated.

So when the victims report crimes every one is confused.
And victims are afraid to come forward because they are accused of lying.

We can see with the GOP it is an effective strategy.
No one is allowed to ask reasonable questions about the election and
are accused of being "conspiracy theorists."

This is also an old government trick to silence legitimate questions.

We should accuse them of it every time they talk crap about Dems. Automatically accuse them of everything they say. It will usually be true too.

They are telling us about their own wrong doing and crimes.

In a healthy adult society, people tend to put pieces of the puzzle
together and understand they are looking at criminals and liars
who are not respected or tolerated.

But in current day US, Americans admire the liars, criminals, rapists, etc.

Pretty weak.

We literally cant say they stole it now after beating the tar out of them over their claims the past four years.

And even if it’s true, it’ll just look like the sour grapes we’ve accused them of having.

They’re great at this shit. I hate them but they’re great at it.

We can continue to show them they were lying 4 years ago while also calling them out and investigating any crimes they may be committing now.

Yes. We can.

If we have evidence. So far we have none.

While spreading your BS disinformation here on DU, audits are happening all over the country right now. And so far, not a single irregularity from those conducting the audits has been noted.

Time is running out.

Trump proved that in 2020. Unless we have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, then the election will stand. We have no evidence that is reasonable.

We know what is at stake. Is it now too much trouble to defend democracy? Forget the media frenzy, just start examining the results. We don't need a photo op every five hours to examine results. We don't need press coverage and special committees and such. If there is nothing wrong, then there is nothing wrong. Correct?

Personally, I like the idea of doing a hand count in the seven swing states. If there were issues with the machines or StarLink, that is where it will be obvious. (Disclosure: this was not my idea.) If no issues appear, then there was nothing wrong with the election. Unlike the rethugs, we won't start screaming the second we decide to demand a recount, but will maturely await the outcome to see if there were issues. If there were not, then there were not. There seems to be more and more circumstantial evidence appearing that indicates something was amiss. Which is why there needs to be a bit more scrutiny.

(Also, that orange gibbon did not try to steal the election. He tried to overthrow the existing government. The election had been over for months. Just my opinion.)

In GA it wouldnt be.

Many are convinced President Biden was wrong and Vice President Harris was wrong. How do they know? They just know. Occam's Razor? They don't buy it.

People are having a hard time moving past denial to deal with grief.

It's time to move past the election and focus on resisting the coming terrors.

It's like requiring a DA or the police to provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt before even starting an investigation!

That's not how this works. There's enough evidence to warrant an investigation, i.e. a recount, from what I've seen.

the checkers?

Are following post election procedures that include verifying the accuracy of the results. So far nothing has been produced to warrant a further investigation.

What is the specific reasonable suspicion?

This should not be flipped to having a reason to be suspicious but an specific and articulable suspicion.

did not win all the swing states and the house and the senate(I was giving him the senate ) It's just too convenient

Come on....

And that was the state where the codes on the counting machines hadn't changed in 14 years.

But I sure don't want to be guilty of spreading conspiracy theories...

If there are issues with the tabulators then the audit will flag them. That’s the nice thing about paper ballots - it’s easy to verify accuracy.

https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2024/11/pennsylvania-election-audit-certification-recount-explainer/

That would look suspicious. The problem is, it wasn't isolated. Deep blue states swung right, by double digits in some states. Nearly every county in the country shifted right. They would have had to have cheated literally everywhere. And the possibility of that happening everywhere is basically zero.

You don't need my permission.

just a few locations that had an unusual amount of bullet ballots. Why not check it out?

Upon close scrutiny.

I went to the sites of the various BOEs and did some simple math. Turns out his numbers were achieved by taking the number of Trump votes and comparing it the number of votes in the GOP Senate race, which was less. This, however, ignores the issue of split ballot voting. When you do the calculations properly, which is to compare the votes of all presidential candidates and subtracting the number of all votes in the Senate race, you discover that the number of ballots just for the presidential race are 1-2% of total ballots rather than 6-7%. His cherry picking on data was picked up quickly and it was mentioned numerous times on DU.

Here’s a link to some numbers:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19738572

Talk about an argument lacking logic.

The first graph is hard to believe. Why in the hell would Democratic fix the election for trump? Ridiculous.

The argument that the election was fixed depends on a conspiracy in which Democrats fixed the election for Trump. That is why it lacks logic.

I thought it was clear, but evidently not.

...that the election was fixed DOES NOT depend on a conspiracy in which Democrats fixed the election for Trump.

and Democratic election officials.

....and, so far, we have not done any recounts to provide that information for anyone who is.

like Sidney Powell.

We've proven in 2020 that the U.S. is willng to do that.

have the authority to call for an investigation and knowing that there is no way it will change the outcome of the election, they are not doing so. They have no obligation to bend to every person on the internet who can't deal with the election loss. It's over. Deal with it.

There is also the fact that the exit polls and results are consistent. There is nothing suggesting any malfeasance except denialists who can't face reality.

Better get to it quickly.

They're saying the tabulators may have been hacked at the county level.
That would not require the involvement of governors.

Man, I hate straw man arguments.
So dishonest.

I just called Walz's office urging him to tell Kamala to request a recount.
(I don't have Kamala's number).

Now that we have an allegation what supports it?

requires that the Blue States were in on it. That means Democratic election officials. Voting machines are not connected to the internet. How could they be hacked?

It's not a strawman argument. It's pointing to the utter illogic of claiming the election was stolen in every single swing state in America, including blue states. It requires a conspiracy that reaches to 90% of the counties in America, because that is how many that Trump gained ground in. The argument makes no sense, and the fact that two weeks after the election people are still in denial is just sad.

Walz and Harris are never going to ask for a recount because they know there is no basis to it. The whole country would laugh at them if they did, and there are no signs they want to. The only people who want to are those who can't face reality.

They only certify the vote. They didn't count them. So an audit wouldn't be a problem.

that elections systems had been breached AFTER the 2020 election, putting 2024 elections at risk.

Pennsylvania recount is a million dollars. But the state will cover that. The other 49 states will not cover costs but if someone paid, they might agree to recount.

agree

How are people so easily led into this? As absolutely-fucking-predicted, the pivot has been made and anger about the election will be wheeled on Harris and other Democratic leaders. Already his words and anti-Democratic rhetoric is being splattered all over DU.

How. Is. It. So. Easy?

When people complain about voters, "Oh, they're taken in by so much misinformation and disinformation cuz they're so dumb!" I want people to look real close at how grifters who make claims - without providing any evidence whatsoever - can get people to fall into these holes this easily.

And then maybe take a moment to think that it isn't always "other people" who fall for nonsense when it's nonsense they want to believe.

Read through it. Do you think saying things like Harris will have the "rot of shame" on her if she doesn't buy into this stuff is acceptable rhetoric? They people will abandon and lose trust in Harris if she doesn't go along with Spoonamore?

He said this, addressing Harris:

...yes, even for rightwingers.

...and it is what you want to discuss, would you mind posting the text of his post?

I can not access the post on his substack for some reason.

Much less VP Harris.

But plenty of others in the thread seem to have access to the post (and enjoy it if the recs are anything to go by). You can always ask the willing.

Thank you anyway.

I'll disregard your references to his statements.

But not even making the attempt to find easily accessed information available within this thread from many different posters betrays an unwillingness at good faith efforts.

So what's the game then, if not good faith?

I can not access the original source.

I wouldn't want to hold you to references on statements that you are not willing to provide originally sourced material on, so I will just disregard your refernces.

So now you don't have to disregard the attacks on Harris or pretend they weren't seen.

....since I can't verify the source (and I'm not sure of copyright implications), but a few things did stand out to me:

a bit of verification.
As the saying goes... "Trust but verify" .

I've seen it all this week.

and so you own it. You can't yell "election-denier" to the other side and then complain when the rules don't favor your position all of a sudden. This is why free speech is never one-sided...or shouldn't be. 🥳

actionable evidence? If so, they should.

We could contrast that to the 60 lawsuits the Orange Prolapse filed after 2020 that were all thrown out of court.

Which I'm sure would be exercised if there was actionable evidence which there isn't.

Things they blame the democrats do but, it's always false and exaggerated. Then they do what they were hollering about because in their heads it makes it alright. So the big lie was so ludicrous it now causes a chilling effect to talk about cheating. They didn't spend all that time and money for nothing. The lies aren't to make people believe them as truth, but to obscure the truth so it won't be believed.

(I don't have a substack acct or the app)

Can anyone post the text please?

The results are consistent with the exit polls. I can provide a citation if anyone wants.

The results in all three of those states are quite close. It would take expert analysis to tell. I'm not seeing that it is conclusive enough to be 100% confident that there aren't discrepancies.

They have no shame, and even less integrity.

If I knew what they were afraid of I would probably be afraid too. I’m sorry that we haven’t seen anything of VP Harris since November 6th. I’m assuming she will be able to speak after this deadline has passed. I don’t see a Dem being elected as President anytime soon. People fought for her, paid money every month, worked in local Dem offices and worked at polls despite the danger to make this happen. The very least we could have is an explanation of how the vote was protected and safely counted. Many of us watched as the President pulled out of the campaign even though he had stated to us multiple times that he was all in. It’s just not a good feeling that it happened on our watch.

I guess my hope is that people are just not reading things.

I don’t believe that we know if Kamala has had time to thoroughly digest these theories. The letter was dated yesterday. Maybe she wants to see if the allegations have legs before she requests the recounts. I think she’ll weigh it carefully before making a decision.

"anti-Harris" attack is a perspective term, not a proven fact. I don't see it that way. He's pointing out the urgency of getting something done he thinks there's evidence to do.

Harris is still asking for money. So it could very well be that she is planning to ask for recounts in some or all of the battleground states. Why not? What does that hurt? There was too much blabbering from Trump and the GOP to let this go without checking on it.

Personally, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but as a registered Democrat who spend a lot of time canvassing for votes in Southeast Wisconsin and who gave over a thousand dollars to her campaign, I can certainly feel justified in asking that she do this.

I'm glad she's ignoring this grifter. We'd look like fools and it would undercut our criticism of the Stop the Steal crap.