But I guess the Dems "don't want to be like the right"?

and after telling the public the elections were secure and should be trusted.

But sometimes you have to go after the truth or you have no facts to back things up.

wrote Kamala about this -- and about the risk that breach posed for the 2024 election.

https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324-1.pdf

Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2024, 05:01 PM - Edit history (1)

For years Trump went on and on about rigged elections. Democrats obediently rose to the bait, and spent years and years saying that there are no problems with elections, zip, zero. We are against Republicans, right? So we must say the opposite of whatever they say, yes? While we were doing that, Republicans were busy purging voter rolls.

MAGA owns the issue now, and they can cheat as much as they like and we are in a very weak position.

Notice how the Republican success has much more to do with which issues they select to talk about and how they frame those issues than it does with the quality of their arguments.

So. Where did all the fight go?

Since that has worked so well in the past…

It was the smallest popular vote victory since Bush vs. Gore, and Trump fell below the 50% mark, meaning that technically more people voted against him than for him. Even if you choose not to question the results despite the stakes, people really shouldn't be legitimizing the fascists' "mandate" argument by claiming this was some kind of historic bloodbath. It wasn't.

by filing repeated lawsuits when there were no issues.

All I've heard is "it doesn't seem right".

to figure out how to hack those voting systems -- which is used in multiple other states. Why are we assuming they didn't?

Why doesn't every state audit its results? My state does.

in 2000, or 2004? I mean those were provable, between Ohio and Florida, but every Presidential election since at least 2000 has had questionable results. People in some states cared enough to make their elections more secure, the counting more accurate, and access to casting a ballot easier. The other states do the opposite. Elections by their nature are always vulnerable to the steal. No conspiracy required

What was sketchy about 2008? The only surprise that I see was Indiana. Odd that they shifted so far back to the right in 2012.

in multiple states? Why was Karl Rove all up in a dither on Fox news when Ohio was called? Indiana, I know nothing about. Perhaps it wasn't horrific enough to make the news? Nobody cares anyway....obviously. Afraid of being called a name.

... your only source of convincing proof would be mainstream media outlets that have already proven themselves to be in the tank for Trump, and are therefore, unreliable in the extreme.
The bullet ballots, documented instances of ballot mishandling by Republican-appointed election officials, and the long and sordid history of Republican dirty tricks, should give anyone grave doubts that there wasn't some foul play in critical swing states to sway that despicable abomination called the Electoral College.
Republicans have proven time and time again that they are congenitally incapable of honesty or decency in any endeavor; Christ, they brag about it!
So, yeah, I share Mr. Pavlovitz's extreme disappointment. Remember, every accusation is a confession when it come to anything that involves Trump. I wouldn't trust him, his minions, or any of his idiot supporters any further than I could throw my truck.

are non-issues…the vote counts prove that whole is issue is actually a non- issue.

I think the Repubs masterfully co-opted this issue earlier so that when we have legitimate questions, it looks like sour grapes. Frankly, I'm okay with anyone who wants a recount, regardless which side of the aisle. The difference is that we won't go down that dark path they did on 1/6. Yeah, I'm also disappointed that the "when we fight, we win" idea seems to have its limits.

They are only free if the election in that state was hyper close, and none were. I think the closest state that Trump won was Wisconsin, and that was by 0.9%, or about 29,000 votes. I believe it costs over a million for each state's recount.

I believe the Democrats are too afraid to even go in and ask for a recount because they are afraid of looking exactly how the Republicans looked back in 2020. Or they know that the election was legitimate one of the two.

Oh yeah, we could totally do that? I am just wondering what the purpose is since Harris doesn't seem to think she was robbed.

If you think everything is ok, and the hand recount proves that, then no harm done.
If the hand recount actually does find issues, I'm sure you would think, "I'm glad we did a hand recount." Not trying to put words in your mouth, but if issues show Pendejo45/Musk ticket stole the election, wouldn't you want that corrected?

Why am I continually getting text messages from Harris/Walz campaign about funding some election fight, when I'm not seeing any contesting of the election.

perform audits. We have all paper ballots and they take a sample of them and recount them by hand. If the result didn't match the machine tabulation, then all the ballots would be recounted.

.... what you describe is pretty routine. PA does a security audit before certifying the results.

Why did the democrats roll over so quickly and easily????

The closest state was Wisconsin, and Trump won it by 0.9%. Not even close enough for an automatic recount.

so obvious to a bunch of conspiracy nutcases on the internet. Or maybe they were in on it?



This is a response to John Pavlovitz and not necessarily the original poster.

I'm pretty sure lawyers like Marc Elias and many others who worked for the Harris campaign are smart enough to follow-up on any realistic evidence of "cheating". And if you don't think the Democrats have done due diligence with respect to these crazy ideas, then you're nuts. Of course, they looked into these things. The fact that you haven't seen or heard any of them demanding recounts and the like is because THERE IS ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT.

It's amazing that people here continue to make some of the same arguments that MAGA used in 2020 to say the election was stolen. Back then, I believe most of us in the reality based community laughed in their faces at how they were pathetic crybabies that couldn't accept the truth. But for some reason, when the Democrats lost the election, all of a sudden all those ridiculous arguments now MUST be investigated thoroughly and that will prove Trump stole the election. If you all could just realize how crazy you all sound....

to avoid being called crazy. PATHETIC.

Why did Don Jr state a few days before the election that he would probably be moving after the election to a country with no extradition treaty with the U.S.?

.... while denying it.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I do not believe that aliens do not run our government.

... to un-double-negate it. Do you believe aliens run our government or not?

The truth is out there...

Okay I'll stop... lol

But I'm not a conspiracy theorist either.

It's a weird thing that people do as if merely stating a thing makes it true.

But sometimes it actually is true

Pretty sure it was held up

... conducts "election security audits".

Counties are responsible for conducting the audits before the county certifies the results and sends them to the state. A few days ago, around five counties were still outstanding. Those that have submitted the results would have completed their audit.

The delays are mainly due to litigation and the expansion of mail in and provisional ballots. These factors actually improve participation and the integrity of the election.

Article: "Pennsylvania election certification not complete at deadline, but close"
Link: https://www.wesa.fm/politics-government/2024-11-27/pennsylvania-election-certification

I assumed the senate automatic recount went through, but I guess not...

The recount was automatic, since it was under .5%. However, under PA law, the person who unofficially lost can waive the recount. Casey chose not to, so the recount started. Before the recount finished however, Casey conceded.

I'm guessing that since he had the power to waive the recount before it started, once he conceded the recount was canceled.

And McCormicks lead would be extended. I'm just basing this on the fact it appears they counted a lot of undated ballots (which would likely be challenged and thrown out in a recount). And I assume undated ballots would favor Casey (although I don't have a lot to support that assumption with)

... to call bullshit.

...in the last election.

It's in his DNA. Even if he could win fair and square, he would not do so. He prefers to cheat.

He bought the election almost entirely. Billions in targeted ads and paid canvassing, keeping media from endorsing candidates, election suppression in swing states, Bibis electioneering (stopping a ceasefire deal, stopping an immigration deal, etc) -stuff that would have been completely illegal decades ago is completely legal now: and he did it all im broad daylight. The election was close enough for this stuff to make a huge difference for him.

If we want to win, we need to run on a loud, clear economic populist message that galvanizes support among all groups and prevents any semblance of closeness. So far Dems simply don't seem too interested in that.

verified voting will tell you where your audit is
https://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#mode/navigate/map/auditLaw/mapType/audit/year/2024

Do I have any proof? No, but I'm not in a position that I would have proof. There are people who are in that position, and need to pursue this so that we are all satisfied.

My reason for feeling this way? Just my gut, and I will tell you - in 65 years, there haven't been very many times that my gut was wrong.

There are things about this election that just don't seem to add up.

Look at the way he was acting, like a person with no home training, he knew the fix was in.

I don't know anybody who voted for Trump! Am I right?

apparently, elected Democrats are unable to even put up a pretense of fighting for our nation.

Not all....but more than I thought.

BUT, they are VERY quick to criticize anything that anyone on our side does!

100%

Not trying to stir up anything, but just looking for reasons. Polls really weren't far off.

I believe it because Elon Musk was very smug before the election, because Trump wasn’t really trying hard to campaign in the last few weeks, there were so many Republicans who did not want to vote for Trump, Democrats in several states won Senate races where Trump won, and they cheat ALL THE TIME.