But we have not faced the reality of how sick our society has become.
And how much election interference and outright rigging of the election there was by our enemies.

Total agreement.

Last edited Tue Dec 3, 2024, 11:07 AM - Edit history (1)

And the relentless Russian propaganda has turned American brains to mush.

I think you are quite naive and cannot face reality.

Having four numbers after your name and typing in all caps doesn't help either.

Republicans do that as well.

But the most important thing is that the Democratic Leadership needs to delivery that message.

The Dem Party doesn't have any media. We can't rely on the MSM because they are the media for the wealthy.

So let's make sure we articulate the problems and the solutions and then... Freaking Do It.

It's the Dem Party Leadership (or lack thereof) that lost this election.

70% of the media is owned and controlled by the 'trump political party". When we try to obtain more media the Conservative Party is in power and makes it impossible to obtain and run media news. This trump party has broken newspapers, news channels and radio through out America. The trump maggot oligarchy own the news . Democracy cannot survive in the dark without the honest input of news.

If society has devolved to a point where good ideas can't be sold, it would seem changing the product would in order.
If we're still selling the old product in an environment where there are insufficient buyers, there is, by definition, a messaging problem.

That's not a messaging problem. That's *not a message we should think about making to appease these types. The problem is that half of society. Perhaps they need to learn the hard way, but they will learn. This is not a healthy environment for anyone.

That's ok. There's no scripture to be followed here.
I'm still not buying that the "nose-holders" that voted for a felon who says he'll lower prices were motivated by hate.
I don't don't think all of that 49.8% that voted for are included, and a more aggressive tax relief (with raises to the upper & investor classes) would have convinced some of them to not hold their nose, and just vote for Ms. Harris.
If you can't provide empirical data to support that half of all voters were motivated by hate, I will remain unconvinced.

should suffice as evidence of "hate", although I used the word cruelty.

You're not going to convince me without hard data. Perusing social media is not hard data

We should just drop this.

equal human beings who deserve to be treated in medical emergencies, Black lives mattering and the other issues Trump ran on are economic and not cruel.

I don't need hard data. It was there for everyone to see. Everyone who wanted to see it, anyway. Those who ignore it or shrug it off don't get a pass. Sorry.

I think that it is about 25% who are "cheering on the cruelty" although there are probably some of these that are not happy with the boorish behavior. Very many reich-wing religious people relish violence against the ones they hate, but do not like cursing or sexual innuendo at all.

I think that there is another 5% or so who are fine with the cruelty, as long as it means that they are in charge. Trump's approval rating in the Republican party has generally been about 80%. It dropped after the unsuccessful coup attempt (not because of the coup attempt, but because it was unsuccessful, in my opinion). But within a few months his approval rating was back around 80%. I think that this shows how many Republicans are authoritarian followers vs. wannabe authoritarian leaders.

I think that about 33% can't be bothered to care one way or another as long as they get their hamberders and sportsball.

And I think that about 33% detest the cruelty.

I like that, but unfortunately that is exactly what the people on the right say as well.

Arriving at a closely enough shared reality that can be debated, argued around and improved is no longer feasible. Our media environment and the way humans interact online has not helped .

(Leaving out the actual arguments on the two sides. Calling climate science a religion while saying policies should be built around actual religion-these are not logically equivalent takes.

But how can ..I mean..it is ..It feels so futile to try to ..I mean on the one hand you have mainstream science and on the other..I don’t know. I am tired.

When I see comments on sites like yahoo, the one thing that does stand out is it’s two or maybe more parallel realities with so little shared. I guess in a way Musk’s stupid multiverse is here in a metaphoric sense.)

... Have to spend 33% less on food is all kinds of fucked up.

https://images.app.goo.gl/RhbaNaUGXvi3uUKS7

I didn't notice till after election otherwise I would've been screaming to all I know to change the message.

Benedict Donald can't fix this in less than a year, that's when we pounce with all we got.

but I found someone had X'd the same graph -

Maybe we need to get louder and more direct, but honestly, Biden is the first President to begin turning around Reaganomics, which is the right direction.

It's not fair but voters absolutely are going to say, "then why didn't you do this the last four years?"

The Democrats just had a tough environment to win in...simple as that.

... he's not going to solve any problems

Expanding who receives food stamps and expanding the amount received for the lowest income folks

Food stamps create a higher gdp, for every dollar in fs $1.79 in GDP is created

"Then why didn't you do it?"

Even though Harris wasn't Biden, she was part of the administration.

Said, “ call your reps, let’s do this now!”

Our message was obviously not enough, or we would be seeing Madam President in January. My personal opinion is we do not address the Red State Mentality. That is the red states a just used to being poor and just believe what their repressors tell them about democrats. I live in a red state and the main statements on the campaign trail are democrats are liberal users who want to tax and spend, keep “illegals” here by paying them for nothing, and transgender people are going to rape children in the bathrooms. I think it’s time to really get a red state outreach going to show them that being poor, having terrible education for your children, and shitty healthcare is not needed to be commonplace.

Black and Hispanic men especially.

Black men supported Hillary by a margin of +69 points.

Black men supported Harris by a margin of +56 points.

That's a swing of thirteen points since 2016.

Are we suggesting Black men are racist against Black women? After all, they supported Hillary by a large number. So, it can't be a sex issue (in fact, Hillary did +9 points better than Biden among Black men.

Hispanic men supported Hillary by a margin of +31 points.

Harris actually lost Hispanic men by a margin of ten-points.

In 2020, Biden was +23 with Hispanic men. So, like with Black men, he did worse than Hillary.

White men?

In 2016, they supported Trump by a margin of +31 vs Hillary.

In 2024, they supported Trump by a margin of +22 vs Harris.

That means Harris did nine-points better than Hillary vs Trump.

She did one-point better vs Trump than Biden did (Trump was +23 vs Biden in 2020).

Harris lost because she lost ground among Black and Hispanic voters.

She did worse than Hillary among Hispanic women too.

Hillary was +44 with Hispanic women in 2016.

Harris was only +19.

That's a huge difference.

Even Black women supported Hillary by a wider margin than Harris, albeit the shift was marginal.

In 2016, she won Black women by a margin of +90.

Harris won Black women by a margin of +85.

That five-point shift is still significant, tho.

In the end, white people shifted more toward Harris. People of color shifted more away from Harris.

I'm not sure it's smart to call Black men sexist (especially when they voted more for Hillary in 2016 than Biden) or Hispanic women racist. That is not going to resonate with these groups and it certainly won't win 'em back.

Data:

2016: https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls

2020: https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

2024: https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

Was it because of "the price of eggs" (and the price of almost everything)?

Was it because those among them who voted for the convicted felon instead of for a WOC did it because they wanted to show their "anger" to the Democratic ticket in place since 2021? Or was it because they had a child credit check for a year and then no more checks?

Could well be. (In part.)

Well, if that's the case, good luck with the convicted felon's idiotic tariffs... (maybe they WILL regret their vote?)

It hurts the outrage and the story we are telling ourselves.

It actually upsets me that she wasted time in Texas

As Obama said, “ we have to beat them in overwhelming numbers, so there is no doubt “

the best explanation I've read to date for what went down. Even though it's all over now, I and many others, still feel like shit. Especially knowing that the con man gets another chance when he should clearly be in jail. What a fucking mess.

They cheated. Trump spent tons of money and time pursuing the "rigged" angle. They learned how to do it, buttressed it with packed courts and brainwashing/gaslighting with the help of the media. We've all been played.

Until that specific guininely economic populist and policies are implemented, that sickness driven largely by obscene wealth gaps, is only going to get worse.

I complete agree with you that there was nothing wrong with the general democratic message. Unfortunately right now it wasn't quite the cure to the ever worsening sickness... and soon not even my proposal will likely be enough.

Make absolutely no changes so we can keep on losing. Way to go!

It's really sad, but so true

Harris should have aggressively told the American people that Biden did a fantastic job with post-Covid inflation - that USA outperformed all major economies on so many metrics. She blamed inflation on price gouging alone. She could have used inflation as an ASSET. High? Yes. Lower than the EU, Japan, China? Yes - because of Bidenomics.
She should have pressed why does Trump get a mulligan for Covid unemployment but Biden doesn't get a mulligan for post-Covid inflation?
She should have fessed up that Dems took too long to work on the border, but Republicans aren't serious. She just delivered the second half of this message.

I guess for some, it's hard to come to terms with the idea that half of the country is on board with the cretin -but they are. They've shown us who they are. Believe them. I'm looking forward to us turning the page and strategizing ways to protect ourselves and our loved ones in an authoritarian kakistocracy (our new reality). What is resistance and fighting back *effectively* going to look like?

I am sure there was mass purging of voter rolls and other such crap the right wingers are so good at.

Our 1/3 is the only portion of the country that cares about honor, decency and democracy.

Their 1/3 knows what is coming and eagerly voted for it.

The 1/3 that didn't vote are willing to accept it.

The choice was W A Y too binary to see it any other way.

And, that is what I see out there w people.

There was nothing wrong with the "messaging." It is just that too many people stayed home or didn't bother to vote, and those who voted for the felon were not about to ever vote for a woman, much less a Black woman.

Are you suggesting that someone else should have been the candidate?

and yet he was the MOST establishment, and SO WHAT, why so many magic buzzwords demonizing Democrats? Who resurrected this "establishment" "elite" "corrupted" purity test business to run for president? The subject is taboo.

Why did and do so many believe a fake populist who doesn't know anything and his complete revision of history? This hasn't been studied except for Stephen Stoft's "Ripped Apart: How Democrats can fight polarization and win." Whole thing's available to read online Google Books. Nobody listens.

Cynicism, stupidity, negativity only helps Republicans. Think for yourselves.

Spot on.

A society of fear, ignorance, and stupidity – a post-truth America where facts are the enemy and the political process is hobbled by the firehose of rightwing disinformation and lies.

RW propaganda. AM radio, small town tv stations, and so on. Pushed and played to American divisions relentlessly and this is the result. They had a looooong game and now have all the levers of power. Hunker down. Our message could not match Elmo ‘s outright pay to politic, and he desire to have the results we see too. . Despicable.

THANK YOU!!!

You can say oh the country is nothing but facists, racists and misogynists but the fact that the democratic party lost ground in pretty much every demographic and the fact that registered democrats stayed home says something about the message failed to connect with voters.

Democrats have been on defense too long

People just did not want a woman as president. Most people blamed the administration for inflation which was BS, and the media would not go after Trump like they should've.

Your #3 (the media would not go after Trump like they should've.) would not have mattered except for my 3 - and especially #6.

I didn't fucking need the media to tell me what a horrible person Trump is.

Remember when he mocked the disabled reporter? THAT should have been IT.

He said lots of crazy shit in this campaign and it was reported. It wasn't harped on but JHFC it was out there for anyone with the sense and decency to bother to look. Who the fuck votes for someone for President of the U.S. without putting in a little effort to read news from different sources? #6, that's who. (4 and 5 speak for themselves. They KNEW, and they WANTED that.)

Our society is indeed sick.

Some of that is the firehose of propaganda coming from the right in online spaces and the Democrats have no answer for that. So you are right in that sense. And they had no good counter for that (despite being correct in the particulars, that inflation and crime are actually DOWN, not up, and that many fewer people are crossing the border illegally, in part because Mexico is helping out). So you cannot counter lies with the truth; it simply DOES NOT WORK. And that is what Democrats usually try to do. I don't know the answer for this.

The volume isn't turned up high enough.

It was too truthful.

Most American votes prefer lies.