I said it to my wife Election Night, especially after Iowa's vote came in. No way Ann's poll was off by that many points when rhe most she was off was by a few. She even called Trump's win In 2016.

I think they tried to steal 2020, too, but too many people voted.

Not looky, it has been admitted, twice, by Trump

to prevent it.

Why the reluctance to abolish the "Electoral College", it should have been one of the first acts of the Biden administration, the same with increasing the number of judges to avoid what we have all witness in horror and will continue to do so. When Biden had the chance, why didn't he increase the number of judges in the supreme court?

Democrats have to get some "cojones" and start fighting hard, they seem to allow republicans to do whatever they want and then the only thing they do is complain and react. There is a video from Bernie Sanders about it where he points out that we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, stop reacting and instead become proactive. republicans have a very slim majority, Democrats must act with force, they must push back and make it loud and clear, wake the MAGAts up by showing them how republican policies are and will affect them negatively. MAGAts think that because the voted for the convicted felon that they are safe, so Democrats, wake them up.

Knowing how much of a threat Trump was to American Democracy, when Democrats had the chance to break the filibuster and pack that damn supreme court, which would have eliminated the ridiculously unconstitutional immunity ruling, and kept Roe intact, we instead played old school status quo politics as usual. The GOP, given the same chance, would have put through a clean sweep of objectives.

Then, after basically eight years of whining, caterwauling, complaining, griping and insisting that elections were rigged, who in the world didn't get the hint that Trump and his cronies were going to rig the election in every possible way they could find, including bribery of election officials in swing states in red counties to increase their vote totals by messing with those machines they complained were programmed for the other guys.

Unfortunately, the attitude I see from many of the Democrats who did win elections is, "Oh well, I got what I wanted."

And "oh well," if that's the attitude you take, then "oh well, don't count on my vote."

We need to rid the country of this scourge forever. Get on board or get out.

so women, predominantly—crushed it in state special elections held in red states to protect those freedoms. Another data point.

Federal court decisions and laws will override state laws.

I remain doubting malaise

In Pennsylvania, when comparing 2020 to 2024, Felon-47 gained in all URBAN districts. Say what?? Yes, while he lost badly, districts that went 90-10 for Biden in '20 all seemed to slip back to 82-18 or 81-19 for Harris in '24. Add all those shaved votes up and voila! A swing states goes from Blue to Red.

At this point, there is no way to prove anything about the count. The margin of victory in PA was about 120,000 votes. Of course, you and I have the thought that, if nefarious forces in fact caused 60,000 votes to be flipped in the electronic tabulation, we would have a situation wherein a righteous tie went to be a fraudulent 120,000 margin for T. We will never know. There was no hand-counted audit of the electronically-tallied count, even on a sample precinct basis.

My only consoling thought is that more votes were cast in PA in the 2024 presidential contest than in 2020. Therefore, there is no evidence than ballots were made to disappear in 2024.

Who's not going to believe he would do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to stay out of prison & as an added feature, take charge of everything??

And how do you compete with 1/4 billion $$$$$?

Besides, why would VP Harris not call for a recount if she thought she won?

It's amazing, really. All their shouting and screeching about a stolen election in '20, actually served to quash protests on what was a really stolen election in '24. Add Musk's chicanery and it's a bad, bad scene.

I actually believe some insiders know that 2016 was stolen. But, you know, can't rock the boat.

... willing to pretend we lost. That ALWAYS works. It's VERY woke.

Maybe we should all change our user names to something like "well boiled frog."

I've been vocal about the 2016 election, as well.

An illegitimate president was responsible for 100's of thousands (if not 100's of millions) of deaths due to Covid.

And now an illegitimate president is destroying and pillaging our government in SO many ways.

She’s NOT an idiot, she’s NOT a shrinking violet and for fucks’ sake - SHE’S A FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL. She knows how to present evidence and win cases.


It wasn’t stolen. Time for people to stop soothing themselves with this nonsense and move out of the denial stages of grief to something more productive. This “Kamala the victim” narrative is useless and insulting.

It’s that she has foresight to know what such a challenge would do to the nation. I think the evidence is important, and it should be examined with a commitment to getting at the truth. But if Democrats lost, we need to accept it and try to understand what it really means for our nation moving forward. Is democracy over? Probably, but I suspect it’s been barely hanging on for a long, long time. Evidence of the oligarchy is everywhere and it seems we’re just now able to see it for what it is .

How could she have fought it? Don't blame her.

Republicans have been working hard for decades to disenfranchise African American voters, to make voting more difficult for the working poor and minority populations and young people. I don't understand how Democrats can be in such denial about this.

Harris is not the victim. We are.

He lost fairly big Electorally.

And I think he couldn’t fudge the numbers because he was so wildly unpopular. Four years and the press never stopped sanewashing him while trashing Biden as too old turned the tides just enough to make it mildly plausible.

There will be no free and fair future elections. Anyone that believes that we just "need to get through" the next four years and then we'll have a chance to reclaim democracy is fooling themselves.

In three short weeks, the techbros have seized control of the U.S. Treasury. It's laughable to believe they will relinquish power, ever, much less leave it to the chance of the filthy electorate, who they believe they should rule over due to their "superiority".

They will never, ever, allow the people to decide anything ever again.

Such as a margin to close.

Trump just filed lawsuits with no proof
Of anythrhing

I think places he did get recounts was either close or they did it to shut him up

I also think that Kamala didn’t want to be the “ we said elections are fair - but now we lost we don’t think this one was”
All this is just a thought no facts that I can either remember for sure.

Outside a hospital that won’t treat them

But god forbid we hand count our ballots in full public view because “you “ think that just talking about that causes a “scene “

He talks about how someone else shows something, but never links to it. Not exactly a convincing argument.

He won but conceded “for the good of the country.” Spoiler: he won and was cheated out of the presidency.

"thenumbersarewrong2024, as attached to the OP?

2. What future elections?

She is democrat.

so yes, President Harris should be in the White House.

Of voter suppression, of mail in ballots received after its too late to count, of national groups of repubs like, true the vote, who spend all their time getting people from democratic leaning areas kicked off the voter rolls so it’s puzzling to see nameless, faceless internet personas, who claim to support the people palast champions saying,”his junk is bs”

itching to vote but was denied at polls. That just doesn't happen.

I've been purged at least 4 times, and voted in another district where I moved. Plus, he seems to assume all the votes would go for Democrats. Fact is, very few -- if any -- purged voters turn up at polls to be told they can't vote. It's all BS.

and be a little more silent sometimes. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Where there's smoke, there's fire"? It's an old saying & only if you have the advantage of decades of experience at watching the antics of certain individuals in and around our society & government, could you understand it and know that it is a true statement. Thusly, I can only assume you are young and/or just the arguing type. I'm neither, and I have too many important issues on my mind than to spend another moment conversing with you on this subject. I bid you good day & best wishes.

First off, I can't believe you're 75.
Second, exactly what do you expect the Democratic Party &/or "our government" to "deliver" for/to you?
I get a distinct scent of smoke around your words here and before in this thread. Here they depict a tad of greed in them.
And before they depict your outright hatred of Greg Palast.

Silent type, this country has a 2-party system. It's all we've had from the very beginning. You're either in one or the other.

I digress, unless you really do want to continue to "shoot yourself in your foot", so to speak.

as the reason we lost. He’s full of it and, IMO, appeals to those who won’t or can’t accept the truth.

trump was the most beatable candidate in history, and we are supposed to blame the media, rigged votes, Palast type suppression junk, musk finagled voter systems, etc.

The heck with that. Get real or we’ll lose again.

We have a 2 party system, but beginning this summer, we can change the Democratic party in upcoming primaries, unless we blame all the wrong things.

And, I too “get a distinct scent of smoke around your words.”

And from his site:

I rarely make a big deal about my own credentials but, since the election, the Web has been flooded by amateur, arithmetic-defying speculation about computer hacking and other unsupported twaddle. Best to stick to hard, verifiable data. And that’s what I do.

For two decades, I was a forensic economist for government agencies including the US Justice Department; taught statistics at Indiana University; provided expert calculations of vote suppression for the ACLU, NAACP, and RainbowPUSH and won the Global Editors Award for my data journalism on vote suppression measurements for reports done for Al Jazeera, BBC, Rolling Stone and The Guardian. The numbers you get here are exactly what I’d present to a Federal court. In other words, kids, don’t do this at home…calculating the “un-count” requires expertise.

He presents claims and never links to source data.

Palast is an easy target. He does the immense public service of keeping this issue alive. But never mind him.

The Impact of Voter Suppression on Communities of Color

Over the past decade, scholars have studied myriad ways in which certain state voting rules make participation disproportionately difficult for Americans of color — including strict voter ID laws, lines faced on Election Day, and other facets of our election system. This analysis catalogs some of the most prominent research findings on the negative impact of voting restrictions on voters of color.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

Black People Are Getting Removed From Voter Rolls And More Purges Could Be On The Way

“Protecting Voter Registration: An Assessment of Voter Purge Policies in Ten States,” a new report from Dēmos, the public policy think tank with a strong commitment to racial justice, attempts to explain how this practice can “create unnecessary burdens on the right to vote.”

Arizona, California, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin were selected as the ten states used as the basis for this analysis because their policies were considered to be the most representative of the gamut of voter policies across the country. Also of note, many of their state legislatures are considering or have recently passed laws around voter purging.

During last year’s legislative session, 43 bills were introduced by state lawmakers that would “allow or require problematic voter purges, and in 2023, as of the writing of this report, states are considering at least 28 additional bills.”

https://www.essence.com/news/demos-study-voter-purges/

Block the Vote: How Politicians are Trying to Block Voters from the Ballot Box

Voting should be as easy and accessible as possible, and in many cases it is. But in recent years, more than 400 anti-voter bills have been introduced in 48 states. These bills erect unnecessary barriers for people to register to vote, vote by mail, or vote in person. The result is a severely compromised democracy that doesn’t reflect the will of the people. Our democracy works best when all eligible voters can participate and have their voices heard.

https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020

Disenfranchisement and Suppression of Black Voters in the United States

The disenfranchisement of Black Americans has long outlasted the end of the Civil War, with modern instances of voter suppression in the form of limitations on absentee and early voting, stricter voter ID requirements, restrictions on voter registration, and other systemic barriers that decrease the voting engagement of minority populations. Today, Black voter disenfranchisement primarily takes the form of voting restrictions for incarcerated individuals. Systemic barriers such as gerrymandering, voting regulations for imprisoned persons, voter ID laws, lack of access to polling locations, and other examples contribute to the disenfranchisement of racial and ethnic minorities in the United States. This disenfranchisement has serious implications on election outcomes, representative government policy, and racial tensions. Two potential avenues may alleviate this issue: organizations to target legislative policies that uphold disenfranchisement, and supportive policy (including ranked-choice voting and expanded voting rights for racial minorities).

https://ballardbrief.byu.edu/issue-briefs/disenfranchisement-and-suppression-of-black-voters-in-the-united-states

Voter Roll Purges Underway Ahead of the Election

As we are entering the final days of a momentous presidential election campaign, hopes of a free and fair election are waning. Two of the main devices for unfairly tilting the scales in favor of Republican candidates — namely racial gerrymandering and voter suppression— are being fully operationalized. As evidenced by DOJ’s legal challenge of Virginia’s recent voter roll purges, several key states are unhesitant about suppressing votes. In an election that is going to be decided by a relative “handful” of voters, such tactics must be immediately challenged.

https://www.socialworkblog.org/advocacy/2024/10/voter-roll-purges-underway-ahead-of-the-election/

The Silent War on Black Voters: A Deep Dive into Recent Voter Purges

Welcome to the silent war—a war waged not with guns and bombs but with laws and purges. This war targets Black voters, stripping them of their voice in the democratic process. It’s not just a political issue; it’s a human rights crisis, deeply rooted in the history of anti-Black politics.

Voter purges are like a snake in the grass. They’re hard to see until they strike. These systematic efforts to remove voters from registration lists often blur the line between legal and illegal actions. Legal purges update voter rolls, removing deceased or relocated individuals. Illegal purges often target specific demographics, like Black voters, under the guise of “cleaning up” the rolls. This is a modern manifestation of America’s long history of denying racial freedom.

The silent war on Black voters is real, and it’s happening now. But knowledge is power. We’ve got to arm ourselves with information and fight back. Democracy depends on it. It’s about the future of Black communities across America, communities that have shown astonishing strength and resilience throughout history.

https://www.africanelements.org/news/the-silent-war-on-black-voters-a-deep-dive-into-recent-voter-purges/

They didn't have the statistical anomalies I cited (or something comparable) backing up their claim.

All they had was Trump's Big Lie that the 2020 election was rigged.

These situations are not even remotely the same.

Trump repeatedly accuses Democrats of doing what he and the Republicans are doing. That has been very effective.

Keep sharing it!

Some of this information has been the topic of discussion on this forum.

And some of us were calling for paper ballot hand recounts, after the election. And some of us were told "we lost" and "get over it."

I'm not over it. If we can prove Musk and the grifter committed a crime(s), then what?

Greasing palms would be easy for him and his knowledge with computers now is well-known. How do we know what he spent 250 million, maybe he spent half a billion dollar. He was giving away 1 million a day.

Look what he got for it, he's now got a lot of information he didn't have before, like personal info on all of us, especially those who work for the government.

He won all the swing states, no I'm not buying, he needed to make sure dump won. What better way to spend money.

Were those 10 million extra votes in 2020 too much for their cheating to handle, and that is why Biden beat their scheme?

They had 4 years to put the fix in and they succeeded.

They 'won' by voter suppression. The packed stolen illegitimate Supreme Court decided on their own to remove voter suppression reviews on certain states. The Constitution does not say that the Supreme Court can MAKE LAW.

So red states purged 4+ million voters - mostly Dem voters. They targeted Blacks, Hispanics, and younger people.

A lawsuit would prove that these voters were purged.

And yet some people still insist that Kamala legitimately lost and that we should get over it.

I'll say it again, in my opinion Kamala Harris won the 2024 presidential election but it was stolen from her.

In my opinion, those statistical anomalies shouldn't just be brushed off.

This country simply chose not to enforce the fucking law, as it so often does.

The corrupt Supreme Court is also illegitimate.

If I run your data through my database/application - I will get the results that I want regardless of what you want.

2000 was the first of the massive election machine and vote counting attacks by Republicans.

…didn’t do it! Didn’t refund the money. First problem. The crap that went down in Ohio was beyond crazy! Second problem.

He's a conspiracy theorist. I do believe things were messed with, but I don't know Palast is the one to prove it.

I realize that's weak, but that's where my suspicion comes from, for what it's worth.

I wish you well, my friend, in these dark times.

And by whom? Thanks in advance, as I really would like to know.

He's never been used as any source material for anything I've seen. I put more credence in Seth Abramson, for example. His books on Trump (I have 3) are outstanding. And then there's Malcolm Nance, whose stuff is also fantastic.

Palast also plays the "reporter" game, wearing the hat to make people think he's a journalist. Real journalists don't put signs on their necks (or heads).

YOU have never seen his work ….

YOU think he plays “the reporter game” ….

YOU wouldn’t give credence to his claims….

It's pretty standard. He claims to get information from other sources that he named, but there's nothing indicating that those sources actually said the thing he did. For example he doesn't cite anything related to the Washington state audit that found a black voter is 400% more likely to have their mail in vote rejected. Ignoring that Washington is a Democratic state and ignoring that he doesn't say what the base comparison is to know if it's say 1 in 10 white voters compared to 4 in 10 black voters, or 1 in 1 million compared to 4 in 1 million, Palast never links to the audit.

A google search comes back to the Palast article posted on multiple sites, but not anything associated with Washington state. You want to believe what he's selling. That's the bias. Those of us asking for source evidence are asking for the basics needed to believe something.

Perfectionism is the enemy of progress.

Where have I 'herd' that before?

Ask Al Gore. Or Hillary Clinton.

a 100% guaranteed victory. It's not in his character.

There's no doubt in my mind Musk did something on his behalf to ensure that outcome. They've practically admitted as much on multiple occasions now.

He cheated in 2016 and 2020. He was facing jail time in 2024. Yeah, he cheated.

I wonder how many people who have issues with contemplating the theft of votes over the past half century live in those same states that make voting so difficult, and stealing elections a source of pride.

Louis DeJoy has some explaining to do.

I still firmly believe that 2016 was stolen from Hillary and I'm dead certain that the Steele Dossier was 100% on point.

With that as her backdrop, as well as 4 years of false claims by Trump about a stolen 2020 election, she could have doubled down and put it on the record that she, too, would challenge the results if she lost.

We'll never know.

That said, when Russia meddled in Romania's recent election, they redid the entire fucking thing. Back in 2016, even Facebook admitted to pushing Russian propaganda.

That was the time.

and more MSM attention than it's getting!

would think that Musk, tRump, Putin and all the republicons won fairly, without cheating manipulating lying or stealing. Nope, no dirty tricks from them.

Sure.

because they don’t buy into your silly Trump-style conspiracy theory? lol

Posted it on DU and had several members berate me for being alarmist. Just because they’re leaders doesn’t mean they have a firm grasp of everything that’s happening. In fact, there’s even a term for political myopia: “inside the beltway mindset.” Basically, they get so wrapped up in DC political culture that people outside that closed system are rubes who couldn’t possibly understand the complexities they deal with so they don’t really need to listen to us. Consider: believing Cheney’s lies about Iraq being the cause of 9-11, and all Dems who voted for that illegal war. I mean, FFS, I lived in Colorado and got all my news from DU and I knew there were no WMDs in Iraq, why the fuck didn’t Hillary or John Kerry know that? Because of the hubris that they were inside the beltway and knew better than us rubes.

From 2000, there are enough uncounted votes in Florida that sit uncounted in the Florida archives to change the outcome of that election. It's several hundred thousand uncounted Florida votes located in the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties in Florida to be more exact It was the Bush brothers all out assault on American democracy in Florida that started well before election day 2000 and culminated with the Rehnquist 5 rubberstamping the Bush brothers all out assault on American democracy that created the mess that our country is now in. I'm so familiar with this and continue to be outraged by it because 15 of my 24 years spent working on dem election campaigns were spent in Florida. tRump tried to run the same Bush brothers assault on democracy in 2020 but he failed.
I don't see any evidence from the OP that there are enough uncounted votes in enough states for there to be a comparison between 2000 and 2024 to the point to be able to say that the 2024 election was stolen like the 2000 election was stolen.

All Democratic politicians spent four years promoting the integrity of the election process after 2020. This simply put almost all Democrats in a position of not being able to question the results, officially or in the media.

How is this different from Trump claiming he won in 2020 due to "fraud."

That won’t show up in an exit poll…

which were not good before the election (43% in Gallop for example) and worse now. That's not to say that voter suppression doesn't play it's part-- whether it's enough to change outcomes when Trump won the national vote by 2M votes is questionable.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/24655/party-images.aspx

It’s the votes that counts.

But not understanding trends leads to losing due to lack of focus on what folks most care about.

I can't even watch the News stations or read the newspapers anymore given that they are all run by the wealthy..

given the variability in their methods and statistical nature. It's likely that modern polls are better than older ones, but with huge caveats due to people being polled not participating or lying. That doesn't mean they should be ignored or considered worthless. It is especially valuable not to dismiss polls if they disagree with how we would like to think things are.

Sorry, these Trump-style conspiracy theories are garbage.

Sorry, I am not a weak Democrat...

This is just silly.

that they let Republicans, out of power, take away votes in the very states where we were in charge?

Again, all of this is incredibly silly.

The fact remains that over 4 million Dem voters were purged by Republican operatives.

trump is an illegitimate president.

to embracing Trump-style conspiracy theories.