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TalenaGor

(1,215 posts)
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:19 AM Feb 2025

"You're not going to believe what I'm about to tell you...."

Fascinating cartoon from the creator of Exploding Kittens game - he lays out the 'Backfire effect' and how our brains deal with being challenged by facts that are in direct opposition to our world view....great read

(Cant post an excerpt because its all images)

read it here - https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"You're not going to believe what I'm about to tell you...." (Original Post) TalenaGor Feb 2025 OP
Thank you. niyad Feb 2025 #1
very good but I had hoped it would have pointed out that conservative mindest is "fear" of the unknown Shellback Squid Feb 2025 #2
agreed, but at least it helps us to understand WTF is going on it their heads lol TalenaGor Feb 2025 #25
The psychology is interesting, but most of the examples 'debunked' were things I never believed to be true, and ... eppur_se_muova Feb 2025 #3
I was shocked to learn that the information I got about Napoleon Crunchy Frog Feb 2025 #7
Well played. nt eppur_se_muova Feb 2025 #17
Nice. Morbius Feb 2025 #4
I feel as though I have known forever soldierant Feb 2025 #5
Celebrations of Jesus's birth Crunchy Frog Feb 2025 #8
Didn't I say that, in different wording? soldierant Feb 2025 #20
There's probably a third reason jmowreader Feb 2025 #9
I assumed those bits were simple practical life advice... Think. Again. Feb 2025 #11
On that one... jmowreader Feb 2025 #14
I always believed it was a way of extending compassion to animals by recognizing they have families. soldierant Feb 2025 #22
Not really. Most milk products would have been fermented or Crunchy Frog Feb 2025 #15
I am an Agnostic (can't "know" what I can't "prove") who strongly agrees... Think. Again. Feb 2025 #10
It's interesting how many atheists and agnostics soldierant Feb 2025 #21
That's kind of you to say... Think. Again. Feb 2025 #23
I had read that it was the date of Saturnalia, a Roman holiday when slaves were temporarily free to worship ... eppur_se_muova Feb 2025 #18
Midwinter celebrations seemed to be practiced across most religions. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #24
I didn't find it to be particularly applicable to myself. Crunchy Frog Feb 2025 #6
Nicely said. In my own long-winded way, that's sort of what I was trying to say. eppur_se_muova Feb 2025 #19
Thanks for this malaise Feb 2025 #12
I wonder if he still worships Musk like he did here? Hong Kong Cavalier Feb 2025 #13
It looks like that was from 2014. Crunchy Frog Feb 2025 #16
And he got Elon Musk to donate $1 million towards the museum Polybius Feb 2025 #26

Shellback Squid

(10,061 posts)
2. very good but I had hoped it would have pointed out that conservative mindest is "fear" of the unknown
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:43 AM
Feb 2025

versus the mindset of a 'liberal" is curiosity, although it did brush upon it

eppur_se_muova

(41,733 posts)
3. The psychology is interesting, but most of the examples 'debunked' were things I never believed to be true, and ...
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 03:51 AM
Feb 2025

... for the most part, I have never even heard claimed. I guess my worldview is based strongly on what I have seen reasonably well proven, or witnessed for myself, and not just "stuff I heard". I tend not to swallow anything that includes phrases such as "everyone knows" or "I saw a TV program that said so". Then, I'm a scientist. When I read scientific publications, I look for omissions, logical gaps, and errors, and occasionally find them. I've only once been asked to comment on a grant proposal, and found the arguments therein to contain a very deep flaw, but one that could likely be corrected with a little more work.

I was a little nonplussed by the one about GW's dentures, because I had at one point actually seen what were supposed to be his dentures on display. And yes, I (thought I) saw a lot of wood. There was clearly a lot that wasn't wood, including springs which looked to be brass, and it was quite believable that some of the metal I was seeing was gold rather than brass -- after all, gold is exceptionally free from corrosion. The display explained that hippopotamus ivory was used for the actual teeth, which seemed perfectly logical, and the white parts sure looked like they could be ivory. The articles cited suggested horse and donkey teeth were used; it's not clear to me just which parts were made of which. So, what about all that "wood" ? From the sources cited, it appears that the 'palate' part of the dentures was discolored, and that might have been what I saw (I didn't take a picture) as wood, or it might have been that it was some kind of frame for holding the dentures when not in use, kind of like a case. I certainly thought it was too large to fit in anyone's mouth. Comparing my old memory with the articles cited was confusing, but not contradictory. And years before I ever saw those dentures, I had already read that they weren't really wood, or at least not all wood. So it wasn't any belief that was central to my thinking.

I'm not sure what would really contradict my central beliefs -- maybe if the Earth really were flat, or the Moon were really green cheese, or Donald Trump turned out not to be a vile, despicable travesty of an (ostensibly) human being, that might do it.

Crunchy Frog

(28,242 posts)
7. I was shocked to learn that the information I got about Napoleon
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:06 AM
Feb 2025

from the movie "Time Bandits" and the info about Thomas Crapper from an episode of "X Files" was wrong.

I don't think my worldview can recover.

Morbius

(972 posts)
4. Nice.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 04:20 AM
Feb 2025

I'm a big believer in listening. Listening is a lost art. Many people think the ability to talk is a sign of intelligence. I believe the willingness to listen is the real sign.

There's no point in having free speech if we won't listen to one another.

soldierant

(9,316 posts)
5. I feel as though I have known forever
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 04:30 AM
Feb 2025

that 12/25 was not Jesus's birthday, and that in fact no one has the foggiest idea of when it was. 12/25 was selected to be the day to honor is, for tw pretty good reasons, one practical, and one pased on good logic with flawed premises.

The practical one was that every civilization all over the northern hemisphere has had celebrations at that time of the year, and we might as well have one too.

The other one was based on the idea that the year began at the spring equinox. At the time, the Julian calendar was still in force, and though it wasn't quite eleven days off yet, it was off some, and the spring equinox was around March 25. That was considered to be the date upon which the world was created, so it was only reasonable to assume that that was the date upon which the Annunciation happened. And December 25 is exactly 9 months after March 25.

Personally, I am a Christian - one who believes that if a person claims to follow Jesus, they should be acting in accordance with his instructions about how to act, and I endeavor to do so. As such, I do not care in the slightest about what date he may have been born. But I love that story because it's such a charming example iof what humans can some up with by applying hard logic to soft premises. I chuckle every time I think of it.

Crunchy Frog

(28,242 posts)
8. Celebrations of Jesus's birth
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:10 AM
Feb 2025

were simply grafted onto preexisting pagan winter solstice celebrations.

jmowreader

(53,103 posts)
9. There's probably a third reason
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:27 AM
Feb 2025

All that stuff in the Bible about not using two things for one thing, like not making garments of two kinds of thread or not planting two crops in your field, really mean "don't practice two religions."

Early Christianity had a significant problem when it got into Northern Europe - all the people they forced into Christianity from there already had religions. Those religions already had start-of-winter and end-of-winter festivals. To get people to stop practicing non-Christian festivals, the Christian leadership simply made Jesus-related festivals with the same trappings.

 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
11. I assumed those bits were simple practical life advice...
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:44 AM
Feb 2025

...mixing meat with dairy could make you sick before refrigeration, etc.

jmowreader

(53,103 posts)
14. On that one...
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 06:36 AM
Feb 2025

I always believed "don't cook a kid in its mother's milk" was a way of keeping you from using two meals' food to make one meal.

soldierant

(9,316 posts)
22. I always believed it was a way of extending compassion to animals by recognizing they have families.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:08 PM
Feb 2025

Crunchy Frog

(28,242 posts)
15. Not really. Most milk products would have been fermented or
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 06:42 AM
Feb 2025

in the form of cheese. The meat would be more likely to go bad, but that would be the same with or without milk products.

Most of those rules were arbitrary.

 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
10. I am an Agnostic (can't "know" what I can't "prove") who strongly agrees...
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:40 AM
Feb 2025

...with the VALUES attributed to the Jesus character, but do not believe that those values are anything supernatural, just part of human nature (along with the shitty parts).

soldierant

(9,316 posts)
21. It's interesting how many atheists and agnostics
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:06 PM
Feb 2025

and among the kindest, sweetest people in the world. Of course, like Christianity, you also have some clunkers. Every belief group does. Actually every group does. As you say, human nature has multiple parts. And human nurture sometimes helps and sometimes doesn't. I try to take (or sometimes leave) people as I find them.

eppur_se_muova

(41,733 posts)
18. I had read that it was the date of Saturnalia, a Roman holiday when slaves were temporarily free to worship ...
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:17 PM
Feb 2025

... and many slaves, being Christian, chose that day for worship services.

According to Wikipedia, it's nowhere near that clear-cut, and will probably never be fully resolved. Given how much the calendar has been modified, it's probably not the day originally celebrated anyway.

Crunchy Frog

(28,242 posts)
6. I didn't find it to be particularly applicable to myself.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:03 AM
Feb 2025

I'm an empiricist by nature, so I don't feel threatened by new information that's supported by good evidence.

My core beliefs aren't about particular facts being true, but rather a set of principles, and not amenable to being challenged by facts.

eppur_se_muova

(41,733 posts)
19. Nicely said. In my own long-winded way, that's sort of what I was trying to say.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:22 PM
Feb 2025

I never had family or teachers or a larger community who really tried to indoctrinate me as I was growing up, so I always felt that anything I learned was open to correction if more information came up. Again, that's how you science, so it came naturally to me.

(When I was young, our family attended Southern Baptist churches and my parents originally voted Republican, like their parents. Neither lasted, for reasons I feel too obvious to enumerate. )

Hong Kong Cavalier

(4,607 posts)
13. I wonder if he still worships Musk like he did here?
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 06:06 AM
Feb 2025
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s2

I haven't read any recanting of his gratuitous fawning over the man, especially since Musk's true nature has finally come to light.

Crunchy Frog

(28,242 posts)
16. It looks like that was from 2014.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 07:10 AM
Feb 2025

Musk wasn't really showing his true colors yet and lots of people idolized him.

If he hasn't updated his opinions then I guess that would make him exhibit A of the points he's making in that comic.

Polybius

(21,809 posts)
26. And he got Elon Musk to donate $1 million towards the museum
Tue Feb 25, 2025, 01:24 AM
Feb 2025

From that link:

Update 2: ELON MUSK AGREED TO DONATE $1 MILLION!


I spoke to the man directly, and he agreed to two things:
1. He's going to build a Tesla Supercharger station in the parking lot of the museum.
2. He's donating $1 million dollars to the museum itself.

Elon Musk: from the deepest wells of my geeky little heart: thank you.
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