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bigtree

(90,869 posts)
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 11:34 AM Feb 3

Most of the same people dragging Dems today are the same people who thought attacking Dems in the last election was fine

...with 'why don't they do this?' or, 'why didn't they do that?

Or Joe Biden is old. Or, why doesn't the U.S. president end the Israeli assault in Gaza. On and on, from one whinge to the next about our own candidate.

What the fuck did people think was going to happen when party leaders and other used their elevated platforms to whine and moan about Joe Biden until he stepped aside?

What the fuck did they think was going to happen leaving the VP with just three months to campaign? And, even then, dragging on the VP with endless projections.

Now we're in a fight where the actual villain is in office and there's no campaign or election within reach, and we have people just leaning into Democrats, instead of attacking republicans, all the while telling us how ineffective Democrats' messaging has been.

They're complaining about messaging, as if publicly dragging Democrats is some sort of opposition to republicans. It's not, and it's actually exploited by people whose interest and entire mission is to divide Democrats among ourselves. It's been that way for decades now.

I pay a lot of attention, and I can confidently say that our Democratic leadership may not be doing that brilliant thing you thought of, but they are, essentially, their own political operation. They are not standing still. They have not been silent. They have been waging their opposition any way they can manage in the minority.

We didn't provide them with enough members to do anything but talk, but, nonetheless, there are people dragging Democrats for stepping out and informing their constituents of what republicans are doing, and urging US to get out and confront the republicans who are in complete control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.

Republicans control the legislative agenda, and they have enough votes to pass almost anything with their own membership. We're basically in a protest/defensive mode at this point; not just Americans, but the people we managed to advance into office.

There will be lawsuits filed, but that's the ONLY direct influence Democrats will have until we have a chance in the midterms to take back control of the legislature. The only power they have is the elevation of their offices and their voices.

When they write a letter demanding the president do something, or demanding he desist, that's their job, and speaking truth to power is the ONLY one we equipped them for in the last election.

THAT's the game right now. Not whether someone didn't say what's in someone else's head, but what they are actually saying. We need to confront our legislators we elected where they actually stand, not where we imagine they should be.

We forfeited any real power of demanding things from our national legislators, because we sent them there neutered and functionally ill-equipped, so, functionally ineffective.

But some people are thinking there's something they can whip out of the wreckage of the election Democratic voters squandered away, by dressing up the minority they engineered for us in Congress like they're actually the ones on power and authority and punching them until they bruise and bleed.

Again, you have to just use that imagination that pretends Democrats have some magic solution they're refusing to deploy, and think of all of the people out there who've never valued a robust and united Democratic party who think this is their moment to tear the party apart, as if they had the ability to put a robust and united opposition party back together again.

Long and short? I know Democrats are speaking out because, I bother to look, read, and listen to more than the teevee news and twitter. We need to amplify those efforts, because we can't organize a resistance with gaslighting and resentment toward our own people.

Our elected Democrats make their efforts, and we endeavor to build on those. Makes sense, unless we intend to nominate ourselves for the legislature. Makes little sense supposing they aren't doing anything because you don't see it on the news.

More folks need to take the time to find out what they're saying and doing and amplifying the advocacy coming from our elected officials. I've seen Raskin, Warren, Jeffries, and countless others, including the unfairly maligned Schumer, all of them out EVERY DAY since the inauguration with their advocacy.

Yes, you have to go look because, the teevee news won't cover them. With the platforms that people use to spread cynicism about out Democrats, they could be piggybacking on the advocacy of our Dems. It's there, they just have to look for themselves. It sucks, but that's the resistance game.

We are the ultimate engines of our democracy; not just the people we manage to elect.

This is legislating time, and we don't have the votes to control anything. What our Democrats in Congress need are our voices in opposition to REPUBLICANS and against what Trump and his maga henchmen are doing to the nation.

We're ALL in the resistance now, both the public and the Democrats we were able to elect. All of us are out of power right now, and the ONLY course that will right this sinking ship is to unite, bail, and hopefully in time, regain the helm.

-Ron

78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Most of the same people dragging Dems today are the same people who thought attacking Dems in the last election was fine (Original Post) bigtree Feb 3 OP
Unite; Don't Divide! MineralMan Feb 3 #1
Some of us are frustrated since inauguration NCDem47 Feb 3 #2
This was all on the November 5th ballot Quiet Em Feb 3 #5
Agree!! NCDem47 Feb 3 #7
too funny stillcool Feb 3 #35
"Some" of the people who don't see the urgency from D's are also deliberately staying away from MSNBC pnwmom Feb 3 #55
I agree with you, but it was even before the election...As I have said before, THEY KNEW republicans WOULD Escurumbele Feb 3 #63
There won't be *another* time DSandra Feb 3 #3
Always remember, God is still on the throne. BannonsLiver Feb 3 #6
Oh, I'm inspired, all right. dchill Feb 3 #15
You proved the OPs point mcar Feb 3 #28
Reminds me of a story BannonsLiver Feb 3 #34
Not trying to be snarky angrychair Feb 3 #38
You are very correct. When the GOP is in the minority, they cause enough problems to gum up the whole works. hadEnuf Feb 3 #60
You're making the OPs point happy feet Feb 3 #61
Those are speeches, not actions angrychair Feb 3 #67
If there was a God trump would be by Ivana on hole #1 of his Golf course. Escurumbele Feb 3 #64
Might wanna let Hakeem know. BannonsLiver Feb 3 #68
That's exactly right BannonsLiver Feb 3 #4
People have every right to say something about elected leaders who see nothing/hear nothing/do nothing dalton99a Feb 3 #8
call them out bigtree Feb 3 #9
That might be because, as a whole, they are doing nothing. Think. Again. Feb 3 #17
Really? mcar Feb 3 #29
Looks like our "whinging" is working! Think. Again. Feb 3 #32
How is it you know that? stillcool Feb 3 #36
I don't live under a rock? Think. Again. Feb 3 #37
Really? Do you have any Democrats stillcool Feb 3 #41
I don't understand why you're asking me that. Think. Again. Feb 3 #57
Isn't your thread an attack on Democrats? gab13by13 Feb 3 #10
ALL OF THIS johnnyfins Feb 3 #11
Short and sweet, and to the point. dchill Feb 3 #18
I agree Mountain Mule Feb 3 #47
Camilla? SocialDemocrat61 Feb 3 #48
LOL Mountain Mule Feb 3 #54
We need STRONG leadership NOW!, KEEP UP THE NOISE Think. Again. Feb 3 #12
If you didn't support and vote Democratic, you didn't give them the power to do anything. n/t forgotmylogin Feb 3 #13
Can't Disagree DAngelo136 Feb 3 #14
Most people? Do you have any proof? bronxiteforever Feb 3 #16
It's just his endless schtick of attacking fellow DUers. demmiblue Feb 3 #21
Is this irony? Nixie Feb 3 #56
No no proof of it, and I will continue to call out anyone who is not fighting this HARD and to give my input Meowmee Feb 3 #75
Well Said Aepps22 Feb 3 #19
Goodbye orangecrush Feb 3 #20
What your saying is their message isn't getting out Historic NY Feb 3 #22
This! mcar Feb 3 #23
How anti-democratic of you. Buzz cook Feb 3 #24
Read that and thought, there is always the lone gunman. Dan Feb 3 #25
I'm not a member of an organized political party - I'm a Democrat. Compliments of Will Rogers 1932 (?). flashman13 Feb 3 #26
Based on what data? Voltaire2 Feb 3 #27
Now, now. It doesn't work that way. Orrex Feb 3 #70
You want people to follow you? Then Lead!!! Yavin4 Feb 3 #30
Post removed Post removed Feb 3 #31
they are outing themselves all over the place stillcool Feb 3 #33
And the ones attacking those critics are the same cheeleaders who praised Garland. Orrex Feb 3 #39
same people working to fuck this up by attacking Democrats instead of republicans bigtree Feb 3 #43
Stop Cirsium Feb 3 #53
Please explain how Orrex, the anonymous nobody, is going to Fuck This Up Orrex Feb 3 #69
it's rather absurd to post on a prominent Democratic message board bigtree Feb 3 #73
Well if Chuck Boomer is going to be weak and Amy Klobuchar wants to "work with" Fascists it's called gor! LW1977 Feb 3 #40
I don't fit your theory at all, I suspect countless others also stand outside your model as well. Maru Kitteh Feb 3 #42
I know bigtree Feb 3 #44
You said I should act as an 'echo' to what leadership are saying. I told you Maru Kitteh Feb 3 #52
Then why are you attacking people? Cirsium Feb 3 #45
Well said. Scrivener7 Feb 3 #62
"this is legislating time." - how utterly clueless. Voltaire2 Feb 3 #65
This don't fight back has been going on since 2000 GoreWon2000 Feb 3 #46
Thank you for your sheer eloquence, bigtree. Too many to count are acting as our own worst enemy... Hekate Feb 3 #49
Thank you profusely. I understand of course the horror of our country dissolving... NNadir Feb 3 #50
Co-signed Hitorque Feb 3 #51
Jaimie Raskin is on fire at USAID. I hope it's contagious. nolabear Feb 3 #58
Thank-you happy feet Feb 3 #59
In other words, never criticize Democrats HereForTheParty Feb 3 #66
Which Democrats are standing idly by? Elessar Zappa Feb 3 #71
Stop voting for Trump nominees HereForTheParty Feb 3 #72
Exactly. choie Feb 3 #78
Thank you! betsuni Feb 3 #74
"the unfairly maligned Schumer" choie Feb 3 #76
I hear you, but it will never change. It's who Dems are. Blasphemer Feb 3 #77

NCDem47

(2,615 posts)
2. Some of us are frustrated since inauguration
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 11:43 AM
Feb 3

We're not seeing a sense of urgency from our leaders for any real opposition to absolutely terrifying actions by Trump admin.

Things are feeling like "asleep at the wheel." Don't know if the DNC electing a new leader and officers was holding something up, but existing Congressional leaders are comig off fragmented.

pnwmom

(109,717 posts)
55. "Some" of the people who don't see the urgency from D's are also deliberately staying away from MSNBC
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:09 PM
Feb 3

and other news media where the D's have been appearing.

Escurumbele

(3,706 posts)
63. I agree with you, but it was even before the election...As I have said before, THEY KNEW republicans WOULD
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:32 PM
Feb 3

CHEAT, THEY KNEW what their 2025 plan was, but they did not do enough to protect the election, they did not do enough to campaign for people whose votes may have helped, like the Latino community. I know a lot of Latino people who became MAGAts because of all the weakness Democrats constantly show, they are sorry now, mostly when some of them are afraid some of their family and friends may get deported, but lets face it, people don't think ahead enough and if there is one thing republicans do very well is propaganda...Nazis were very good at propaganda as well.

Whoever said "Democrats need to stop coming to knife fights with a bible on hand" was correct, and it still applies. We have very few Democrats with enough "cojones" to tell it like it is, Bernie Sanders, an Independent is one, Alexandra Ocasio Cortez, Jamie Raskin, Adam Shiff, and a few others, the rest are going around talking about their "republicans friends who they admire", and like someone posted a couple of days ago "WHAT IS THERE TO ADMIRE ABOUT THESE CRIMINALS" who are helping the felon destroy the country? Until when are they going to go on with the hope republicans will become courageous and patriotic? ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

So, YES, a lot of us are frustrated with Democrats not doing what they need to do to fight the up and coming regime. I have always been interested in International politics, I have many friends from Venezuela so when Chavez came to power I kept up with what was going on there, and I see so much resemblance of what happened there with what is happening right now in the USA. On one side you have the crooks, the republicans, who may look incompetent because they are doing things we don't like and are opposite to governing, but that is not their agenda, and THEY ARE VERY COMPETENT at what they are doing, we just don't like it, and then on the other hand you have the Democrats complaining, pointing out "illegalities" which republicans ignore and don't give a crap about, but ZERO ACTION to fight the crooks. I saw that happen in Venezuela, the opposition would be on TV showing articles from the constitution that pointed out the illegalities, and the regime ignoring all of it..."Sticks & Stone Will Break My Bones But Words Will Never Hurt", and that is the motto of republicans, as long as they can proceed with their agenda, any complaints are ignored and invalid to them.

DSandra

(1,404 posts)
3. There won't be *another* time
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 11:43 AM
Feb 3

Tech Billionaires are working with Christian Nationalists to dismantle America. See this video:

dchill

(41,170 posts)
15. Oh, I'm inspired, all right.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 12:39 PM
Feb 3

You KNOW it was Hakeem Jeffries that made that "very inspiring" point. In my personal opinion, that's dividing, not uniting.

mcar

(43,849 posts)
28. You proved the OPs point
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:07 PM
Feb 3

Sure, let's harp on one tweet, or one sentence in an interview, or one short statement and completely ignore all the other actions and statements.

BannonsLiver

(18,637 posts)
34. Reminds me of a story
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:18 PM
Feb 3

Last summer i was talking with a man I am acquainted with at a place where we both frequently socialize. He was very upset about all the Dems teaming up against Biden.

He accused white Dems of trampling on his primary vote (he’s black). Sometimes there was a sort of belligerence/mockery to anyone who tried to push back gently.

Eventually my acquaintance got super mad and defensive. And when the announcement came that Biden was stepping down he became apoplectic, called us fascists and the like. Then he stormed out of the place where we socialize, announcing he would never return.

But to our amazement an hour later he was back, and inspired by Harris. Totally all in. It was as if there was some kind of epiphany.

We were glad to have him back. Occasionally he has a good point. But we don’t take him as seriously as we used to.

Now I can’t remember why brought this up. The old memory ain’t what it used to be. Buy im sure it’s somehow relevant.

angrychair

(10,117 posts)
38. Not trying to be snarky
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:24 PM
Feb 3

But what, outside of flowery speeches and talking to us about God, has Jefferies actually done? Republicans always seem to be able to hamper Democrats when we control the House but our answer always seems to be that we are powerless and unable to do anything to stop "whatever horrible things Republicans want to do inserted here". If I'm missing something they are doing please tell me because I honestly want to know. I've done an extensive amount of digging and can find nothing of substance.

hadEnuf

(2,944 posts)
60. You are very correct. When the GOP is in the minority, they cause enough problems to gum up the whole works.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:30 PM
Feb 3

But when Dem's are in the minority, we get arms thrown up in the air in despair saying there is nothing that can be done by them legislatively.


Also, pointing this out is not "shitting on Democrats", as some others here like to claim.

happy feet

(1,153 posts)
61. You're making the OPs point
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:31 PM
Feb 3

I personally, by rooting around, have been listening to Hakeem and others - weekly! Hakeem does a weekly press conference that the media does not pick up. I look for and find haphazardly, so can't give you a definitive place to find. Perhaps I find searching on you tube in hopes someone has posted.

angrychair

(10,117 posts)
67. Those are speeches, not actions
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:56 PM
Feb 3

What im trying to find are actual actions. I'm asking honestly, no agenda. I need to know they are at least trying because things are pretty hopeless right now.

Examples and what I mean are the Democrats that went down to USAID and/or Treasury and started asking questions and doing press conferences. Physically going somewhere in an act of protest, is doing something. Giving a speech about how you disagree with it but not getting off your ass to actually do anything is my perception of how it's going and I hope my perception is wrong.

BannonsLiver

(18,637 posts)
4. That's exactly right
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 11:43 AM
Feb 3

Yesterday Schumer tweeted that America’s pizza toppings were going up right before the Super Bowl, thanks to Trump.

That’s a powerful message. Almost Churchillian. I personally found it deeply inspiring and felt like it was some sort of call to action.

bigtree

(90,869 posts)
9. call them out
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 12:00 PM
Feb 3

...but what we almost always get from whingers about our party members is the generalization that 'Democrats' see nothing/hear nothing/do nothing which is a baldfaced lie.

stillcool

(33,141 posts)
36. How is it you know that?
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:22 PM
Feb 3

I know my State elected officials are in contact with my federal government officials, trying to get a clear picture of what they can do to protect and defend the people of my state. Is there something else you think they should do?

stillcool

(33,141 posts)
41. Really? Do you have any Democrats
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:29 PM
Feb 3

in any elected position representing you? Ever? Throughout the history of this country?

Think. Again.

(21,382 posts)
57. I don't understand why you're asking me that.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:14 PM
Feb 3

My comment in my post is that our elected Dems as a whole (and the Party leadership) are not acting as a whole to fight back back against the fascism we are now living under.

I feel it's important for them and the Party to clearly and loudly stand united against fascism, and I am not seeing that.

gab13by13

(26,272 posts)
10. Isn't your thread an attack on Democrats?
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 12:20 PM
Feb 3

We have a new forum named, The Way Forward." Do I have your permission to use that forum to give my ideas what Congressional Democrats and we could be doing?

I believe they should be doing town halls across the country which:

1. Counteracts misinformation, disinformation
2. Explains to the people what project 2025 will do to them
3. Is a means to organize the people with game plans to counter the billionaires who are destroying our democracy
4. Stopping Musk/Trump will be up to the people in masse.

Beat them in the next election is a losing strategy at this stage of the game, our house is burning and the strategy to let it burn down and then replace it is a losing strategy. We need to act now.

5. I said nothing bad about Democrats.

Mountain Mule

(1,077 posts)
47. I agree
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:54 PM
Feb 3

This seems like a straw man argument to me. Why attack the members of DU? I supported Biden up to the moment he stepped down and then I supported Kamila with all my heart. Do I agree with every single decision made by Democratic leadership? No, I don't. But I have never trashed Democrats and I never will. I don't need to be on the receiving end of this diatribe. I don't deserve it and neither does DU.

Meowmee

(6,916 posts)
75. No no proof of it, and I will continue to call out anyone who is not fighting this HARD and to give my input
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:44 PM
Feb 3

Longtime D registered as D and voting for D for over 40 YEARS. Voting is what matters most and I have ALWAYS done that and voted for whoever the candidate(s) is/are.

Historic NY

(38,403 posts)
22. What your saying is their message isn't getting out
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 12:53 PM
Feb 3

well they had 4 yrs to do something and they failed. The message is actually dwindling. People aren't listening because its the same old song. Well lets see how new DNC leadership does.

Buzz cook

(2,669 posts)
24. How anti-democratic of you.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 12:57 PM
Feb 3

The ability to criticize our leaders is a central point in a democracy. And for a political party that takes the name Democratic, it would be worse than ironic to condemn that ability.
The Democratic party lost election 2024. "Mistakes were made".
I or anyone else may be wrong about what those mistakes were. Silencing criticism because I'm wrong, also silences people who are right.

Cheer louder, has never been a solution to any problem.

flashman13

(933 posts)
26. I'm not a member of an organized political party - I'm a Democrat. Compliments of Will Rogers 1932 (?).
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:00 PM
Feb 3

All systems normal.

Orrex

(64,639 posts)
70. Now, now. It doesn't work that way.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 04:25 PM
Feb 3

The cheerleaders can demand data and evidence and lengthy citation of arcane legal code; the rest of us simply have to accept the cheerleaders' assertions as revealed wisdom never to be challenged or contested.

Yavin4

(36,897 posts)
30. You want people to follow you? Then Lead!!!
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:10 PM
Feb 3

You want people to vote for you? Then Lead!!!

Leaders lead through a crisis. They don't hide.

Stop putting the onus on the rank and file to be the opposition.

Stop making excuses for poor leadership in a time of crisis.

Response to bigtree (Original post)

stillcool

(33,141 posts)
33. they are outing themselves all over the place
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:16 PM
Feb 3

I don't know if it's always deliberate, or if it's just typical American arrogant ignorance. I have seen it in myself. The willingness to find fault, and pile on. Not bothering to examine the information I add to the ever-growing pile of bullshit.

Orrex

(64,639 posts)
39. And the ones attacking those critics are the same cheeleaders who praised Garland.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:24 PM
Feb 3

The one constant on DU is this: no matter how bad things get, a certain type of DUer will prioritize making other DUers feel like stupid shit about it.

bigtree

(90,869 posts)
43. same people working to fuck this up by attacking Democrats instead of republicans
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:36 PM
Feb 3

...were attacking the people prosecuting Trump instead of the judges and justices who were the ones who actually derailed on indictment and delayed the other for 15 fucking months until VOTERS shut the prosecution down.

The indictments, complete with all of the evidence and witness testimony GARLAND seized as early as 2021 and appealed in dozens of individual cases stretching out sometmes for years, were already succesfully defended in the myriad, successive appeals courts, and Supreme Court, and are sitting there ready for a future prosecution.

But, apparently some people still think attacking the folks who were prosecuting Trump is some sort of political virtue.

Should be a clue to them that the Trump administration is now in the process of persecuting those very investigators and prosecutors at DOJ for the prosecution Garland critics claim didn't happen.

Same self-defeating demagoguery against the Democratic administration's DOJ. And this is supposed to be smart politics?

Or what is it?

Cirsium

(1,664 posts)
53. Stop
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:06 PM
Feb 3

Stop attacking your fellow Democrats just because you disagree with them.

If you are opposed to their politics, than say so and make your case openly and honestly. Stop impugning their motives, questioning their loyalty, insulting them, and mischaracterizing their point of view.

I could respond in kind. You know, "Mr. Chair. Point of order. If someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody’s bleach blond, bad-built butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities, correct?”

“I’m trying to get clarification. Don’t tell me to calm down, because y’all talk noise and then you can’t take it, because if I come and talk sh*t about her, y’all gonna have a problem.”

Orrex

(64,639 posts)
69. Please explain how Orrex, the anonymous nobody, is going to Fuck This Up
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 03:57 PM
Feb 3

And please be fucking specific. What power do I have to Fuck This Up more than it already is? I'm dying to learn of my undiscovered might. Do tell!

That whole "you're going to hurt Democrats' fee-fees" mantra has been the cheerleaders' bullshit rallying cry for years, and they keep bleating it as if it's persuasive rather than ridiculous. Do you really think that any of us here has any impact on the Democratic agenda?

I'll make the same offer to Schumer et al that I made to Garland: if I'm wrong, and if they're getting shit done in defiance of my efforts to Fuck This Up, then I will issue a full and unconditional apology.

Until then...

bigtree

(90,869 posts)
73. it's rather absurd to post on a prominent Democratic message board
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 05:36 PM
Feb 3

...and not expect for your participation to have influence.

Even further dumbfounding to be unaware of the constant and pernicious efforts by so many to exploit divisions within the Democratic party.

That said, it could well be that many of these folks are, in fact, blissfully unaware of the power or influence of their advocacy, or either believe that publicly dragging their own party at critical times like these is more important than the unity that is essential in this closely divided balance of power.

After all, a unified Democratic membership in our national legislature is the ONLY thing that will ultimately influence the law and other important interests that republicans control the outcomes to right now.

I'm not interested in waiting for people like the Gaza disruptions in the middle of the campaign to come to the realization that only a unified Democratic majority would actually do something about their complaints.

It's confounding what people who refuse to support our legislators at times like these, and insist on agitating against our own party members instead of republicans, expect from that indulgence of theirs.

I mean, when does the support for our Democrats who are fighting happen from these folks? They act like it's some anathema to their interests to support the party, when it's everything in a pluralistic government.

Too many folks have either lost sight of those realities, never thought about it, or just don't care.

LW1977

(1,444 posts)
40. Well if Chuck Boomer is going to be weak and Amy Klobuchar wants to "work with" Fascists it's called gor!
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:26 PM
Feb 3

I mean grow F—king Spine!

Maru Kitteh

(29,545 posts)
42. I don't fit your theory at all, I suspect countless others also stand outside your model as well.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:34 PM
Feb 3

I supported Joe Biden with EVERYTHING I had to include time and treasure, and when HE made the decision to step aside, I supported and respected him for making that decision too. He was obviously pressured, but the decision was his and I respect his decision, especially in light of the fact that Joe himself later said he didn’t know if he could serve an additional 4 years.

Then I supported Kamala with EVERYTHING I had. I gave her and the party more than I could afford.

Now I get silence everywhere except for my inbox where all I see are emails telling me if I want to save the country I should send them more money. I’m PISSED OFF and I expect better. I won’t apologize to ANYBODY for that.

The other side planned diligently for 48 months and they made no secret of what they planned to do. They published it, proudly. What the ever-loving FUCK was our “leadership" doing all that time to prepare for what WE ALL KNEW might come to pass? Apparently? Shit.

I repeat: I’m PISSED OFF and I expect better. I won’t apologize to ANYBODY for that.

bigtree

(90,869 posts)
44. I know
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:43 PM
Feb 3

...you told me once that you had no interest in amplifying anything from Democrats.

Not your job, I believe was the gist of your response to me. That's why I didn't take much time considering what you repeated here.

At least we understand each other.

I posted at least two Democratic leaders who outlined their 'plans' to confront Trump and the republicans, just today. Even more in the past weeks.

You see what you want to see.

Maru Kitteh

(29,545 posts)
52. You said I should act as an 'echo' to what leadership are saying. I told you
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:05 PM
Feb 3

as a woman, I have been told to exist as an echo my entire life and I’m done with that shit. Now we got “God is on the throne” and pizza toppings are going up ahead of the Super Bowl.

So long as we have this weak, ineffectual offal to consume, I will not regurgitate and expect others to consume it.

Cirsium

(1,664 posts)
45. Then why are you attacking people?
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:54 PM
Feb 3

If "we're ALL in the resistance now" as you say, then why are you relentlessly attacking fellow Democrats who happen to disagree with you? Your post is insulting, demeaning and condescending. How does that help build unity?

You say "this is legislating time." I say this is protest time. This is resistance time. This is mass organizing time. This is agitation time.

I say this is a time of great crisis and that legislation cannot address this crisis, anymore than legislation could have ended slavery without there first being a militant mass movement of resistance to slavery, the Abolition movement. That movement did not reserve its criticism only or the overtly pro-slavery party. No, the Whigs came under heavy criticism as well.

You say "we are the ultimate engines of our democracy" yet you object to anything other than calling into line with the leadership, and try to smash up those "ultimate engines of democracy."

You say we should not criticize Democrats. But by that you mean don't criticize Democrats in power. Yet you ruthlessly go after rank and file Democrats - "the ultimate engines of our democracy." In other words, punch down, but don't punch up?

Voltaire2

(15,164 posts)
65. "this is legislating time." - how utterly clueless.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:41 PM
Feb 3

I didn't read the endless missive far enough to reach that bit of nonsense. There will be zero legislating by Democrats, as they are out of power, other than votes for Republican legislation, which is exactly the problem. Some of our legislators will enable rather than obstruct, because 'they are the adults in the room'.

GoreWon2000

(1,191 posts)
46. This don't fight back has been going on since 2000
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 01:54 PM
Feb 3

when the dem party leadership abandoned Al Gore and let W get away with stealing the 2000 Presidential election. Then in 2024, a mostly white, anglo male cabal of dems ran the same 2000 anti democracy playbook against Biden. We the people are fed up with our votes being thrown out. The disenfranchisement that happened in 2000 and again in 2024 has caused millions of Americans to give up on democracy. While the tRump/maga/gop keep bringing AK-47s to the fight, the don't fight back dems keep bringing slingshots to the fight. We've been in an all out battle to save American democracy for 25 years and all we get from the clueless dem leadership is more cowardice. Pro democracy forces couldn't have a worse ally than the don't fight back dem leadership.
I'm sorry this is such a tough post but we're in a battle against an all out attack against the democratic principles our country was founded on and that every previous generation of Americans fought and died for. We need to hold our dem party leaders accountable for their failure to act. Now is not the time to be "nice" to our dem party leadership. We the people expect action and results and we're not getting it from the current dem party leadership.

Hekate

(96,033 posts)
49. Thank you for your sheer eloquence, bigtree. Too many to count are acting as our own worst enemy...
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:00 PM
Feb 3

Your phrase “what the fuck did they think would happen? “ just about sums it up.

QUOTE
Most of the same people dragging Dems today are the same people who thought attacking Dems in the last election was fine

...with 'why don't they do this?' or, 'why didn't they do that?

Or Joe Biden is old. Or, why doesn't the U.S. president end the Israeli assault in Gaza. On and on, from one whinge to the next about our own candidate.

What the fuck did people think was going to happen when party leaders and other used their elevated platforms to whine and moan about Joe Biden until he stepped aside?

What the fuck did they think was going to happen leaving the VP with just three months to campaign? And, even then, dragging on the VP with endless projections.

Now we're in a fight where the actual villain is in office and there's no campaign or election within reach, and we have people just leaning into Democrats, instead of attacking republicans, all the while telling us how ineffective Democrats' messaging has been.

They're complaining about messaging, as if publicly dragging Democrats is some sort of opposition to republicans. It's not, and it's actually exploited by people whose interest and entire mission is to divide Democrats among ourselves. It's been that way for decades now.

I pay a lot of attention, and I can confidently say that our Democratic leadership may not be doing that brilliant thing you thought of, but they are, essentially, their own political operation. They are not standing still. They have not been silent. They have been waging their opposition any way they can manage in the minority.

We didn't provide them with enough members to do anything but talk, but, nonetheless, there are people dragging Democrats for stepping out and informing their constituents of what republicans are doing, and urging US to get out and confront the republicans who are in complete control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.

Republicans control the legislative agenda, and they have enough votes to pass almost anything with their own membership. We're basically in a protest/defensive mode at this point; not just Americans, but the people we managed to advance into office.

There will be lawsuits filed, but that's the ONLY direct influence Democrats will have until we have a chance in the midterms to take back control of the legislature. The only power they have is the elevation of their offices and their voices.

When they write a letter demanding the president do something, or demanding he desist, that's their job, and speaking truth to power is the ONLY one we equipped them for in the last election.

THAT's the game right now. Not whether someone didn't say what's in someone else's head, but what they are actually saying. We need to confront our legislators we elected where they actually stand, not where we imagine they should be.

We forfeited any real power of demanding things from our national legislators, because we sent them there neutered and functionally ill-equipped, so, functionally ineffective.

But some people are thinking there's something they can whip out of the wreckage of the election Democratic voters squandered away, by dressing up the minority they engineered for us in Congress like they're actually the ones on power and authority and punching them until they bruise and bleed.

Again, you have to just use that imagination that pretends Democrats have some magic solution they're refusing to deploy, and think of all of the people out there who've never valued a robust and united Democratic party who think this is their moment to tear the party apart, as if they had the ability to put a robust and united opposition party back together again.

Long and short? I know Democrats are speaking out because, I bother to look, read, and listen to more than the teevee news and twitter. We need to amplify those efforts, because we can't organize a resistance with gaslighting and resentment toward our own people.

Our elected Democrats make their efforts, and we endeavor to build on those. Makes sense, unless we intend to nominate ourselves for the legislature. Makes little sense supposing they aren't doing anything because you don't see it on the news.

More folks need to take the time to find out what they're saying and doing and amplifying the advocacy coming from our elected officials. I've seen Raskin, Warren, Jeffries, and countless others, including the unfairly maligned Schumer, all of them out EVERY DAY since the inauguration with their advocacy.

Yes, you have to go look because, the teevee news won't cover them. With the platforms that people use to spread cynicism about out Democrats, they could be piggybacking on the advocacy of our Dems. It's there, they just have to look for themselves. It sucks, but that's the resistance game.

We are the ultimate engines of our democracy; not just the people we manage to elect.

This is legislating time, and we don't have the votes to control anything. What our Democrats in Congress need are our voices in opposition to REPUBLICANS and against what Trump and his maga henchmen are doing to the nation.

We're ALL in the resistance now, both the public and the Democrats we were able to elect. All of us are out of power right now, and the ONLY course that will right this sinking ship is to unite, bail, and hopefully in time, regain the helm.

-Ron

NNadir

(35,095 posts)
50. Thank you profusely. I understand of course the horror of our country dissolving...
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:00 PM
Feb 3

...before our eyes but no Democrat including those in office is doing nothing.

We are all doing what we can.

The terrifying thing was that in 1933, I'm sure that there were Social Democrats who did what they could, but not enough to prevent ending up with Germany's cities in flames, its economy destroyed and it's country dismembered.

nolabear

(43,426 posts)
58. Jaimie Raskin is on fire at USAID. I hope it's contagious.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:19 PM
Feb 3

I agree the Dem bashing is not at all helpful. Encourage, support, let your desires be known, but recognize and support them when they do!

Time to read Elon for filth and force him out of there!

happy feet

(1,153 posts)
59. Thank-you
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 02:27 PM
Feb 3

Needed to be said. The media is blacking out the Dems and never confronting Thune and Johnson who are the majority leaders of Congress with the power to stop this takeover by Musk and Trump of functions belonging to Congress. I've been looking---I haven't seen one network camped out to get comments from Thune and Johnson --- not ONE.

HereForTheParty

(586 posts)
72. Stop voting for Trump nominees
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 04:57 PM
Feb 3

Place a hold on appointments. Quorum calls. Object to unanimous consent requests. Use all procedural weapons possible to gum it up. These are not normal times. Here's one article -

https://indivisible.org/resource/how-senate-democrats-can-shut-down-trumps-agenda-procedural-hardball

Blasphemer

(3,310 posts)
77. I hear you, but it will never change. It's who Dems are.
Mon Feb 3, 2025, 07:14 PM
Feb 3

The GOP excels at staying on message and supporting even the most heinous of candidates. Those who lean left are freer thinkers and we debate each other. I was a grumbler in my younger years, but I fully support the Democratic party and Democratic leadership. I appreciate the way they held the line during the first Trump term. Literally, millions of lives were saved. The economy was saved. They get no credit from anyone - certainly not from conservatives and not even from many on the left. If they do something right, it's not enough. If they do something wrong, they get dragged. I lost many friends during the Obama years because nothing was enough. I'm focusing on local community building and organizing; doing what I can to protect those at highest risk for being targets.

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