General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCould the PTB be VERY aware that disruptions from climate change and resource shortages are catastrophically imminent?
Here's the tl;dr synopsis of my windy missive: "What if what Trusk (Musk, especially) are up to is actually based on them knowing that climate change is real, and it's going to massively f**k up the Earth, and human societies, REALLY soon?"
Sounds somewhat silly given the ACC (anthropogenic climate change) denialism of most right-wingers, including Trump. But consider how what is going on in the US, and lot of other places sadly (Brexit, AFD, Orban, etc), might track with the supposition that a lot of people at the top of the world's power pyramid have decided, without telling us, that it's time for the world population to trend downwards in response to climate change, and possibly petroleum and other resource shortages (demand outstripping supply, IOW) in the near future?
If there's any reality behind my suppositions, a lot of them WOULD deny it's happening, both for the benefit of their thumb-sucking rubes (ya know, cause GAWD controls this stuff, don't you know!), but also to avoid global panic that could endanger their wealth, power, and possibly their lives.
Furthermore, it's likely that an important factor in their calculations would be that climate change will be made worse by people migrating from 2nd-3rd world countries into 1st world countries. The energy/carbon/resource usage footprint of the average person in underdeveloped countries is considerably lower than in places like Europe and the USA. Every such migrant, I'm sorry to put it this way, but they're increasing climate change. It's just simple, factual math, please don't think this is based on prejudice on my part. I point this out because it's possible that what's really in play is not quite as simple as 'racism' and 'xenophobia', at least among our overlords (as opposed to Joe Sixpack, to be clear).
Furthermore, if they believe the earth and society is in serious trouble here, it could also lead them towards believing that 'democracy' is going to cease to be 'viable' in the near future. Reality: humans will never vote to decrease their energy consumption. That will impoverish them and the majority will always vote against it. But they MUST actually reduce it. Well, either that, or there MUST simply be way fewer people. Especially in richer countries. Again, this is just simple, cold logic.
Another point: I don't believe Musk is a climate change denialist, rather, I think he knows what is coming, and better than most of the world does. At the same time, he's a cruel, heartless bastard. He is a perfect 'James Bond Villain' type of dude, just the man for a task like 'global population reduction'. When he says shit like 'this is our best chance of being able to do this, this is our best hand of cards' as he apparently recently said, I don't think it's crazy to consider the possibility he's referring to something even LARGER, and more dastardly, than just the dismantling of the US government.
Then you might say "Jonnie, what about Drill Baby Drill? Surely they cannot believe that's a smart move, if they actually believe in ACC?". To which I say ... they damn well might. If one assumes massive damage is already baked into the cake, what are we (well, the rich people especially) going to be needing more of, in order to mitigate it's effects? Energy. Energy to clean up after disasters, energy to build sea walls, energy to desalinate water for areas of severe drought, energy to run air conditioners, energy to run AI (which is obviously meant to replace the labor of humans), etc, etc, etc. Combine this idea with the possibility that we're actually being lied to about 'known recoverable petroleum reserves', but people like Musk DO know the reality? Gonna need to drill more, find more, right?
Before you say outright "AZJonnie, you're a crazy conspiracy theorist", please ponder this: is there a SINGLE THING Trusk have done in the past 15 days you can point at and say 'now THAT is going to save lives', either in the US, or elsewhere? I know I cannot.
OTOH, what have they done that is likely to KILL people? Most of us can rattle off numerous actions. And now they're working on fucking up NOAA. What does NOAA do? Save lives. FEMA? Also probably on the chopping block. Saves lives. OSHA? Saves lives. ACA will come under massive attack soon, you can bet on that. Pre-existing conditions? Protections removed. More dead. Reduce social security $ and/or push out the retirement age? More dead. NIH & CDC & USAID gutted, and WHO is under fire. All that, more dead. Everywhere.
Sorry to sic 'em on all my friends here, but these are the kinds of depressing and paranoid thoughts I'm currently burdened with. We see they want to kill people, right? But WHY? "Well, because they're evil sick fucks", sure. But is that the ONLY reason? When it comes to Musk's motives, I'm considering we actually may be UNDER estimating the scope of the horror that is actually afoot.
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rampartd
(1,436 posts)AZJonnie
(283 posts)That tracks as well. Greenland is only of considerable resource value if temps there go up, and the ice sheet melts back.
rampartd
(1,436 posts)![](/emoticons/hattip.gif)
Irish_Dem
(63,312 posts)John1956PA
(3,640 posts)I have read that most of Greenland is covered with an ice sheet which, on average, is one mile thick. Even if some areas of Greenland were to see the disappearance of snow and ice cover, the ground would be boggy. Some spots could be hospitable for living during the peak summer days, but the rest of the year would see short daylight hours and very cold temperatures.
Irish_Dem
(63,312 posts)AZJonnie
(283 posts)underneath it. That was how I took the simple "Greenland" response, the person who posted it above seemed to confirm that was their thinking.
Mister Ed
(6,443 posts)...are going to cause a reduction in population sooner rather than later.
I don't think the Powers That Be are too dumb to see what you and I can see. Trump is too dumb, to be sure. But Putin, Musk, Thiel etc.? Nah.
I don't think your suspicions are crazy at all.
Irish_Dem
(63,312 posts)They think they can ride out the disaster.
Ferryboat
(1,100 posts)Many of the elites have purchased property in NZ for safe haven from disruption.
Irish_Dem
(63,312 posts)EarthFirst
(3,377 posts)Ill have to process that; however I dont believe its not out of the realm of possibility.
Regardless; theres terrifying implications afoot.
Take care of yourself!
Avalon Sparks
(2,660 posts)Ive been thinking this since last January.
When Ive mentioned this to a few friends they ask why some of the PTB are pushing for more births, especially Musk.
Any thoughts on that? Im hard pressed to explain a rationale there.
Think. Again.
(21,362 posts)Irish_Dem
(63,312 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 5, 2025, 08:25 AM - Edit history (1)
Preferably male white babies.
ratchiweenie
(8,023 posts)groupie followers. He and Bill Gates do not see eye to eye on this. Melinda and Bill Gates are big promoters of birth control all over the 3rd world. So no, I don't think that' why they want Greenland. I think they want it for the vast mineral resources and access to undersea oil off the coasts.
AZJonnie
(283 posts)On the one hand, yes, it does appear contrary to my theory here. But Eloon is smart enough to know that very few are going to react to his 'make babies' advice in actual practice. Meanwhile, if anyone becomes suspicious that global population reduction is his real goal (a goal which would be considered evil by most, esp. the people he courts for support ... at least if you're talking about de-populating whites), he points at his public stance and laughs at them. Could be it's a 'plausible deniability' type of situation. The response of your 'few friends' would indicate that, if this were his plan, it's working. AND he probably also does want the remaining people to be white people, and the population thereof is def. lagging behind that of POC generally.
Avalon Sparks
(2,660 posts)All the responses to my query have been thoughtful and enlightening, thank you. Of the tech bro billionaire fascists, I think Musk is the only one pounding on the more birth thing. Of course the tech fascists are aligned with the Christian national fascists who definitely want more white babies.
Ponietz
(3,395 posts)Thanks for your post. This is it. The crux.
The train we saw coming a mile down the track is upon us. It was 125 degrees in Delhi this year. Eggs will be $10 each in the near future. Where I live weve had 2 of snow this winter. Normal is around 18. Our forests were already ravaged by wildfires and pine beetle infestations. Without the snowpack, theyll all burn.
The unspoken subtext in this last election was how to address it. We Democrats KNOW all of humanity is in this together but dont really have a coherent vision of how to proceed. Touting the capitalist economy just kicks the can. Electric cars and windmills dont cut it.
Republicans, on the other hand, are in it for themselves, and are content when other people die. Some of them are not averse to doing the killing themselves. Theyve been preparing, since 2017, to tell the rest of the world to fuck off while Russia becomes our only ally. (Ive pointed this out here since joining in 18.) Let Vlad have Ukraine, the Baltics, and Finland. Republicans aspire to drive their Teslas around Baffin Island to play golf when all the nasty people are out of the way. An Education department is superfluous in an apocalypse.
Already, since January 20th, fuck off Panama. Denmark. Canada. Mexico. China. Palestinians. Well see tomorrow if he tells the Saudis to FO. It seems to me that Musk is using military grade artificial intelligence to map his steps.
China has a different plan. I dont believe Covid originated at a fish market.
Some here ask what is their end goal?
Behold. Human sacrifice.
Think. Again.
(21,362 posts)...and we all know it's way too taboo of a subject to discuss directly with the masses.
And you're right, a major population decrease is going to happen either by a decrease in birth rate (not gonna happen) or by natural disasters caused by Climate Collapse (probably already baked in).
By the way, have you seen this?...
https://m.
Aaeia
(117 posts)I have shared this on bluesky. Are we too late?
biophile
(579 posts)Zuckerberg in Hawaii, Walton family in AR, for example.
NJCher
(38,693 posts)Is he on the main island?
biophile
(579 posts)Per Google
Voltaire2
(15,158 posts)A white christian usa will take what it needs and eliminate all who stand in its way.
This is of course utter folly, depraved, and millions are going to die.
Ollie Garkie
(240 posts)I was going to start something similar. Yes to most of what you say. Maybe they won't kill us all just yet. Before AI can replace all of our labor, those evil fucks need to run the economy the old fashioned way, so ya get Roe v Wade overturned and ya get Musk bitchin bout teh wimminz not pumpin out nuff babies anymore. So, yes, in the face of more or less imminent climate change or limits to growth induced collapse, why wouldn't the ruling elite impoverish us to conserve resources for themselves(although, the cokehead fratboys on wall street in particular do usually seem to think the party will go 4evah, baby)? And then, after yanking the rug, keep us under control through Nazi or Stalinist or Gilead shit.
This past weekend I caught some creepy clips from a creepy conservative Christian podcast that made me think "we are being prepped for something, and these fuckin weirdos on this show are either a lot smarter than they seem or they are getting an inside line from someone(s) important"
Oh, my other fuckin conspiracy theory for a while has been that the silly horseshit CTs concocted by the right are a conspiracy to keep people from considering more plausible scenarios.
Irish_Dem
(63,312 posts)They know the shit is going to hit the fan and they want to ensure their survival.
They need as much of the world's resources as possible.
Buckeyeblue
(5,774 posts)I'm not sure this is anything more than a power grab. If it's motivated by the realization that finite resources are dwindling, it would make sense to try to get rid of democracy. Get the people used to being told what to do, so when the shit hits the fan they have no expectation that any help is coming.
But in the end they want rich people richer, poor people poorer. The DEI stuff is just a way to keep people hating each other.
harumph
(2,506 posts)conservation and gave his so-called (by the right) malaise speech, he was rejected. People don't want to see what's
coming. It's too depressing for most to take in. Liberal reality demographic has been saying that we need lower consumption, widespread education and preparation to deal with climate change, but right wing crazy demographic is fatalistic and doesn't give a shit about informing people and thus increasing people's chances to survive. IOW, there are smart people in both camps - but the respective solutions to the problem couldn't be more different.
Brenda
(1,451 posts)The right wing reaction to things is either "It's God's will" or "What can I do about it?" and that's by design. Right wing minds are primed for Authoritarianism and totally against Collectivism.
Good OP, I mostly agree.
C_U_L8R
(46,133 posts)who welcome the apocalypse and do whatever they can to seed it because they think their private island bomb shelters will keep them safe and they will eventually emerge as supreme rulers of the planet. The kind of bullshit you dream up when you're out of your gourd on ketamine.
Remember, Charles Manson had the same plan.
hunter
(39,230 posts)Their wealth won't mean a thing when it comes their time to die.
GreenWave
(10,022 posts)but they will die just the same from killing the environment.