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orangecrush

(28,080 posts)
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 05:52 PM Feb 2025

Should Biden have refused to cede the Whitehouse to Trump? (Poll)


Should have put the brakes on before we went over the cliff, ya think?
57 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Yes
9 (16%)
No
48 (84%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
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Should Biden have refused to cede the Whitehouse to Trump? (Poll) (Original Post) orangecrush Feb 2025 OP
With all due respect, this isn't about Joe. Joinfortmill Feb 2025 #1
He could have refused orangecrush Feb 2025 #2
How incredibly silly. You would just have him declare himself dictator? tritsofme Feb 2025 #4
It doesn't matter if Joe had refused to leave the White House. LudwigPastorius Feb 2025 #19
That's ridiculous. Don't lower us to their level. confoosed Feb 2025 #21
Welcome to DU orangecrush Feb 2025 #29
Where in the constitutional order do you see 34 (or 3400) felony convictions baring a Presidential term? nt kelly1mm Feb 2025 #27
I think orangecrush Feb 2025 #28
How? Shrek Feb 2025 #3
Yes! DET Feb 2025 #5
I'm not blaming Joe AT ALL for what Trump is doing orangecrush Feb 2025 #6
Leaving all the rest of this aside, there's absolutely nothing that the Supreme Court's ruling would have given Biden EdmondDantes_ Feb 2025 #7
Nobody said anything about becoming a dictator DET Feb 2025 #8
That is exactly what you are proposing. After 1/20, he was no longer president. tritsofme Feb 2025 #9
No, It Is Not DET Feb 2025 #10
You can play whatever semantic games you like to avoid at least rhetorically embracing a dictatorship. tritsofme Feb 2025 #13
Did anyone even know what Musk was up to before the elections? Crunchy Frog Feb 2025 #17
Yes and No DET Feb 2025 #22
Imo yes and the election should have been investigated Meowmee Feb 2025 #11
I don't know how anyone paying any attention orangecrush Feb 2025 #12
No, because it would case a Civil War, and one that we would not win (nor deserve to) Polybius Feb 2025 #14
Don't Look Now... DET Feb 2025 #18
No possible way that he could have. Crunchy Frog Feb 2025 #15
yes but with a caveat: Harris would have needed to mount a legal challenge cadoman Feb 2025 #16
By then it was too late. Biden's doj failed the nation ecstatic Feb 2025 #20
But we might have had a President DeSantis instead Polybius Feb 2025 #41
It's not like Biden so likely moot mvd Feb 2025 #23
My thoughts exactly orangecrush Feb 2025 #37
Sadly, I think ALL the other "safeguards" failed. President Biden had no power to do anything. Sparkly Feb 2025 #24
Another "Why didn't Democrats stop ____ ?" betsuni Feb 2025 #25
It should never have gotten to that point. Mike Niendorff Feb 2025 #26
The American people took a test in November, and they failed it. Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #30
I respect that orangecrush Feb 2025 #36
NO. The Constitution is a suicide pact HAB911 Feb 2025 #31
Speak for yourself orangecrush Feb 2025 #35
LOL HAB911 Feb 2025 #39
Agree orangecrush Feb 2025 #40
Sadly, I have to say no. The time for opposition was right after the votes were "counted." In my mind, Vinca Feb 2025 #32
Joe Biden is a decent human being. PennRalphie Feb 2025 #33
trump is erasing the Federal gov. Biden wouldn't even fire DeJoy themaguffin Feb 2025 #34
This place.... Mountainguy Feb 2025 #38
The lack of basic civic understanding here is scary. Self Esteem Feb 2025 #42
Let's face it - more people backed the Day One Dictator HereForTheParty Feb 2025 #43
I don't buy that. orangecrush Feb 2025 #44
The Trumpers didn't "buy that" in 2020 either. tritsofme Feb 2025 #45
Wrong question. Hope22 Feb 2025 #46
Great point orangecrush Feb 2025 #47
On what basis? live love laugh May 2025 #48

orangecrush

(28,080 posts)
2. He could have refused
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 06:26 PM
Feb 2025

On any number of grounds.

34 felony convictions, for example.

Inciting an insurrection.

Let it make it's way through the courts.

Apparently they have no such concern for such niceties as established norms, and now we're all gonna pay for it.

tritsofme

(19,766 posts)
4. How incredibly silly. You would just have him declare himself dictator?
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 06:31 PM
Feb 2025

None of those are grounds that he could have pretended that his term didn’t end.

What makes you think he could have even pulled his off? His term would have been over, his orders meaningless.

Trump is the only one who would have been amused by seeing federal agents drag Biden out of the White House.

What a terrible “idea”

LudwigPastorius

(14,047 posts)
19. It doesn't matter if Joe had refused to leave the White House.
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 11:01 PM
Feb 2025

The Constitution states quite clearly:

The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January,


After noon, on the 20th, he was no longer the President, just a citizen in the White House, and he would have been escorted out.

orangecrush

(28,080 posts)
29. Welcome to DU
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 07:46 AM
Feb 2025

And from now on we are going to go lower than their level if that's what it takes.

If not, we are going to be driven before them.


 

kelly1mm

(5,756 posts)
27. Where in the constitutional order do you see 34 (or 3400) felony convictions baring a Presidential term? nt
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:19 AM
Feb 2025

DET

(2,349 posts)
5. Yes!
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 08:12 PM
Feb 2025

Biden could have invoked something - anything - to stop this farce. If nothing else, he could have cited his newfound powers from the Supreme Court to demand a pause. Biden knew damn well that the election was stolen, as did most sentient human beings. But amazingly nobody lifted a finger in protest. Kamala should not have certified the results and should have demanded a pause while recounts were conducted and an investigation was made. I will never understand why this did not happen. Now we have two insane psychopaths tearing the country apart. And we knew exactly what they were planning on doing before the election (Project 2025 - the blueprint for destruction of our democracy)!

I’m sorry that this post is critical of Democrats, but a bit of introspection is warranted at this point. Biden did many great things, but IMHO he failed us on this.

orangecrush

(28,080 posts)
6. I'm not blaming Joe AT ALL for what Trump is doing
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 08:18 PM
Feb 2025

But I feel it was a mistake not going everything possible to block him.

EdmondDantes_

(1,311 posts)
7. Leaving all the rest of this aside, there's absolutely nothing that the Supreme Court's ruling would have given Biden
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 08:33 PM
Feb 2025

that would allow that. It says the President can't be charged for official acts. There's nothing that would qualify as official about becoming a dictator or refusing to leave office. Then there's that said protection wouldn't extend to whoever you think was going to enforce his ascension to dictatorship. You may have noticed that a number of things Trump has tried to do have already been put on hold by the courts. You would think that this would put an end to the claim that the president has unlimited power given Trump would absolutely love unlimited power.

DET

(2,349 posts)
8. Nobody said anything about becoming a dictator
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 08:57 PM
Feb 2025

Except Trump. Nor did I say that the Supreme Court gave unlimited power to the President. The definition of ‘official acts’ is ambiguous. Somehow I suspect that the SC would take a more liberal view of acts committed by Trump under this ridiculous ruling. Refusing to certify a clearly stolen election is not unreasonable. Especially when dealing with someone who you know is planning to destroy the entire world order (Musk via Trump).

Musk is rigging other countries elections as well as ours, and they’re addressing the issue forcefully but peacefully. It may have been possible to work with NATO or some other international governing body to pause elections until Musk was contained. I really don’t know. I just know that we needed some outside the box thinking before our country was handed over to a madman.

tritsofme

(19,766 posts)
9. That is exactly what you are proposing. After 1/20, he was no longer president.
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:16 PM
Feb 2025

No matter what, the term was over.

You are suggesting he ought to have just declared himself dictator.

You might as well own that.

DET

(2,349 posts)
10. No, It Is Not
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:26 PM
Feb 2025

You can say that a million times (and I’m sure that you will), but that does mean that it’s true. Hell, even if it was true, I’d sure prefer Dictator Biden to Dictator Trump. Wouldn’t you? Trump was even kind enough to tell us he planned to become a dictator before the election.

tritsofme

(19,766 posts)
13. You can play whatever semantic games you like to avoid at least rhetorically embracing a dictatorship.
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:33 PM
Feb 2025

I’m not sure you fool anyone but yourself.

Our failure to defeat Trump in the election was catastrophic, but it doesn’t mean I would support making Biden or anyone “our” dictator.

DET

(2,349 posts)
22. Yes and No
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 01:12 AM
Feb 2025

Trump said before the election that he would appoint Musk to head up DOGE, which was supposed to find efficiencies in the government. That should have sent up red flags given Musk’s history of mismanagement and lying and Trump’s history of fraud and grift.

Meowmee

(9,212 posts)
11. Imo yes and the election should have been investigated
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:27 PM
Feb 2025

We are now in grave danger from so many bad actors. Who is going to protect us now?

Polybius

(21,394 posts)
14. No, because it would case a Civil War, and one that we would not win (nor deserve to)
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:41 PM
Feb 2025

The end result would be much worse than the Trump 2.0 that we're seeing now.

DET

(2,349 posts)
18. Don't Look Now...
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 11:00 PM
Feb 2025

…but we’re going to have a civil war anyway. And in time, even the MAGATs aren’t going to put up with this shit. We would have been much better off if we still had the levers of power going in.

 

cadoman

(1,617 posts)
16. yes but with a caveat: Harris would have needed to mount a legal challenge
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:46 PM
Feb 2025

It was Harris' candidacy and she decided to concede the next day.

She's still our de-facto leader so I trust her judgement on the matter, though I don't agree with her choice based on the facts as I know them.

ecstatic

(35,003 posts)
20. By then it was too late. Biden's doj failed the nation
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 11:46 PM
Feb 2025

If the doj had simply upheld and enforced the law after the terrorist attack / coup attempt that occurred on January 6th 2021, we wouldn't be here right now.

Obviously, that's not something we want to hear but we have to be honest about everything that led us to this moment. And the worst part is it's not even clear that trump actually won. If someone tries to overthrow the government once and gets away with it, they're going to try again. And it's very possible that elon helped trump to succeed this time. He should not have even had the opportunity to steal it.

mvd

(65,826 posts)
23. It's not like Biden so likely moot
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 01:19 AM
Feb 2025

And just like Trump would have been forced to leave, Biden would have been too. But Biden staying in sure would be a good first resistance move.

Sparkly

(24,819 posts)
24. Sadly, I think ALL the other "safeguards" failed. President Biden had no power to do anything.
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 01:29 AM
Feb 2025

Two impeachments, on OBVIOUS grounds, failed, thanks to cowardly Republicans in the Senate.

Multiple charges with clear evidence fell through in several states, thanks to partisan courts, right up to the 'Supremes.' By the time the DOJ stepped up, it was too late.

The last 'safeguard' was the intelligence of the populace, to prevent such a criminal enterprise from ruling the country -- and that failed. So here we are.

I am powerless now, but I fear for my daughter and granddaughter.

Mike Niendorff

(3,633 posts)
26. It should never have gotten to that point.
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:05 AM
Feb 2025

After J6 and the recovery of stolen national security information at Mar-A-Lago, Trump should have been rotting in a prison cell for the rest of his miserable fascist life -- along with his co-conspirators.

Failure to enforce the law has consequences.

MDN

Tommy Carcetti

(44,383 posts)
30. The American people took a test in November, and they failed it.
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 07:58 AM
Feb 2025

And unfortunately there are consequences for that.

And we’ll have to figure out a way to fix that, but a solution can’t be upending our democratic election process.

Can’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

orangecrush

(28,080 posts)
36. I respect that
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 01:15 PM
Feb 2025

But I suggest those who say no bookmark, and see if they still feel that way a year from now.

HAB911

(10,246 posts)
39. LOL
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 01:20 PM
Feb 2025

caveat: unless we stop playing by the rules and it's not looking good at this point

Vinca

(53,220 posts)
32. Sadly, I have to say no. The time for opposition was right after the votes were "counted." In my mind,
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 08:31 AM
Feb 2025

there were a number of suspicious things surrounding the election, but Democrats opted not to make a fuss. There should have been a few court challenges and questioning of things like those bullet ballots. Since Trump was immediately acknowledged as the winner, Biden had no choice but to go through with a normal transition. I hope the 2026 elections won't be hacked by Musk's satellites - assuming we even have elections - but I won't be surprised if every Republican "wins."

 

PennRalphie

(448 posts)
33. Joe Biden is a decent human being.
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 09:10 AM
Feb 2025

So, no. He followed the constitution and laws of the land.

Yes, we should have known what trump was going to do. He told us. But the Gen Z strategists and senior Democratic politicians working on the Harris campaign didn’t focus on all of that enough. It was full steam ahead with rallies featuring Beyoncé and Katy Perry. The world needs to understand-when a bad man tells you what he’s going to do, believe him.

themaguffin

(4,885 posts)
34. trump is erasing the Federal gov. Biden wouldn't even fire DeJoy
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 09:13 AM
Feb 2025

and before someone says "Biden can't fire him." My point is that trump is ignoring all such rules and laws.
Of course not all of it is working, but the damage is done in most cases. The people will be gone.

 

Mountainguy

(2,145 posts)
38. This place....
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 01:20 PM
Feb 2025

Trump is a dictator! Biden should have ignored the election and declared himself king!

Biden didn't have and more authority to ignore an election than Trump did.

We lost to a guy that had 34 felonies. We probably need to address WHY that happened and why we are so unpopular that is could.

 

Self Esteem

(2,248 posts)
42. The lack of basic civic understanding here is scary.
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 11:22 PM
Feb 2025

Remember four years ago when there was talk Trump would do exactly what you're saying Biden should do? Nothing would have kept Biden in office - just like it wouldn't have worked for Trump in 2021. Biden could get on national TV and say, "I'm not leaving and I will declare martial law..." and nothing will happen because his term will end at 11:59am on 1/20. There's nothing that allows for him to extend his term. Legally, the second noon strikes in Washington on 1/20, the new president takes control. That means the military is now under his leadership - not Biden's.

It was the same in 2021 and all that talk about Trump refusing to give up power. The second it struck noon, Trump was no longer president and had he refused to give up power, the Secret Service would have forcibly removed him from the White House.

There's no mechanism that would have allowed for Biden to just declare he's not leaving the White House.

tritsofme

(19,766 posts)
45. The Trumpers didn't "buy that" in 2020 either.
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 11:46 PM
Feb 2025

And the conspiracy theories they hawked weren’t any better than these ones, or much different at all.

The difference being that our leaders like Harris didn’t try to fool their supporters with nonsense and scam them out of millions of dollars “fighting” nothing…because they lost.

Hope22

(4,420 posts)
46. Wrong question.
Sun Feb 16, 2025, 11:33 PM
Feb 2025

Should Harris have requested battleground states be recounted on the grounds that T said PA was rigged repeatedly. In light of T telling voters he didn’t need their votes.

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