Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

NJCher

(38,705 posts)
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 08:14 PM Saturday

The Real Reason Vivek Ram. Dumped Doge + My Prediction

This is from a Washington Post article published earlier today:

snip

Within days, it became clear that Musk’s ambitions were not merely to remake government technology, as some speculated, but to revamp the entire federal bureaucracy. DOGE co-leader Vivek Ramaswamy, the biotech entrepreneur and former GOP presidential candidate, quickly left the project amid differences over Musk’s plans to dismantle government by foregrounding technology and bypassing Congress.

Here's a no-paywall link to the article, which is entitled: In chaotic Washington blitz, Elon Musk’s ultimate goal becomes clear

Here's the thing: AI is not ready for prime time and we all know it. There have been a variety of articles out there telling us this for some time. Here are a few, published last year:

12 famous AI disasters
A few of their examples:
ChatGPT hallucinates court cases
AI algorithms identify everything but COVID-19
Zillow wrote down millions, slashed workforce due to algorithmic home-buying disaster
McDonald’s ends AI experiment after drive-thru ordering blunders
Dataset trained Microsoft chatbot to spew racist tweets

32 times artificial intelligence got it catastrophically wrong
This article is particularly pertinent to why we cannot have AI operating the U.S. government:
Mass resignation due to discriminatory AI.
Yes, indeed, Dutch parliamentarians had to resign because a faulty algorithm. Even the prime minister had to resign over this one! The story is covered and has a link at the above Live Science link.
Other stories covered in this article:
Medical chatbot's harmful advice
AI sending people into wildfires

Here are some AI disasters covered by MIT Technology Review:
The 8 worst technology failures of 2024
Boeing Starliner
CrowdStrike outage
23andMe

----------------------------

My prediction: So now we see that Musk's real plan is to install AI in the federal government. This will not fly with anybody, not even his fellow republicans. When this gets known across the board, you're going to see a rapid turning away from Musk. I would say it will take something like 10-12 days for this to get the attention needed to boot this crazy asshole out of the WH. Keep in mind that for this to get traction, the disasters with AI will have to be known, publicized across the spectrum.

You never, ever, ever experiment with a technology on a large scale. That is what Musk is trying to do, and all the decision makers in business and government know you don't enact on a wide scale.

What you do it test market it. An example would be new product introductions. I was one of the marketing managers at McDonalds who helped roll out Chicken McNuggets. We test marketed it in NY, which many considered way, way too big of a market for a new product intro. Usually they test market in places like Peoria (thus the question always asked of a new product, "Will it Play in Peoria?" ) .

The product was a huge success, but never, ever would they have rolled it out across the U.S. in one shot.

In the AI drive-thru test, referred to in one of the above articles, McDonald's experimented with AI in only 100 drive-thrus. They pulled the test because it failed.

------------

This is what happens when you have a completely inept person like trump as the president. Too stupid to know you don't do something like roll out an unproven technology in the world's largest government. Then you have Musk, who is equally isolated about what really has to happen (he thinks you "just hire people" ), and you get a gigantic disaster like what we are seeing unfold right now.



42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Real Reason Vivek Ram. Dumped Doge + My Prediction (Original Post) NJCher Saturday OP
Can you imagine Musk's AI launching nuclear warheads no_hypocrisy Saturday #1
Crashing cars. Crashing rockets. Crashing democracy. cbabe Saturday #2
And don't forget planes. ananda Saturday #11
Depends on whose money you're playing with. Phoenix61 Saturday #3
I'm beginning to think most of his money... littlemissmartypants Saturday #28
I've been thinking the same NJCher Sunday #33
❤️ littlemissmartypants Sunday #34
There seems to be quite a bit of this stillcool Saturday #4
Some here on du started speculating about mwmisses4289 Saturday #21
Thank you for this -- and Chicken McNuggets :) Alice B. Saturday #5
You would think canetoad Saturday #6
Elon Musk actually likes cruelty. An actual quote from an Investor that knows him DSandra Saturday #16
That Fascist a-hole needs to get thrown in jail. Justice matters. Saturday #7
Vivek Ramaswamy, the biotech entrepreneur Botany Saturday #8
please re-read NJCher Saturday #13
If you believe he's a con man why do you believe that's why he left? Ilikepurple Saturday #26
In your O.P. either you or the Post article gave him the erroneous tittle of Biotech Entrepreneur which he is not Botany Sunday #32
i have a strong suspicion that Blue Cross barbtries Saturday #9
As a side note, was it Blue Cross moonscape Saturday #19
i looked it up barbtries Sunday #37
Dashcam Footage Suggests Reasons for Tesla Autopilot Crashes struggle4progress Saturday #10
How long before musk shuts down fed investigators? cbabe Saturday #15
Shows very clearly that STOP is not programmed for unknown circumstances dickthegrouch Saturday #24
Tesla Deaths struggle4progress Saturday #12
AI tech is way beyond many of the 'disasters' posted JCMach1 Saturday #14
Want to add Dan Saturday #17
you are correct NJCher Saturday #20
don't agree with this, however NJCher Saturday #22
Well, I hope you're right cause I do Dan Saturday #23
This is what happens when people keep telling you you're the smartest man alive. bluesbassman Saturday #18
More than likely musk created bots writing the favorable comments. NoMoreRepugs Saturday #27
Mr. Terminator! Mr Terminator! I saw Sarah Connor! She's right over there! tclambert Saturday #25
I've thought for a while that Vivek is the smart one ribrepin Saturday #29
KICK. Many thanks for the link Hekate Sunday #30
Has eLOONazi Raided USPS Yet? MrWowWow Sunday #31
much to think about NJCher Sunday #35
Ok, but intrepidity Sunday #36
be specific NJCher Sunday #38
Dismantling the various agencies, intrepidity Sunday #39
there is a system NJCher Sunday #40
I yearn for your optimism intrepidity Sunday #41
It's really not optimism NJCher Yesterday #42

Phoenix61

(17,898 posts)
3. Depends on whose money you're playing with.
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 08:57 PM
Saturday

He’d never do this with his own money but he’s more than happy to do it with ours.

littlemissmartypants

(26,576 posts)
28. I'm beginning to think most of his money...
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 11:48 PM
Saturday

Is just on paper.

His companies aren't meeting their financial obligations. His products are not that great. Most of his revenue/wealth comes from government contracts. There are (maybe were) active investigations into many of his legacy and new ventures, like Neurolink, being led by a variety of US government agencies.

He's not very smart. In fact he seems to be a pseudo-intellectual. He's a bully and he behaves like a psychopath.

Plus, he's a drug addict.

mwmisses4289

(393 posts)
21. Some here on du started speculating about
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:25 PM
Saturday

this being the end goal after musk and his tech brats crashed the third gov agency earlier this week. Looks like they were right.

canetoad

(18,546 posts)
6. You would think
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 09:15 PM
Saturday

That before thousands - maybe millions, lose their jobs to AI there would be an informed discussion of a universal wage.

Well, that's what I would think. MMMV (musk's mileage may vary). Oh, and does AI pay income tax?

DSandra

(1,404 posts)
16. Elon Musk actually likes cruelty. An actual quote from an Investor that knows him
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:01 PM
Saturday

"He is doing it because he likes wielding power more than anything else. It's more fun to ruin hundreds of thousands of people's lives than to ruin just hundreds of people's lives"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/elon-musk-doge-donald-trump-silicon-valley

Justice matters.

(7,817 posts)
7. That Fascist a-hole needs to get thrown in jail.
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 09:27 PM
Saturday

Leader and co-conspirator of a mob who breached government data illegally.

Botany

(73,112 posts)
8. Vivek Ramaswamy, the biotech entrepreneur
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 09:28 PM
Saturday
He is a con man.

Please he owned a pharmaceutical company and started a biz that his mother was head of and
the only employee and she pushed the false story that a drug her son’s company owned was good
@ treating Alzheimer’s and the stock in that company soared and then Vivek, his brother, and mother
all sold their stock and walked away with millions before people learned that the drug was useless
against Alzheimer’s.

NJCher

(38,705 posts)
13. please re-read
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 09:45 PM
Saturday

My post does not in any way condone Ramaswamy. One of the reasons I posted this is that no one has figured out why he left. In fact, do a search here and you will find a thread about when he walked away from Doge. Posters were trying to figure out why he did so. Not one poster got it right.

As far as your comment "he is a con man", name one who's not. Why are you posting the obvious?

Ilikepurple

(161 posts)
26. If you believe he's a con man why do you believe that's why he left?
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 11:34 PM
Saturday

Trust his word? The word of a source close to him? I think your OP is informative, but do you really think we now know why he walked away. We don’t even know if he was booted. Your post implies that Ramaswamy was too smart or moral to get on board. Maybe that’s the case, maybe not. I for one still don’t know the “real” reason he’s no longer a DOGE co-captain, but I am glad to see your detailed posts discussing what could possibly be going on with Musk’s plan.

Botany

(73,112 posts)
32. In your O.P. either you or the Post article gave him the erroneous tittle of Biotech Entrepreneur which he is not
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 06:46 AM
Sunday

I know the office complex and the area very well where Rama Ling AAA ding dong had his
“biotech biz” and they are just offices with no biotech work being done there at all. And his
mother had the office next door to him and his brother where they ran their multimillion $
scam which prayed on people desperately trying to find help from the scourge of Alzheimer’s
by falsely spreading misinformation about having a medicine that showed promise in treatment
for that awful disease. So he might have left doing business with Musk for one reason or another
but he is just like Trump in that he is just a piece of shit who got rich stealing money from people
by being a con man.

barbtries

(30,153 posts)
9. i have a strong suspicion that Blue Cross
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 09:29 PM
Saturday

has turned over claims reviews to the same AI that USHealth (? the company with the assassinated CEO?) used. The one with a 90% error rate. I'm getting denials right and left for no apparent reason and it is maddening.

moonscape

(5,438 posts)
19. As a side note, was it Blue Cross
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:17 PM
Saturday

that was going to implement the anesthesiology reimbursement that limited the time they would cover based on procedure? If it took longer, too bad, no reimbursement? And they pulled back after extreme pushback?

barbtries

(30,153 posts)
37. i looked it up
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 07:32 PM
Sunday

it was Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield.

my coverage doesn't say Anthem anywhere, but clearly there is some relationship.

dickthegrouch

(3,896 posts)
24. Shows very clearly that STOP is not programmed for unknown circumstances
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:33 PM
Saturday

STOP
is what a well trained human would have done. Who can consider a car well trained if it doesn’t know how to STOP?
Script kiddies have no business creating car controls.

struggle4progress

(121,236 posts)
12. Tesla Deaths
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 09:43 PM
Saturday

We provide an updated record of Tesla fatalities and Tesla accident deaths that have been reported and as much related crash data as possible (e.g. location of crash, names of deceased, etc.). This sheet also tallies each claimed and confirmed Tesla autopilot crash, i.e. every instance of when Autopilot was activated during a Tesla crash that resulted in death. Read our other sheets for additional data and analysis on Tesla crashes per vehicle miles traveled, links and analysis comparing Musk's safety claims, and more ...

Updated on 2024-12-27: Added last known regular Tesla and Autopilot fatalities for 2024. Updated tallies for the year totals. Performed light formatting cleanup ...

https://www.tesladeaths.com/

JCMach1

(28,293 posts)
14. AI tech is way beyond many of the 'disasters' posted
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 09:46 PM
Saturday

Having said that, the operative example i think is not AI, but Musk's Boring Company and the sham tech he sold Last Vegas on.

Ie it was always going to be a con job

Dan

(4,282 posts)
17. Want to add
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:10 PM
Saturday

Not only do you do a ‘test project or proof of concept’, you also normally have your existing system in place to verify the results - in other words both the new and old systems running parallel.

Musk’s plan to implement a full system implementation without a corresponding backup (thus the terminations) can potentially result in a total system failure without a recovery method. In other words - once he implements then regardless of success or failure - there is no turning back.

This could potentially be a disaster beyond belief. And since Musk is a ‘special government employee’ there is no ability to bring legal actions against him or recover damages by the people he has harmed.

Very worse case - system failure and shut down the likes of which we have never seen before. Not only will federal payments not process but there would be no method of recovery UNLESS the system could be rebooted/reloaded to an earlier time. That also means that the original hardware and software is still in place to run the original applications AND you could get the staff (rehired) and back in place.

Only thing I would say is have cash on hand.

P.S. I didn’t want to get into the database and applications interfaces with other systems both within the federal government and outside.

NJCher

(38,705 posts)
20. you are correct
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:20 PM
Saturday

I wanted to elaborate more in my OP, but I was already tempting tldr. I am referring to your first two paragraphs.

At McD's we would not only do the testing but have the systems in place; the systems would have been tested and re-tested. Not only that, but because McD's is made up of franchisees, all of whom are independent businessmen who respect and trust each other for just that reason, they would be given a forum on which to report their experience. Such forums were (back at the time I was there) large owner-operator meetings.

As far as republicans turning away from Musk, take a look at this, posted by TexasTowelie:

Poll: Republicans Are Done with Elon Musk... Approval Plummets - Rebel HQ

NJCher

(38,705 posts)
22. don't agree with this, however
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:26 PM
Saturday
And since Musk is a ‘special government employee’ there is no ability to bring legal actions against him or recover damages by the people he has harmed.

You can bring charges against the government; it's not easy but it can be done.

In this case, I don't know why you are saying this because the entire apparatus by which trump appointed him is suspect. The legal issues will be complex, but believe me, when you have the kind of assets he supposedly has, they (meaning the government--when it is eventually made right), will go after him.

Dan

(4,282 posts)
23. Well, I hope you're right cause I do
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:30 PM
Saturday

Believe that harm would/could be done.

I kind of wonder about that special employee status too. But I based my thought processes on the idea that as a Federal Employee working in a position within the federal government, you are somewhat free of liability for actions taken while acting in good faith.

When I was a government employee I know that I never worried about being liable for actions taken on the job, even if I made a mistake.

Oh, I re-read your statement - Yes I am in total agreement that you can sue the government. What I was referring to is the ability to sue MUSK & his team directly. Hope that clarifies a bit (I am old, smiling).

We are in new territory now (smile).

bluesbassman

(20,063 posts)
18. This is what happens when people keep telling you you're the smartest man alive.
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 10:14 PM
Saturday

He has tens of thousands of his Muskrats fawning over him every day on X, defending his actions with claims of his intelligence putting him on a different level than the rest of us mere mortals. It’s gone to his head and he believes he’s infallible. So now that he has the keys to the country he thinks he can just slam his AI into the works and of course it’ll work because he’s all powerful.

tclambert

(11,153 posts)
25. Mr. Terminator! Mr Terminator! I saw Sarah Connor! She's right over there!
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 11:16 PM
Saturday

Elon Musk is rooting FOR the Terminator.

ribrepin

(1,830 posts)
29. I've thought for a while that Vivek is the smart one
Sat Feb 8, 2025, 11:52 PM
Saturday

I don't like the guy, but I thought that he saw something he didn't like and got the hell out of dodge.

Hekate

(96,033 posts)
30. KICK. Many thanks for the link
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 12:15 AM
Sunday
The Real Reason Vivek Ram. Dumped Doge + My Prediction

This is from a Washington Post article published earlier today:

snip

Within days, it became clear that Musk’s ambitions were not merely to remake government technology, as some speculated, but to revamp the entire federal bureaucracy. DOGE co-leader Vivek Ramaswamy, the biotech entrepreneur and former GOP presidential candidate, quickly left the project amid differences over Musk’s plans to dismantle government by foregrounding technology and bypassing Congress.

Here's a no-paywall link to the article, which is entitled: In chaotic Washington blitz, Elon Musk’s ultimate goal becomes clear

Here's the thing: AI is not ready for prime time and we all know it. There have been a variety of articles out there telling us this for some time. Here are a few, published last year:

12 famous AI disasters
A few of their examples:
ChatGPT hallucinates court cases
AI algorithms identify everything but COVID-19
Zillow wrote down millions, slashed workforce due to algorithmic home-buying disaster
McDonald’s ends AI experiment after drive-thru ordering blunders
Dataset trained Microsoft chatbot to spew racist tweets

32 times artificial intelligence got it catastrophically wrong
This article is particularly pertinent to why we cannot have AI operating the U.S. government:
Mass resignation due to discriminatory AI.
Yes, indeed, Dutch parliamentarians had to resign because a faulty algorithm. Even the prime minister had to resign over this one! The story is covered and has a link at the above Live Science link.
Other stories covered in this article:
Medical chatbot's harmful advice
AI sending people into wildfires

Here are some AI disasters covered by MIT Technology Review:
The 8 worst technology failures of 2024
Boeing Starliner
CrowdStrike outage
23andMe

----------------------------

My prediction: So now we see that Musk's real plan is to install AI in the federal government. This will not fly with anybody, not even his fellow republicans. When this gets known across the board, you're going to see a rapid turning away from Musk. I would say it will take something like 10-12 days for this to get the attention needed to boot this crazy asshole out of the WH. Keep in mind that for this to get traction, the disasters with AI will have to be known, publicized across the spectrum.

You never, ever, ever experiment with a technology on a large scale. That is what Musk is trying to do, and all the decision makers in business and government know you don't enact on a wide scale.

What you do it test market it. An example would be new product introductions. I was one of the marketing managers at McDonalds who helped roll out Chicken McNuggets. We test marketed it in NY, which many considered way, way too big of a market for a new product intro. Usually they test market in places like Peoria (thus the question always asked of a new product, "Will it Play in Peoria?" ) .

The product was a huge success, but never, ever would they have rolled it out across the U.S. in one shot.

In the AI drive-thru test, referred to in one of the above articles, McDonald's experimented with AI in only 100 drive-thrus. They pulled the test because it failed.

------------

This is what happens when you have a completely inept person like trump as the president. Too stupid to know you don't do something like roll out an unproven technology in the world's largest government. Then you have Musk, who is equally isolated about what really has to happen (he thinks you "just hire people" ), and you get a gigantic disaster like what we are seeing unfold right now.


https://wapo.st/3WRYJOQ

MrWowWow

(518 posts)
31. Has eLOONazi Raided USPS Yet?
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 12:49 AM
Sunday

It will go over like a tank of Mercury spilling in a lab, Fukushima, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl all combined. Ben Franklin (founded the USPS) will be rolling in his grave. Buckle up buttercup!
.

NJCher

(38,705 posts)
35. much to think about
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 11:56 AM
Sunday

In this video. I hope Poindexter Oglethorpe stops by to comment.

I wouldn't put it past Musk. It sounds like something he would do.

Thanks for this interesting contribution to the discussion.

intrepidity

(8,088 posts)
36. Ok, but
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:13 PM
Sunday

if the experiment fails, they have still managed to destroy the federal government, which is their wet dream.

That's probably exactly how he sold it to Trump, too. "Win-win!!"

intrepidity

(8,088 posts)
39. Dismantling the various agencies,
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 09:50 PM
Sunday

decimating the federal workforce, either by direct action or intimidation, removing regulations, corrupting the databases, I mean, all the things they seem to be doing under our noses. Basically, what is outlined in Project 2025; or as Norquist famously said, to shrink it until it can go down a bathtub drain.

It's easy to destroy things but so much harder to rebuild them.

NJCher

(38,705 posts)
40. there is a system
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 11:05 PM
Sunday

called the court system and it has largely forbidden them to do this.

Now they may decide to ignore these court decisions, but that's another topic.

So you're saying the government is destroyed, even when the court system is returning a volley against an illegal action?

Do you consider the court system destroyed?

What about the military? Is it destroyed?

NJCher

(38,705 posts)
42. It's really not optimism
Mon Feb 10, 2025, 12:03 AM
Yesterday

I just like it when people be specific and I think saying the federal government is destroyed when many functions are working leaves you no options if it were destroyed. What would you call it then?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Real Reason Vivek Ram...