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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDon't Lecture Me If I Believe The Election Was Stolen
It's not like it never happened before.
Bush v Gore - the Florida Supreme Court agreed to recount the counties in dispute. The US Supreme Court stopped the recount.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida
The 2004 election Bush v Kerry
Where Bush got an unexpected surge in votes in Ohio. Ballot tallies were routed from Ohio to a ware shed in Tennessee.
https://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2011/4239
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BootinUp
(50,799 posts)
autorank
(29,481 posts)
malaise
(292,235 posts)Rec. 
MayReasonRule
(4,008 posts)Doubt is my savior.
Thomas was the hero.
May reason rule.
malaise
(292,235 posts)They cheat so I wait to see how this time
MayReasonRule
(4,008 posts)It's the Nazi 3-Step.
Nazi or Nat-C no matter the name the abject depravity's always the same.
The only rule they have is not to have a rule for their selves, only for everyone else.
In group, out group.
For my friends everything... for my enemies the law.
This is indeed quite unfortunately that.
CoopersDad
(3,274 posts)...staged.
It would be so easy to have done and he's just the one to have done it.
Had it been real, he'd have shit his pants and been rolled up in a fetal position, not rising with a bloody fist.
malaise
(292,235 posts)Everything is a TV production for the KKKK.
Hopefully I’ll be alive to see proof. Some real fishy stuff continues.
ailsagirl
(24,287 posts)I'm amazed by how many people who staunchly insist it was a fair election. Friends of mine, etc.
Pacifist Patriot
(25,186 posts)Bullies are notorious cowards. I have an exceptionally hard time imagining he'd have maintained composure if he didn't know it was coming.
3catwoman3
(28,484 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(25,186 posts)
hadEnuf
(3,511 posts)Made sure the "lone wolf" bullshit sticks.
Meadowoak
(6,605 posts)And the kid was on the roof with a ladder he brought from home on the side of the small building, that secret service was using for it's command center, basically a 2 car garage. Secret service couldn't see his ladder, hear him walking around on the roof just a few feet from where they were sitting? I call bullshit.
usaf-vet
(7,742 posts)SEE the scene starting at 2:30- 3:30
Escape
(368 posts)Trump's response to an "assassination attempt" was 180 degrees from what his character and cowardice have demonstrated throughout his life.
I think the killing of the Trump supporter in the stands was an accident, but I have no idea what the kid on the roof thought he was being paid to do.
dchill
(42,660 posts)But he was probably just dumb and crazy.
Bettie
(19,219 posts)protectees just stand up after shots are fired.
They would have had him down and covered if there was any actual danger.
So, either they are terrible agents who don't know how to do their job or they knew he wasn't in any real danger.
Callie1979
(1,086 posts)Bettie
(19,219 posts)so incompetence is probably a possibility, but they did not really act as though he was in danger.
There were articles at the time about how they failed to react properly.
Figarosmom
(9,642 posts)The schools worst shot? Yeah right he was going to assassinate the ass?
Someone was told to hire the worst shot they could find. Tell who they hired he'd be paid after the deed was done, then make sure Secret Service kills the guy they hired. No money trail to follow nor anything else.
I looked and could find no funeral info on the rooftop shooter.h
hawkeye21
(313 posts)In an assassination attempt, Secret Service members leap onto the potential target and keep themselves between the target and the shooter. They do NOT pick up the target, hoist him in the air, and carry him out like Rudy at Notre Dame. The whole thing was staged, including the "bloody" ear. The facts make that abundantly clear. There's no need to speculate. The SS has NEVER reacted to a shooting attempt the way they did with the felon.
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)CoopersDad
(3,274 posts)You're giving them too much credit.
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)That this gang of nincompoops could have intentionally pulled something like that off, even if they wanted to.
rampartd
(3,577 posts)trump did not catch the bullet in his teeth, but used the same motion to break the stage blood on his unscarred ear.
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)And I used to wonder how garbage like InfoWars had an audience…
thinkingagain
(1,310 posts)They were trying to save America instead of they guy they were suppose to protect 😀
thinkingagain
(1,310 posts)They were really trying to save America instead of the one guy they were suppose to protect 😀
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)And Trump admitted musk tampered with the vote.
Are they dead yeet?
Another Plane crash Duffy was in Daytona ona 5 million dollar ride.
Irish_Dem
(79,372 posts)Ruthless, dangerous, vicious psychopaths like Putin, trump, musk.
All of them faced either prison, ruin, or both.
Sure.
cilla4progress
(26,487 posts)Also, check this report about bomb threats on election night
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/election-day-bomb-threats-overwhelmingly-targeted-democrat-leaning-rcna179006
Irish_Dem
(79,372 posts)
hlthe2b
(112,624 posts)I am trepidatious that we have zero clue what Elon Musk did, is capable of, is doing now, and could do in the future.
It is not an unreasonable fear, but I don't know what to do with it other than the seemingly impotent things we are doing now--calling our Congressional delegation, protesting in person when possible, signing petitions? Seems a bit like throwing a paper clip at a guy with a massive knife/gun.
gab13by13
(31,057 posts)According to my link, the hack was easy. I'm sure we have become more sophisticated in hacking since 2004.
hlthe2b
(112,624 posts)
mackdaddy
(1,934 posts)I am a Lifelong Democrat but a lot of shit went down in 2004.
The tech for the voting system visited the local BOE and suggested to them to just write the original count number on an innocous post card or post-it note and put it on the wall so they would be sure they got the 'correct' count. The assistant supervisor of elections (D) told me so I could report up the chain that this conversation happened. She later got fired for telling this happened.
Later I realized that this was at a minimum a conspiracy and suborning perjury in planning to falsify a recount.
We tried to after the recount was done to just her and I do a hand recount of a few smaller precincts. We were illegally barred from looking at them 'in case there was a lawsuit'.
She did get a job at another state agency for a few years until she got her state retirement.
Chemical Bill
(3,032 posts)raising the possibility of election fraud, I say "Just look at the 2016 recounts in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Oh, wait, Republicans fought 2016 recounts tooth and nail, and they made sure no statewide hand recounts were done."
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)Just cheats in public now with illegal maps.
sop
(17,286 posts)Pennsylvania" for Trump, "like in a landslide," won't lecture you.
Diamond_Dog
(39,646 posts)And just how did Asshole win every swing state?
That plus massive disenfranchisement. Yep.
OMGWTF
(5,000 posts)What ever happened to that guy who ran the online betting operation that people made money on betting who would win the election and whose house was raided by the FBI shortly thereafter?
Turbineguy
(39,794 posts)But that does not mean we catch them at it.
edhopper
(37,016 posts)but I don't discount it either.
allegorical oracle
(6,136 posts)refresh my memory. ** got 77,303,573 votes. Harris got 75,019,257. That's a difference of 2,284,316 votes. Her loss total is just short of the population of Houston, TX (2,319,119). One city (not even the largest city) worth of votes.
Callie1979
(1,086 posts)You only needed to win 3-4 of 6 depending on which ones.
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)gab13by13
(31,057 posts)Millions of Democratic voters were purged across the country, Mail in ballots in Blue districts were tossed because of signature verifications, bomb threats called in to blue voting sites, not enough voting machines in blue sites that caused 8 hour long voting lines among many more.
yellow dahlia
(4,281 posts)The whole point over the take over and the cheating on elections is connected.
They are going to make sure Dems never win another election.
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)I've been purged at least 4 times, and always got to vote in my new district. Until someone shows up and can't vote, they were likely purged properly.
In my rube red state, bomb threats resulted in polls staying open later. Not to mention there were 3 weeks of early voting and anyone can mail in a ballot.
We need a plan to win, that doesn't just criticize trump (though he deserves it), and doesn't rely on BS excuses when we loose.
gab13by13
(31,057 posts)I used to vote by mail, not any more. All a Magat election official has to do is say my signature doesn't match. He/she can then shit can my ballot and I will never know the difference, or he/she can inform me my ballot was pitched and give me a short period of time to come in and fill out a provisional ballot that most likely never gets counted.
Georgia purged enough legal voters to win the state.
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)We lost and purged voters ain't the reason.
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)True the vote, to disenfranchise voters but since you say it doesn’t work, it doesn’t matter?
Provisional ballots very rarely get counted
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)Purges are almost universally people who moved out of district, died or just don’t give a dang about voting anymore.
Botany
(76,248 posts)2004 a white Pediatrician who had lived in his own house for 20 + years showed up to vote
and had been removed from the voter rolls.
2008 a younger African American Woman showed up to vote at a precinct I was at
had been removed from voting even though she had voted in the 2006 election.
2012 an older African American Woman had been removed from voting rolls and was very
proud she worked @ The Ohio State University showed up to vote and had been removed from the
from the voting rolls and was told by a white person that (I think a member of the BOE ??) that
she hadn’t voted in 2006 so she was purged from the voter rolls. I got her to be able to vote
a regular ballot not a provisional one.
By 2016. Enough people had been purged from Ohio’s voter rolls that it was a done deal for
the GOP.
I have been there in the belly of the beast and seen “it” with my own eyes and heard “it” with
my own ears.
William Rehnquist made his bones stopping blacks and chicanos from registering to vote in
the early 1960s
No Republican candidate for POTUS has won election since 1956 w/out cheating or has been
the legacy of cheating. If you want I can name some of the things that happened.
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)Botany
(76,248 posts)Way to change the subject. 
You asked for one example and I gave you 3 but then you changed the subject to
LBJ running for Congress in 1946 (?).
khoroshaya rabota!
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)Botany
(76,248 posts)Botany =
Callie1979
(1,086 posts)Or not being allowed to vote provisional.
I saw many challenges before the election and almost all were denied.
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)Callie1979
(1,086 posts)Not for more than one cycle. So while I HATE HATE HATE the outcome; it didnt surprise me. All of them were in the margin of error but they showed fatass with the lead. We had record turnout in GA, I dont know about other states. SOMEONE could put up the money to examine ballots if they're so sure fraud existed. The printed ballots would tally different if the machines were hacked.
Harris had little time to run a campaign so her back was against the wall from the jump. I put that on Biden.
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)But no money to hand count the ballots
It will always be, best hacker wins
Callie1979
(1,086 posts)The reason I thought the election was lost long before the election were the people around me who I KNEW were voting for trump. People who one would think would NEVER. People like a young woman with 2 mixed race kids. An MD with multiple specialties. More than one good lawyer. A former city attorney. A black man who once ran for Council as a DEMOCRAT. Its a long list of people that just shouldve known better.
When I saw these people openly touting their support I knew we were in big trouble
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)Or as stalin said, “ who votes doesn’t matter , who counts the vote matters “
To pretend it’s correct or right for citizens to have to do fund raising to pay for the privilege of overseeing elections makes putin happy
Callie1979
(1,086 posts)Because doing a recount outside those rules means you pay for it. We have people with plenty of money to have done it without "fundraising".
My point is & has been, WHY does everyone think it was "stolen" when Harris was NEVER shown winning the election in ANY poll at election time? I kept waiting for the numbers to change. They never did. They were always within the margin of error with trump on top. And thats how it ended. But anytime I suggested it wasnt looking good people slammed me. Now we want to claim ":stolen" instead of accepting the "whys" of the loss.
usonian
(23,289 posts)Here are the numbers...
by Greg Palast for the Hartmann Report January 24, 2025
https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won.
Hartmann:
https://hartmannreport.com/p/0ef5118a-d23b-4842-8ebc-da9b578f73fc
SHORT:
And, if not for the mass purge of voters of color, if not for the mass disqualification of provisional and mail-in ballots, if not for the new mass “vigilante” challenges in swing states, Harris would have gained at least another 3,565,000 votes, topping Trump’s official popular vote tally by 1.2 million.
Stay with me and I’ll give you the means, methods and, most important, the key calculations.
But if you’re expecting a sexy story about Elon Musk messing with vote-counting software from outer space, sorry, you won’t get that here. As in Bush v. Gore in 2000, and in too many other miscarriages of Democracy, this election was determined by good old “vote suppression,” the polite term we use for shafting people of color out of their ballot. We used to call it Jim Crow.
They're not original thinkers. Jim Crow must go.
Clouds Passing
(6,838 posts)Silent Type
(12,412 posts)McKim
(2,426 posts)Remember back in Bush v. Gore days, these Rs are "driving it like they stole it", as we used to say and it is still true today.
bluestarone
(21,057 posts)I just wish someone in a toss up state that we KNOW we can do a check recount, would DO IT, if nothing else get ready for 2026. We have to know for sure. What would be wrong with this? I know we cannot do anything about the last election BUT we have to know for sure! Don't we?
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)Posted by hucksters on the internet.
chowder66
(11,760 posts)questionseverything
(11,525 posts)Or all the electronic devices refusing to work in Apache, Nevada
So who knows
Clouds Passing
(6,838 posts)
Hope22
(4,420 posts)That $hit happens time and again! Yes stolen elections! And how many years did we wait to hear Iraq was a sham! It’s really hard watching this stuff year after!
gab13by13
(31,057 posts)that Gore wins the recount.
Hope22
(4,420 posts)ElementaryPenguin
(7,902 posts)The legal "overvotes" - where voters (often first time voters) both selected their candidate and also wrote their name in the "write-in candidate" space - which is a perfectly legal vote in Florida - and some 3/4's of those went to Gore. No question the Supreme Court got wind of how those hand recounts were going and moved to stop it. Outrageous!!! And we were forced to accept it.
markodochartaigh
(4,904 posts)the thousands of mostly African American voters kicked off the roles by the company hired by the Republican party.
Blue Full Moon
(3,111 posts)Bush had ran his mouth about yellow cake in Cincinnati. I had just read several articles in science magazines about that very thing. Disproved his stance completely. Since Ohio had 2 republican senators, contacted West Virginia senators Byrd and Rockefeller about it.
Hope22
(4,420 posts)I feel like we can’t quit but boy am I full up on it! Remembering when they ran the Ohio votes through the RNC server. KKKArl Rove and the bull with our black box voting. Memory lane.
Blue Full Moon
(3,111 posts)58Sunliner
(6,273 posts)
JCMach1
(29,073 posts)We KNOW the techno fascists were on that the last 3 elections.
PittBlue
(4,698 posts)
OldBaldy1701E
(9,991 posts)And, it did. Sometimes it took a long time to find out, but it still happened.
I am still on the fence about it, but I would never contradict anyone who said it was.
Bluetus
(2,188 posts)Trump boasted of having plenty of votes at a time when that was not indicated in any polls and would have been a ridiculous thing to say if he didn't have some reason for believing he could swing the results his way. Beyond that, he then went into some depth talking about how Elon Musk had become the master of "vote counting computers". That's essentially a confession that they were going to manipulate the vote through the tabulation process.
Perhaps that was just bravado on Trump's part. But it seems that at minimum, we should have proper audits of the vote counting computers to see if what Trump said is actually true.
Deep State Witch
(12,535 posts)You mean to tell me that the guy who cheated in 2016 and 2020 didn't cheat this time? Besides, these are Republicans! Election chicanery is in their DNA - ever since Nixon! They can't help themselves.
My guess is that between voter suppression and Musk and his brogrammers, they somehow messed with the tallies.
LizBeth
(11,222 posts)different than what the board wants to project.
Ponietz
(4,226 posts)Believe what you will.
LizBeth
(11,222 posts)yet this board demands we all pretend it was not
gab13by13
(31,057 posts)The problem happens when I am told that my opinion is out of place, I am told that I am spreading conspiracy theories.
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)Or pointing out that someone is spreading conspiracy theories.
Ms. Toad
(38,093 posts)
radical noodle
(10,467 posts) 
Abraham Slender
(1 post)chicken dinner
GP6971
(37,557 posts)LizBeth
(11,222 posts)what we believe, lol. Sorry this was not clear. Working
quakerboy
(14,696 posts)Trump openly bragged about it, so why would I not believe him?
Blue Full Moon
(3,111 posts)Any device can be hacked.
EdmondDantes_
(1,311 posts)The size of his inaugural crowd, the state of the economy, that he won the 2020 election, his charitable donations, Mexico was going to pay for the boarder wall, how much boarder wall his administration built, etc. He lies incessantly.
The_REAL_Ecumenist
(928 posts)which were traced back to RUSSIAN IP's...the BULLET BALLOTS, The state races where the ONLY vote for a republican was 4 trump but the rest were blue? FUCK NO, you are NOT delusional. NOT...AT...ALL!
Vinca
(53,220 posts)EdmondDantes_
(1,311 posts)Even the guy who brought it up admitted he was wrong.
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)from the election denial folks.
Dynamic Unicorn
(27 posts)Can you please share a link for this?
Thank you.
ancianita
(42,763 posts)It either looks pretty shady, or the voters are stupid and lazy.
Dynamic Unicorn
(27 posts)Great link. I need to look at previous election totals in down ballot races compared to the presidential, but at first glance there is certainly some interesting data here.
Thanks again!
ancianita
(42,763 posts) Blue Full Moon
(3,111 posts)Michael Connell was chief IT consultant to Karl Rove. He did IT work for both Bush and McCain. He was deposed about his actions during 2004 vote count in Ohio and his access to Karl Rove's email and how they went missing. He was set to testify to congress but died in an plane crash.
gab13by13
(31,057 posts)Dead men don't tell tales.
Blue Full Moon
(3,111 posts)
suegeo
(3,097 posts)GovTech is one of three firms involved in “mirroring” votes for the 2004 presidential election in Ohio. Connell was set to testify in a lawsuit alleging computer fraud bought against Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell by voters’ rights groups.
The man who will now forever be known as “Karl Rove’s IT guru” was an experienced pilot who allegedly had been warned not to fly the plane because it might be sabotaged.
The GOP steals elections.
Trump worked with Russia to steal 2016.
Donald Trump is a convicted felon. And he's a rapist.
Blue Full Moon
(3,111 posts)Triad a voter registration software provider in Ohio, a subsidiary of Diebold. Went into Highland County Board of Elections and changed votes in the voting machines. The people there found out and filed a lawsuit. Bush put a gag order on the court's order.
Bengus81
(9,758 posts)Trump would have NEVER won by a lousy 2.2M votes. He would have made damn fucking sure he won by more--much MORE than Biden beat him by. The win over Harris would have been in the 10M range. We all know that with that POS fascist everything is about numbers and Trump always claims he has the largest amount.
Harris received 7or 8 percent less of the women's vote than Biden. Why the hell is that I don't know but it was enough.
Hope22
(4,420 posts)TSF’s call….just one more than I need! Never big numbers on the steal. Hence the slime margins of the final # a slim 1.5% up on the popular vote. It wasn’t a landslide. Not even50% of the voters…..
Bengus81
(9,758 posts)Easy peasy, loved by all and up against an old ass man in Biden. So...no need to rig anything. The attempted rigging came around 1 or 2 am the next morning when a fucking SHOCKED Trump knew his ass was grass. He was behind and very few mail in's had been counted.
So yeah..he THEN decided to try and RIG the outcome by first saying to stop the vote counting. Later a slew of laughable lawsuits and the call to Raffensperger. At that point days/weeks later what was he going to ask for when he called, seven million votes?? LOL...
Hope22
(4,420 posts)
BlueTsunami2018
(4,826 posts)Of course if he got to choose he’d have a Saddam Hussein 98% victory, because he’s a fucking idiot. The P25 people around him aren’t stupid, they’re evil. Anyone with sense would do it just the way it turned out. Wins just big enough to stay out of automatic recount territory while maintaining the idea of a very close, divided nation.
Expect this to be the norm in the future. They’ll squeak out every close race and we’ll still have the illusion of legitimate elections as we slide into to the Orban model of permanent minority rule.
EdmondDantes_
(1,311 posts)Seems like it would have been easy to give more than a literal handful majority in the House. Reward Kari Lake in Arizona. Just because you say anyone with any sense would do something doesn't actually make it so.
hadEnuf
(3,511 posts)Just look at the way Musk is barging in and shuttering government agencies with his band of hackers. Does that not come across as someone who has complete control of the processes? Does that sound like someone who has a shred of respect for election fairness and integrity?
We are deluding ourselves if we think the 2024 election was fair and not manipulated.
Metaphorical
(2,584 posts)Trump would have wanted a blowout, his ego required it, but what I'm seeing makes me suspect strongly that they (Heritage Foundation, Thiel, Musk, fill in the blank) still overestimated his support. This was a multipronged approach - massive disinformation campaign, massive corporate media involvement, no doubt a lot of dark money going into shell corporations primarily for purposes of getting him over the finish line, and Trump still only squeaked by.
The oligarchy does not want to be regulated. They don't want to be told what they can and cannot do, they do not want to pay taxes, they want to create a new government completely within their control. Were they going to do everything they can to "cheat"? Hell yes. A tabulator is still a computer - it needs to be programmed, and it needs to communicate with the external world in some fashion. I design information systems for a living, have been staying close to voting machine design for a long time, and I know how vulnerable most of them are. Many of them have blutooth connections, and most are not properly encrypted for authentication (furthermore, the people who maintain them usually aren't themselves all that computer savvy). It's one of the reasons I think that all votes should be hand-tabulated after the fact to verify the count.
flamingdem
(40,780 posts)Musk's son knows more than we do..
Meowmee
(9,212 posts)I said here after the election – “what are you so afraid of , are you more afraid of appearances than you are letting that psycho take power again? “ imo the Election software etc. should’ve been investigated and in my opinion there should be a software investigation, etc. done on every election, that and full recounts should be part of the budget for the elections. As should all of the factors that we know about with voter suppression
stillcool
(34,407 posts)and it's what we do. Sit by and watch, and believe what we're told, regardless. It's quite pathetic when common thinkers need to shut the eff up because it disturbs a version of Americana that for many of us, never existed. We're so far beyond the ability to ensure any free and fair federal election, it's almost melancholic to think of such an idea.
Celerity
(53,548 posts)
wiggs
(8,654 posts)putting their fortunes to work ensuring further concentration of wealth and power.
Mere US elections cannot stand in the way of an expensive 50 year plan when they are *this* close to new world order.
AllaN01Bear
(28,476 posts)
Eliot Rosewater
(34,282 posts)Dynamic Unicorn
(27 posts)Has he ever provided any links or proof to verify the claims that he made? Until I see proof that support the claims, it is hard to support Palast. We have to be better than the election deniers of 2020. To claim that Trump cheated in 2016, 2020, and 2024 is a bold claim. He lost 2020, and almost every state shifted red in 2024 including democrat controlled ones. With the varying way the states conduct elections and how decentralized the process is, I will need to see some proof or evidence before I can move forward with the election fraud claim.
We need to accept that we lost, and understand why, if we are to retake the house and senate in 26.
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)If you’re familiar with his work you should know that
Dynamic Unicorn
(27 posts)I do not see any cited sources for his "key numbers" claims. I am open to seeing the raw data to support these claims, but until it is presented this looks more like a conspiracy theory instead of an objective review of the data.
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)Bbc, the guardian, published in Rolling stone and any magazine with real chops
Read his wiki
Dynamic Unicorn
(27 posts)I am saying that he does not provide any evidence or sources for his claims on the 2024 election. These claims are very specific and due to their nature should be verifiable. So far, I have not seen any data to support the claims and when challenged, no one seems to be able to support the claims made.
Again, until source data is provided, these claims are suspect when viewed through an objective lens.
Pepsidog
(6,353 posts)As I left the polling place I saw the longest line I have ever seen to vote in my district. As I walked to my car with my wife, 2 daughters , and one of my sons, I looked at the people in the line and said “that’s scary, looks like a ton of Trumpers waiting”. Leading up to the election, like 2016,when I spoke to people about the election it was mostly, to my horror, people saying their voting for Trump. So while I really want to believe the election was stolen, my eyes and ears told me otherwise. Definitely massive voter suppression of Dems as usual. Let’s see if any private audits come out of swing states.
John1956PA
(4,734 posts)That cash also paid for runners to stake them into the ground and otherwise distribute them. I think the cash came from Russian sources. Yard signs in Western Pennsylvania cause a bandwagon voting effect, especially when they include lies such as "Harris: War. Trump: Peace."
Most people I heard speaking about politics before the election favored Trump. In the November 2024 election, Pennsylvania saw a greater total number of votes cast for presidential candidates than in 2020. Trump won the state by about 120,000 votes. As an aside, I will mention that for for the entire ten months preceding the November 2024 election, the increase in registered party affiliations among Pennsylvania voters favored the Republicans.
In my local county, over 70,000 total votes for president were cast. Trump's margin of victory in the county was about 20,000 votes. The county's tally, pricinct by pricinct, was announced on election night. If there was chicanery with the vote tally, it would have to have been programmed into the optical reading machines at the individual precincts. I have no evidence to suggest that such chicanery occured.
Here in Western Pennsylvania, I think it was a case of low-information voters being swayed by yard signs, media advertising blitzes, and RW/Putin social media.
GreenWave
(12,211 posts)tritsofme
(19,766 posts)pnwmom
(110,176 posts)She should have called for recounts in the handful of states with the most curious counts.
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)States like Michigan have wonderful Democratic officials in charge up and down the board, do people really think they just sat back and let the election be “stolen”?
These conspiracies theories really are ridiculous.
pnwmom
(110,176 posts)causing people to desert the buildings.
And I know serious questions have been raised by professors in computer science across the country, which could have been answered if at least a few states did a hand recount.
Following the 2020 election, operatives working with Trump attorneys accessed voting equipment in order to gain copies of the software that records and counts votes. The letter to Vice President Harris argues that this extraordinary and unprecedented breach in election system security merits conducting recounts of paper ballots in order to confirm computer-generated tallies. The letter also highlights the fact that the post-election audits in many key states will be conducted after certification and after the window to seek recounts closes, and that therefore recounts should be sought promptly.
The letter states: “Possessing copies of the voting system software enables bad actors to install it on electronic devices and to create their own working replicas of the voting systems, probe them, and develop exploits. Skilled adversaries can decompile the software to get a version of the source code, study it for vulnerabilities, and could even develop malware designed to be installed with minimal physical access to the voting equipment by unskilled accomplices to manipulate the vote counts. Attacks could also be launched by compromising the vendors responsible for programming systems before elections, enabling large-scale distribution of malware.”
“In December 2022 and again in 2023, many of us, concerned by the security risks posed by these breaches, wrote to the Attorney General, FBI Director, and Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Director outlining the security concerns and urging an investigation. Though there have been limited, localized investigations, there is no evidence of a federal investigation to determine what was done with the misappropriated voting software.”
The letter is signed by Professor Duncan Buell, Ph.D., Chair Emeritus — NCR Chair in Computer Science and Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering, University of South Carolina*; David Jefferson Ph.D., Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory* (retired), Election Integrity Foundation*; Susan Greenhalgh, Senior Advisor for Election Security, Free Speech For People; Chris Klaus, Chief Executive Officer, Fusen World*; William John Malik, Malik Consulting, LLC*; Marilyn R. Marks, Executive Director, Coalition for Good Governance; Peter G. Neumann Ph.D., Chief Scientist, SRI International Computer Science Lab*; and Professor John E. Savage, Ph.D, An Wang Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, Brown University*.
neohippie
(1,254 posts)Sure we can believe, speculate, discuss but unless someone can find actual evidence this is all really nothing more than a mental exercise in futility and we are no better than the people that we used to question from the other side
KPN
(17,117 posts)even look, investigate further, etc, If it was stolen — and I lean strongly to believing it was based on every swing State going to Mump — there is proof.
We trusted the count in every single swing State without a single peep. Could DOJ have looked into that? Did they?
neohippie
(1,254 posts)I haven't seen any proof just a lot of people thinking that it had to be a stolen election and a lot of ideas but no proof
If you have proof please share it but the YouTube videos that state that the win was statistically improbable , and the bullet ballot theories none of that is proof its all speculation without evidence that can withstand scrutiny
KPN
(17,117 posts)cilla4progress
(26,487 posts)At the very least, it should have been thoroughly investigated and a report provided to the public.
If only to shut down these nagging concerns!
annielion
(85 posts)Musk said in October at a town hall in Pennsylvania, "The last thing I would do is trust a computer program because it's just too easy to hack. It's just too easy to add one line." Good research by Smart Elections.Us
Jose Garcia
(3,416 posts)alarimer
(17,146 posts)Let's not be like them. 2020 wasn't stolen, neither was this one. It hurts because the truth is worse than the delusion that it was stolen.
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)If they stole 200, 2004, 2016, and 2024.....why didn't they steal 2008, 2012, and 2020?
IbogaProject
(5,564 posts)Some how they can nudge the "totals" but not move them beyond a small margin. So 2008, 2012, & 2020, may have been too big to flip.
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)That's the same thing the Republicans say
questionseverything
(11,525 posts)Hillary looked into recounting Wisconsin but most of the northeast corner of the state didn’t have paper to count……
reACTIONary
(6,950 posts)... Yep, YMOTS - yet more of this shit.
BlueKota
(5,034 posts)Given what he said about Eloon knowing computers that wouldn't surprise me.
Greybnk48
(10,659 posts)they can hack into the voting system. I read that one of the Berkeley goons won a prize for a voting machine hack. And Trump was not worried about losing this one at all. He even said at a rally he didn't need more votes.
HappyH
(161 posts)where the DOGE boy won a contest hacking a voting machine. The contest was sponsored by Elon Musk.
I sorta think Elon’s app that he bragged about, the one that gave him election results hours before the election was called, might have something to do with the results.
Lunabell
(7,309 posts)I don't know how because I'm not a programmer or whatever computer ability you need, but they did. They did. They did. They did!
mokeyz
(97 posts)was the owner of the voting machines in ohio and i think Pennsylvania.
I was a poll watcher in Colorado for the 2004 election and we were given instructions about how to handle the right wing assholes who were trying to keep people from voting.
Good time - NOT
tritsofme
(19,766 posts)
TheProle
(3,892 posts)
mvd
(65,826 posts)Maybe in my lifetime the story will come out. They hid it well if they did it since our lawyers didn’t get involved. But too much about Trump and his actions since scream stolen election.
Progressive dog
(7,566 posts)provide the evidence that the election was stolen. Lots of actual investigators haven't found it.
Trump shouldn't be in office because he's a convicted felon and is shitting on the Constitution, along with his boss Elon.
Susan Calvin
(2,395 posts)I think Trump straight up admitted it.
4catsmom
(667 posts)third stolen election in my lifetime. Presidential elections in America can be stolen easily due to the electoral college. Time to abolish it.
keepthemhonestO
(628 posts)Check that out of course no one will ever let us count so we'll never be able to verify.
Hand count the ballots
krawhitham
(5,052 posts)If you can't beat them, join them I guess
Sucha NastyWoman
(3,018 posts)Is possible there is something we don’t know. I’m just not a believer AT THIS TIME.
flashman13
(1,962 posts)For a long time I tried to convince myself that Harris lost because 170 million Americans are just stupid. But I'm a numbers freak and as more information on voting numbers and patterns has been published, the harder it has become to believe that simple stupidity is to blame.
Without having to resort to any fancy math, here is a simple test. We are told that we are a very polarized society divided close to 50/50. That is the country as a whole, with some states red and others blue. Then they are the 7 swing states. As states they are very nearly divided 50/50. Hence, the name "swing"; may go either way. On election day all 7 went for Trump with margins outside of the automatic recount threshold. You would expect a 4 to 3 split. Flip a nickle 7 times. You will very probably get a 3 to 4 split. On occasion, the odds are low, you might get a 5 to 2 split. The chances of getting a 7 to 0 split are real close to zero. The only way Trump could have won all 7 states was if he was using a coin with his orange mug on both sides. Also, a recent study of key swing counties shows that almost all of them broke for Trump. Statistically speaking that is pretty much not going to happen. The election was stolen.
HowSpecialIsThis
(14 posts)few of them showing up for this topic
SnoopDog
(2,695 posts)That's 3,145,101 LESS voters for 2024. The most important election in our history and less people voted?
Of course the election was stolen. It was stolen thru voter suppression.
Trump is an illegitimate president.
Source: FEC.gov Google: "2024 presidential popular vote count" and select the fec.gov PDFs
Polybius
(21,394 posts)2020 doesn't count, it was during a pandemic. A huge emphasis was placed on mail-in voting, bringing in many people who have never before voted. In 2024, there was much less of an urge to use mail-ins. Many counties and states removed that option, so a ton of 2020-only voters couldn't be bothered to vote again because it was "too much work" this time.
Republicans also hurt themselves badly in 2020 by telling their voters to not vote early, and to only vote in-person on Election Day. Well, if they had Covid, they stood home. Republicans did not make the same mistake in 2024.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)States increased early voting hours to accommodate social distancing. Accommodations were all over the local news. They all also increased access to Vote by Mail. Once again this was all in the media. Our county commissioners were constantly in the news. (Along with our daily Covid report)
Local officials were so worried that Covid would lead to decreased turnout that they went out of their way to increase access to voting and they turned to the media big time. Hey even Abbott got involved! He signed executive orders to add a week to early voting. He allowed mail ballots to be turned in earlier. He allowed counties to send applications to those over 65. Even Abbott was afraid of getting sued.
Also voters were less busy in 2020 due to Covid restrictions.
SnoopDog
(2,695 posts)Republicans suppressed the voter turnout….
Figarosmom
(9,642 posts)Bonx
(2,353 posts)It's just so obvious.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,102 posts)
bullimiami
(14,071 posts)
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,497 posts)
Blue Owl
(58,119 posts)By all manner of cheating -- gerrymandering, vote suppression, ballot tampering, vote total flipping -- it's a myriad of mayhem.
And now they're rigging the game to ensure they 'win' again every future goddamned election.
I'm sick of these lying, cheating, corrupt fuckers rigging the game.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,102 posts) The GOP has stolen elections in the two elections you mention (2000 and 2004). Then there was the behind the scenes theft from Jimmy Carter with backroom deals with Iran for hostages. Then there was the behind the scenes theft from LBJ when Nixon's backroom deals with Vietnamese during LBJ administration which disrupted LBJ's peace talks in Vietnam. The GOP are always stealing elections. 2024 was no different.
c-rational
(3,126 posts)like traitors against Dems. My concern now it the creation of enough anxiety to call for martial law or a manufactured incident. May you live in interesting times...never wanted that to be applicable to me. They told us they had the votes...why shouldn't we believe them.
ananda
(34,305 posts)I've thought the election was stolen for a good while now.
spanone
(140,917 posts)
FHRRK
(1,354 posts)I often post the scene from Animal House where Belushi goes off and says the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. Our purity police pukes want to focus on any error, no matter how small, to tap down others, rather than using the emotion of others to further the cause.
FUCK THEM!
V850i
(118 posts)Democrats in general should have said, sure if you think there was fraud, let's look into it. File your legal challenges and we can look into it in Congress as well. By calling anyone who had any doubts about the 2020 election, election deniers it makes it hard for Democrats to say the same thing if they believe an election was fraudulent. As Ohio shows it is not always something you can get all the facts about in time to have any legal remedy to the election itself.
annielion
(85 posts)Before the election Elon said we should be hand counting paper ballots. He said "It's just so easy to change one line" (of a computer program). Then he programmed the tabulators to massively steal the election for Trump. Now he's stealing our government. Those who believe in the total safety of our votes never wrote a computer program.
red dog 1
(32,346 posts)red dog 1
(32,346 posts)This time Trump sold his presidency to the richest, and most dangerous, man on Planet Earth -- aside from Putin with nukes."
https://www.mind-war.com/p/ken-we-ken
totodeinhere
(13,686 posts)That seems very implausible to me.
red dog 1
(32,346 posts)1) The Reagan campaign was afraid of an "October Surprise," namely, that the Iranian hostages might be freed that month, thus helping President Carter likely winning easily over Reagan.
(The Iranians were allegedly ready to release the hostages anyway, having held them for more than a year by that time)
William Casey allegedly committed treason by A) meeting with Iranian arms dealer Cyrus Hashemi in Madrid to delay the release of the hostages and B) a final meeting in Paris to finalize the deal, and C) that there were shipments of America- made arms from Israel to Iran. [Frontline, NPR, "October Surprise"]
2) Casey allegedly arranged for White House CIA agent Donald Gregg to break into President Carter's office and copy Carter's top-secret briefing papers for his 2nd debate with Reagan (More treason)
George Will allegedly used the stolen briefing papers to "coach" Reagan before the debate so that Reagan actually knew what Carter was going to say in the 2nd debate before the debate (Reagan did poorly in his 1st debate with Carter, because he was such an idiot)
"Well, there you go again." Remember that? (From the 2nd debate)
If these allegations were true, (and many believe they were true, including retired Navy Captain and member of the National Security council Gary Sick), Casey, Gregg and all the other Reagan-Bush campaign officials should have been charged with treason
So, yeah, I guess you're right, that bonehead Reagan did win re-election in 1984, but he never should have become POTUS in the first place.
He defeated Jimmy Carter only because of treasonous acts committed by William Casey, Donald Gregg et.al. in 1980.
[Google "Debate-Gate"]
totodeinhere
(13,686 posts)I don't think he had to cheat in 1984.
red dog 1
(32,346 posts)But Jim Stewartson's quote (the link I posted in reply # 156) remains true:
"Every Republican since Nixon was elected by cheating. All of them. This time was no different."
Reagan WAS elected by cheating...in 1980.
red dog 1
(32,346 posts)Mondale didn't win a single state west of the Mississippi, Hart won all the states west of the Mississippi.
Mondale and Hart each won 26 states.
Mondale won 38.3% of the vote, and Hart won 35.9% of the vote
So, Mondale's lead over Hart going into the 1984 Democratic Convention in San Francisco was less than 3%.
The Democratic Party was a divided party, between Mondale supporters and Hart supporters (who were mostly young voters)
If Mondale had selected Gary Hart as his running mate instead of Geraldine Ferraro, he would have essentially "united" the two factions and a united Democratic Party might well have defeated then-President Reagan in November.
So, Reagan getting 62% of the vote in the general election was likely the result of a divided Democratic Party.
Polybius
(21,394 posts)1960 too, but I don't believe it.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)The election results from the Valley favored Johnson by statistically improbable amounts, with Duval County reporting 4,195 votes for Johnson and only 38 for Stevenson.[77] In addition to lopsided totals in Jim Wells and Duval counties, Parr's influence in Jim Hogg County was estimated to have delivered Johnson over 1,000 additional votes.[68]: 605
Mangan was able to corroborate the story with Luis Salas, who worked as an election judge in South Texas. Salas told Mangan that the powerful South Texas political boss George B. Parr ordered that some 200 votes be added to the totals for Box 13. Salas said he then watched as the names of individuals who had not voted were added to the tally sheet.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_13_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_United_States_Senate_election_in_Texas
However, we have so many checks and balances these days that it would be next to impossible for something like this to happen. Also primaries were poorly regulated back then.
karin_sj
(1,306 posts)I know in my heart that this election was stolen, and many many people I know feel the same way. There is a subreddit called somethingiswrong2024 where experts and others have posted some of the anomalies that have occurred and other items of interest. Many of the statisticians who have studied the results say that the chances of him winning all the swing states the way he did is close to nil. The hope that something will be done to turn things around is fading though.
https://www.reddit.com/r/somethingiswrong2024/
R0ckyRac00n
(115 posts)-then we are lost for sure. I guess we had a good run.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,325 posts)Or monkeywrenched in those assholes favor, these money poured into these fuckers was insane
lark
(25,854 posts)They think tsf won fair and square, I don't!! It's too big of a change and he even was bragging about how good eloon is with voting machines.
Not that it matter one damn bit, the fascists are in charge - whether it be tsf or eloon they both are doing Pooty's orders to destroy our country while they personally enchance their already (iespecially n eloons case) considerably great wealth by stealing it from us.
Even Judge Chutkan seems to have fallen under the spell of "let him be king". I fear we have zero hope, no one is going to save us. Even if tsf dies, which wouldn't be surprising one bit, Vance will just take his place, still to be steered by eloon and his boss Pooty with the same end goal - destruction of our country so Russia is #1.
OnionPatch
(6,309 posts)Anyone who thinks they wouldn't do it is naive. If they had a way to do it, I absolutely believe they did.
lees1975
(6,888 posts)Of course they figured out how to steal this one. And Democrats mostly sat on their hands and because of the defense they had claimed that the 2020 election wasn't stolen, were forced into silence on this one.
Kid Berwyn
(22,722 posts)
1968 - Nixon-Agnew dealt with North Vietnam to sabotage Paris peace talks
1980 - Reagan-Bush dealt with Ayatollah hostage takers
1988 - Bush pardons Weinberger and other Iran-Contra traitors to avoid trial and exposing his own role
2000 - Bush-Cheney count on GOP-leaning Supreme Court to “win” Florida and, thus, US election
2016 - Trump calls on Russia for help to defeat Hillary Clinton
The record is clear: In Presidential election after Presidential election, Republicans get away with treason.
And after they “win,” We the People are told to, “Move on.” And the GOP gets away with it, again.
And now Musk and Project 2025 dismantle democracy and kick-off a fascist era in the USA. I will do all I can to make it as short-lived as necessary.
PennRalphie
(448 posts)I’m sure it didn’t have to do with him holding rallies and running ads about what he would do. Meanwhile, Kamala Harris did not run a single ad or gave a speech touting the great economy President Biden built. Instead, her ads were I know the economy is bad. We have to fix it. No plan. Something about joy. Having Singers and actors didn’t add any votes either.
So how was PA stolen? Did Governor Shapiro sit back and allow this to happen? Oh wait, I know. Fetterman was in on it.
In 2026 and 2028, the Democratic Party needs to tell American how messed up things are, and specifically how they’ll fix things.
I sure hope we don’t settle on, the last election was stolen.
Martin68
(26,940 posts)onenote
(45,965 posts)This is a discussion board. If you post something, folks can and will discuss it -- and that includes criticizing the substance of the post. This isn't X/Twitter, where one isn't allowed to criticize elon musk.
You have a right to post whatever you want. And everyone else has a right to comment on your posts, both positively and negatively.
For the record, my belief is that your belief is fantasy.