I'm fighting most of my siblings. TSF has destroyed most families in this country. Hope youget through this.

He was MAGA but passed before the election. He was a Cold War vet who worked on nuclear subs. To hear him make excuses for the recent policy towards Russia (after all the anti Russia rants he spewed) would have sent my blood pressure thru the roof.

other sovereign nations? He must be 98-99 years old?

He was born in 1943.

He says we need to do it for national security reasons.

Repugnants want a southern border wall to stop climate refugees, to seize Greenland and annex Canada, and close ties to Russia so they can tell the rest of the world to fuck off.

They're idiots. Replicating fertile US farmland in most of Canada will take tens of thousands, perhaps millions of years. Most of Canada is taiga and muskeg. Soils are exceedingly thin over the shield. There's a very good reason why most Canadians live in that narrow strip in the south and it's not all about temperature. That's where you can actually grow things. We have a piece of that strip just north of us in Quebec. Productive farmland south of the St. Lawrence. But go north of the St. Lawrence for any significant distance and forget it.

They're not interested in facts.

Also, I think it's the shipping lanes that Putin is after.

..., so he seems to want to cement his "legacy" with something like the acquisition of Alaska, the Louisiana Purchase, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the Gadsden Purchase, etc. This aligns with his admiration of Putin (and Xi and other such leaders). Putin seems to want to reconstitute the former Soviet Union's territory as a new, larger Russia. Trump possibly thinks that he might as well do the same: let those other countries just try and stop him. Why else declare that the Gulf of Mexico is the "Gulf of America"? In a sense, that was his annexation of that body of water. That was a test case that went well save for the resistance of the AP.

Sure, he can claim that all of this disruption and betrayal is for US national security reasons, but we already have agreements with Denmark, Greenland, Canada, and NATO countries that should serve all of those purposes: all that defending US national interests would take is for the US being a true friend and ally to those countries, but Trump is working as hard as he can to destroy all the US's international alliances, so being a good friend and ally is apparently not part of his plan.

That is not surprising, though, as everything is always all about him. How many businesses has he destroyed? bankrupted? not paid? He is loyal to nothing and no one except himself. His highest aspiration is his own self-aggrandizement. So, in attempting to make his "legacy" immortal, he will likely destroy the reputation of the US (if not the US) just as he has destroyed everything which he has led throughout his life.

Anyway, that is one possible answer to what may well be a rhetorical question, but I will close this comment with a hearty curse upon Merrick Garland, for he is the one without whose gentle action the US would not be in this situation.

He also is maga. Impossible to reason with because I have a very low tolerance for conflict and he is entrenched in whatever counter-reality FAUX is spewing. The simpler the better. He is not interested in hearing the facts, no matter how diplomatically they are presented. And now, with age, his ability to absorb new ideas is even more limited. So....he is a basically nice person, believe it or not, so we just avoid politics. Not ideal, but at least we still have a relationship. So sorry that your situation is beyond even that, it sounds like.

I work with them. Simplistic black and white thinkers. Generally nice and sympathetic, as long as they're not uncomfortable. But man - you have a neuro- divergent self- medicating adult child - cut them off.
"They're losers and freeloaders."
And you were a loser because you were being too nice trying to help them - and your grandkids you should've raising for them
Because you're giving those slackers something for free, and the co-worker didn't grow up getting anything for free.

Likewise, those undocumented people. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants didn't break the law coming over, so undocumented immigrants or people fleeing for asylum just need to be sent back and go through the system - and if they're afraid to, or we don't accept them through the system, they must have something to hide.

Very simplistic, very dismissive, very "tough love" - and typically rather privileged. It's easy to "just take responsibility for your screw-ups and don't ask for help if it's your fault" if you're in a comfortable place in life.

They don't believe in mercy or compassion for it's own sake, because they honestly don't believe bad things will ever happen to them, or they might find themselves in the position of a homeless family without resources or a migrant fleeing destruction, grinding poverty, or criminal governments.

Especially with older Americans. They don't do a lot of internet so they are glued to the TV and the propaganda is presented with sitcom quality production.

Quite simply, they are brainwashed.

And for most older people, it is just inconceivable that the nice attracive people on FAUX are lying to them. They see the hosts as trustworthy and smart and they talk in a way that resonates with them and is easy to digest. Of course, all of this is coordinated to do exactly that. And you're right about the lack of internet usage. My Dad hates computers and the internet and only uses them if he has no choice. So FAUX is filling a void.

should not be limited to Trump’s bully tactics. Converting Fox into an outlet that supports legitimate, traditional republicanism would have been a vast improvement. Maybe the democrats could have threatened its owners in February 2021 with taxes, fines, advertiser boycotts or something, one way or another, in order to motivate Fox to replace its pro-trump ideology with pro-constitution, city-on-a-shining-hill, America as a world leader, old-style republicans.

Sure it would have been hard to find enough of them, but they love to see their faces on TV, so there’s that. Combine some old-timers waxing on about Reagan with any moderate GOP politicians you can find even dog-catcher.

The left wing alone cannot create equilibrium and stability on an airplane. We need something healthier than the rotting carcass on the right.

Trump is the master of stupid rationales that defy explication.

Putin wants Greenland, Iceland, Canada, and Alaska.......He needs them desperately in his plans to dominate world power.
Putin wants to own a Northern Passage shipping route, he also has already laid claim to all the mineral and oil rights below the Ice cap and North Pole......

Trump is merely a pawn of Putin and everything Trump is doing, is something that Putin is ordering him to do....

Krasnov owes putin and also wants to be putin. fuck the USA.

If you look at the history of Technocracy, Inc. you’ll see it. The map of their “technate” goes from Greenland to Panama, and into Venezuela. Elon’s grandfather was part of it.
They want the raw materials, the arctic oil routes, and all the land.

Maybe with Mump's blessing.

but it sounds as if he has become more entrenched.

...loved ones with addictions, in cults, etc., and the bottom line is they will only begin to heal when they themselves begin to understand the damage they are doing to themselves, to their lives, and to their loved ones.

And please prepare yourself, because quite a few people with afflictions like this simply don't survive them.

The person I once knew as my dad is dead.

This is a sick zombie.

It is a grieving process. Better to recognize it. But it hurts.

Or ask an anonymous friend to do so.

You will honestly be doing him a favor. As in removing poison.

Good luck.

Sounds like I'm old enough to be your dad.

Ask me anything.

No Vietnamese invaded New London on my watch!

You and George Gogle! 😄

another hard lesson to remind us of what we maybe should have known.

The perfect title for a book about the past 45+ years in the U.S. would be:

WHILE THE NATION SLEPT

With several volumes dedicated to the 80's and even more volumes dedicated to 2000-2008, and 2016-2020

I’ve been avoiding people who were in my social circles . Finally, I told them all, that I will no longer participate.
I did see one lately, who keeps claiming that republicans are promoting conservative values. I told him that he needs to stop consuming the lies that his other friends and Fox media .

of their entire life is Fox news, in the background or front and center. I think about that, and it takes some of the rage out, and changes my perception of the problem. There should be a name for when people live in a world void of truth. Julius Striecher hung for his spread of propaganda in Germany. I've read it said he did far more than others that hung for their crimes because he poisoned the minds of an entire generation. Fox deserves no less.

my working, raising kids, and going to school, no mention of all the shit he did to his family - nothing - just embarrassment that his daughter is a teacher from California.

My Dad was always sort of an asshole, and he was a perfect fit for trump's Magat cult. He was a WW2 vet & passed several yrs ago.

If he's planning to invade Canada or Greenland personally, maybe it's time to start giving his guns away while he naps

didn’t fight for the Nazis.

/s

That might introduce a new, but credible, POV.

I really don't need the trauma.

I'm sure his dad (my grandfather) would think his son had lost his mind.

did not have the experience that some - not all - who served in Europe did - of seeing the death camps. And I don't suppose all those who did ever spoke with their children about them. But today might have been better if they had. I suspect your dad would have benefitted from learning about that while he was young and impressionable. Too late now. Probably avoiding him is the kindest thing you could be doing right now.

She really does love him and calls occasionally - and always on his birthday - to see how he is doing.

Her husband is ex-military and a huge Trump fan. She keeps up with nothing. My Hubby tried to get her up to speed a little on Trump and discovered that she knew absolutely nothing of what is going on or has been. She does not have Internet and has no tech savvy at all. I can't say if she watches any news on TV or gets a newspaper. When my husband told her about the child separations under Trump's first term, she was shocked. She truly loves children and had a (now deceased) handicapped son and adopted (now deceased) handicapped daughter, plus several other children. She eventually just gave the phone over to her husband, who never talks to us. Anyway, Hubby wisely knew it was futile to talk Trump with him, so he kept to every other subject he could think of.

After the call, Hubby said that now he understands how some people voted for the Orange Menace.

about politics, geography, history, the Constitution and so much more. They parrot Faux talking points and consider that 'enough'. No reasoning with them because they have no factual foundation of support.

It's never easy to lose someone to the hate.

I have people who are family and people who used to be friends, and I've broken off all contact with them---I don't intend to ever have interaction with them, again. They have proved themselves unworthy of associating with me. This is the world that trump and his minions have imposed on us---I believe we'll get through to a brighter future somehow, but in the meantime, things aren't going to be pleasant. Hang in there, Coventina.

our brains, along w mad magazine and dr demento. some of that generation fell into news max /fox tv/ sinclair "talk radio" have had some of their brains melted by that . i feel foryou that u had to go through that. i have 40 ppl i nmy apartment comlex, i dont disscuss politics. i really , really have to trust u in order to do that .my late dad bought into that stuff hook line and sinker . heres a for thee.

Repukes. It did not take long for me to show him the truth. I fondly remember giving him the DVD for the documentary “Sicko”. It shocked him so much we watched it twice. He had no clue how we are getting fucked over by the so called conservatives.

I am sad that your father still believes the lies. So sorry for the loss you must feel, sending you a virtual DU hug.

Talking about ANYTHING except politics is fine. But anything political is apt to lead to fighting words.

So most of the time, This is how I keep sane……rather than try to bring them up to speed on what is happening, I am waiting patiently for their TriCare to be dissolved. Their Social Security and Medicare or Medicaid to be destroyed. It won’t be pretty when the things we’ve all been losing our minds over becomes reality. But we won’t have to explain how it all happened while they were Fat, Dumb and Happy. It is small comfort but we all know their day of reckoning is on its way. It’ll be a bitter pill to swallow, but I think it is the only thing that’ll make them break with trump.

brainwashed by republicans at work and her boyfriend.

But last few weeks she has been very quiet in family video chats about anything political because she is very close to my other daughter and her husband just lost his job at CDC, other family members lost forestry jobs. She knows I am nervous about social security and medicare.

She voted for him because she makes good money and wanted lower taxes but I don't think she realized how much it would hurt the rest of the family. we tried to tell her before of what he would do she would say he is just teasing the dems.

I specifically remember when I talked about all the things he was going to do, she said stop freaking out mom, he isn't going to do any of those things he says stuff just to get attention.

Our son is a diehard trumpy. I know when the 💩💩💩hits the fan for him (or for us), he’ll finally understand. His father in law is in the state veteran’s home. At one point they thought our son was going to have to pay $500 a month to his fees because his Social Security was not enough. I don’t know how they got out of that but I have a feeling if SS and Medicaid go on the chopping block, he may have to move back in with our son and his wife. The FIL needs constant care and son and wife both work full time. I have no idea what they’ll do. I dread thinking about what will become of them all.

Our son is kind and caring and often generous ….but MAGA thinking has clouded his thinking on subjects like the border, crime and who gets handouts. He’ll have to rethink all of it if tRump has his way. A day of shock is headed at him like a freight train ..and he does not know it. We can’t tell him. He won’t listen.

the horror of their liberal families. One of my lifelong friends raised her daughter (now 50) as a single mom, and they were very aligned in terms of their political and world views until the last few years, after the daughter got divorced, and an old boyfriend (now husband) re-entered her life. (And my friend had devoted all her time, energy and money to supporting her daughter and grandkids and keeping them financially afloat for the duration of the first, troubled marriage.) My friend is still close with her daughter, but it's been heartbreaking for her...and the daughter and new husband act like SHE is the one without critical thinking skills (of course). That becomes a two against one situation, so she really has to steer clear of political conversations.

perfectly. She is super nice and kind, into yoga in her off time, would help anyone in the family.

Just been brainwashed about economy, handouts and immigrants by boyfriend and others at work.

She used to vote dem for many years until this last time.

We can only hope these people wake up to the truth, but its hard when they are surrounded daily by the lies.

For you and for all of us.

aloha.

I'm so sorry.

Sad to hear -
You can pick your friends but ya can't pick your relatives !
They CANNOT be reasoned with, don't even try

I’m afraid to ask him. We do not talk politics anymore.

We've got to stop trying, accept what is, and try to move forward both in our personal lives and as a country with the new reality.

I'm sorry because I'm sure talking with your dad was hurtful.

Don't look for the truth, you won't like what you find.

Stay with those you know are reality-based.

If they've been sucked into the cult, you have to just cut your losses and grieve, and move on.

Seriously, "Leonid." The Russian propaganda farms aren't even trying to hide their game any because they have conditioned this MAGA cult to the point that no amount of reason matters.

So we could be free to vote with Russia and China in the UN in 2025 against Ukraine.

I don't reach out to my magat brother because I don't see him being any different, and our father served in WWII as well. He's brainwashed by fox news and hate radio. these people have no actual comprehension of what is happening right now. Definitely part of the problem.

Venting HERE! On DU!! If ANYBODY’s gonna be supportive and sympathetic, you’ll find it Right HERE!!!

I’m so sorry you have to go through such a distressing and disappointing thing. But please know that you can talk about it here, all you want or need to, and there are so many here who’ll understand, and be supportive.

You’ve come to the exact right place.

I was also born in 1943. My deepest sympathy on your loss.

That sounds so very disappointing.

You gave him another try and it didn't work out at all.

Not sure if they have a cure yet for that, but don't give up hope.

but i too keep trying to reach family and friends
who are maga but the propaganda is relentless
but still i try with humor, facts and love- and it is not
returned but hey, again i still try- i know there is a
term for this [santayana or wiley coyote] lol

I had to let go of my family, too. You have to protect yourself. I'll be thinking of you, Coventina. We will be here to listen.

... one more chance. You went in with an open heart and he barred the door.

That is truly horrific. Any chance he needs a psych evaluation etc? It definitely would be best for you to go no contact. My brother recently had an uber driver start telling him out of the blue that Canada was going to be the next state 😹 He explained to him why that would never happen.

For what?

My gawd what a cult. I'm so sorry. I have a Maga 'dad' too and we're estranged for similar reasons.

And just chalk whatever they say and do up to the broader phenomenon rather than letting it poison your good memories.

May I suggest that there are few options when trying to reach hearts and minds.
Start by dropping your expectations.
Be always kind.
Always reference reality with your words, nothing more, such as:
"I can't help but feel that humanity does better with cooperation",
And don't ask for their opinion

Forget about Iran. I believe it's going to start with the Felon invading Canada or Greenland.

it is hard.

My brothers have been a lost cause for a long time. It's hard to write people off, but sometimes, for mental health reasons, you need to keep contact to a minimum.

His logic would have given Hawaii to the Japanese after they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Sometimes there’s just no reasoning with people.

going to talk to him or see him again because of his political beliefs?

supports things that are morally repugnant, they are treated like morally repugnant people. No one wants to know them.

Shared DNA doesn't give you a pass. Shared DNA actually makes it more horrifying.

See how that works?

Really???!??

that many people who vote are low-information? They are not lining up eager to vote for fascism.

And they see the rest of what he is doing as icing on that cake.

They are voting to put brown people and women "back" into their places. Yes, they absolutely are voting for fascism, whether they know the word for it or not.

is very important in life, my friend!

Yet some people insist on continuing one which exposes their damaged psyche for all to witness. It's just sad. 😢

You're healing...You're not insane in the membrane to me.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, that won't happen with me as both my parents passed some years ago.

However, I am alienated from at least one of my siblings and there are two others who are pretty silent about their MAGA politics around me thankfully. There are also 4 of us that are solid anti-Trumpers (3 solid Dems and one independent who has voted against Trump in each of the past 3 elections --- 3!!!! what a frigging nightmare).

The sibling I am alienated from is a recently transgender, long time evangelist who has been shunned by her (now) church. Go figure that she is still rabidly a Trumpist ... absolutely mind-boggling.

For some reason we always lull ourselves into thinking that we can reach them. I’ve had to draw the line with the cultish fever of my family. I grieve every day for the loss but there is no other option. These cuts and changes will eventually hit them and when it does they will weep in disbelief and denial of any responsibility. My boundary is set. They will have to deal with it. I understand your pain and sadness. Take care. My heart goes out to you. 💗💗🙏🏼💐

Tell me Dad.,.,how did Zeus deal with his father Cronus?

you tried, and that is commendable

way.