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erronis

(19,198 posts)
Thu Apr 3, 2025, 07:03 PM Apr 3

The Insurrection Act -- Joyce Vance

https://joycevance.substack.com/p/the-insurrection-act

Can Trump shut down protests using the military under the Insurrection Act? What would it take? The answer is complicated, but as more and more protests take place, understanding that legal terrain has become increasingly important. While invocation of the Act doesn’t look imminent, it’s always good to understand the law in advance. That’s our mission tonight.

First, a reminder about the importance of peaceful, nonviolent protests, the approach successfully adopted by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., to fuel the civil rights movement in the 1960s. When Dr. King organized sit-ins in public spaces in Birmingham, Alabama, in 1963, the images that were projected across the country showed white Birmingham police officers turning pressurized hoses and aggressive police dogs against peaceful demonstrators. Peaceful protests forced Birmingham’s entrenched, racist police chief Bull Connor to resign. Public spaces like lunch counters and bus stations in Birmingham were ultimately desegregated.

. . .

In our country, the military has long been prohibited from domestic law enforcement because of the fear that its involvement would put us on a path towards tyranny. They defended their vision of government against claims made by anti-federalists that the country was too big, that a president would become a dictator, and that a national army would crush any possibility of dissent.

In Federalist No. 10, James Madison defended the new Constitution against claims it would permit a president to become a dictator with a national army at his disposal to crush any possible dissent. He wrote that the system of government under consideration contained checks and balances to protect individual liberties. He argued that the legislative branch and the judicial branch would act as checks on the executive and there would be a balance of power shared between states and the federal government. Donald Trump, quite clearly, does not agree. He continues to try to give himself all the power of government, much as some of our early leaders feared a president might do.

It is up to each of us to decide how we will meet this moment. For some of us, that will mean showing up to Saturday’s “Hands Off” protest events. For others, it will mean continuing to confront elected officials with their obligation to face the challenges of this moment head-on. Others will be preparing to run for office, support a candidate, or educate their children about the importance of voting. Protest can take many forms. But what’s increasingly clear is that Trump’s effort to create a culture of fear has not silenced the opposition. Americans are, indeed, ready to save the Republic.
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The Insurrection Act -- Joyce Vance (Original Post) erronis Apr 3 OP
Trump can do whatever he wants. No one will stop him. Irish_Dem Apr 3 #1
No. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 3 #4
Curious. How do you think his trajectory will be stopped? erronis Apr 3 #5
The people will speak. From that point there are multiple branches Bernardo de La Paz Apr 3 #6
Wow! I appreciate your heartfelt response. Can you post as OP? erronis Apr 3 #7
I am considering it. Might do so tomorrow morning. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 3 #8
Posted in GD Bernardo de La Paz Apr 4 #9
this would be the end RJ-MacReady Apr 3 #2
Invoking a war time act, when we are not a WAR. Historic NY Apr 3 #3

erronis

(19,198 posts)
5. Curious. How do you think his trajectory will be stopped?
Thu Apr 3, 2025, 07:18 PM
Apr 3

No more "adults" in the room.

Compliant/subservient (r) congress.

Supremes under the thumb of the pseudo-catholic dominionists.

Military leadership eviscerated.

I'm hoping you have some helpful ideas on how this putinesque tragedy can be stopped.

Bernardo de La Paz

(54,867 posts)
6. The people will speak. From that point there are multiple branches
Thu Apr 3, 2025, 08:01 PM
Apr 3

The branches assume massive economic losses and pressure motivate millions to get into the streets at the same time as the oligarchy is wavering and the Republiconners in Congress are panicking.

It is said by some that 3.5 percent is all it takes to run a successful popular revolution. I think they point to the American one, you know when tRump patriots defended the airports against the redcoats, and others that I forget. But it seems reasonable if we consider that 3.5 percent of the US population is over ten million people.

The marches April 5 are great but there will need to be a series over time, ever-increasing. The early ones are necessary to train organizers and get people used to the idea.

Imagine if two weekends in succession ten million people march all over the country.

Imagine if ten million people buy only the absolute minimum to get by: healthy food, medications, rent/mortgage, utilities. Keep that up for the third quarter 2025, the summer of reclaiming democracy when millions of people are in the streets, and that makes a noticeable dent in the economy. That will be on top of many more people delaying major purchases to manage inflation at the same time as layoffs are happening from tariff taxes, contraction in trade which means layoffs from export jobs, severe government spending cuts rippling through the economy, huge government layoffs.

The people will speak. Timing indeterminate. The tipping point where enough key people have noticed enough destruction to take enough action can't be known till after the fact and maybe after historical analysis.

Then there can be several branches.

1) Twelve Republicon Senators go to the White House as articles of impeachment enter committee.

2) Vance sees his moment and convinces half the cabinet to 25A the dementia patient.

3) The stock market being down deep into bear territory and the economy in depression, tRump panics and decides to try to salvage his legacy by reversing course, reversing all the tariffs and putting in huge spending stimulation.

4) Republicans panic about 2026 or 2028 and Read the Riot Act to tRump. They tell him, either he completely reverses course or they will vote veto proof legislation with Democrats to do it themselves.

5) Trump reacts by bringing in a harsh Clampdown and invokes the military, which after much false starting and internal turmoil refuse to massacre civilians.This leads to one or the other of the first four options. This is the most risky one of all because it could go the other way resulting in lots of blood shed.

6) Persistence, sustained, and multitudinous court actions rise and the Supreme Court finds itself needing to maintain the judicial branch independence and face a series of cases they admit and rule 5-4, 6-3, and 7-2 against tRump, which neuters him and strips away powers like levying tariff taxes. I am a little cynical about the Court and recognize that this might be too little too late or not at all. But I do think if it comes to it, during a time when the wannabeking's destruction is plain for all to see and blame him for, they will also think of their reputations, their legacy, and their love of the rule of law. This option is also risky because it depends on some people doing the right thing at the right time and there might not be the right mix of critical cases to finally block tRump. I am not as cynical as many are about the Court, despite the mistakes they made with Citizens United and the limited immunity ruling, but I am not confident in them. It remains a possibility.

7) My imagination is limited, there are other ways.

Things which would make the branches less likely or less possible are violence and massive property damage. Organizers will have to ride herd on outbreaks by mounting large scale self-monitoring by the crowd, training on how to isolate provocateurs and detain them, and ubiquitous video making of all activity around all parts of crowds. I would suggest never go into the streets at night.

I don't know what will happen but I'm sure that at this point it will take massive public action and massive economic action and other forms of mass action to turn it around.

But it can be done and the doomers should just shut the fuck up, get out of the fucking way, and let the fucking people get the fucking job done.

erronis

(19,198 posts)
7. Wow! I appreciate your heartfelt response. Can you post as OP?
Thu Apr 3, 2025, 08:59 PM
Apr 3

Your scenarios seem to make sense but there are, as you noted, a lot of unknown deviations. We're dealing with unstable non-geniuses that have some more intelligent backing that are primed to throw monkey wrenches into everything.

RJ-MacReady

(388 posts)
2. this would be the end
Thu Apr 3, 2025, 07:11 PM
Apr 3

It would eventually end in violent confrontation. Especially if any military occupation is heavy handed.

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