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angrychair

(11,682 posts)
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:05 PM May 2025

This is not fiction

Reminder that right now, in the state of Georgia, we, as a society, that we are holding a dead woman as a prisoner and the government is forcing a hospital to keep a brain dead woman alive against the wishes of her family just because she died while 9 weeks pregnant and the state government will force her to breath and her heart to pump until the completion of the third trimester and they can cut the fetus from this poor family's daughter's corpse.
The kicker is they are also forcing her family to pay all the medical bills to keep her alive for the next 7 months.
All without understanding the actual impact on the fetus by forcing this poor woman to maintain this zombie state for 7 months.

This is a fucking horror show.

Reference: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-woman-brain-dead-woman-must-carry-fetus-to-birth-because-of-abortion-ban/

67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This is not fiction (Original Post) angrychair May 2025 OP
It is unusual for them to do this get the red out May 2025 #1
If you are dead, they make you stay alive. Irish_Dem May 2025 #2
That was not an option soldierant May 2025 #37
Where are the attorney's arguing for her 13th Amendment right? CrispyQ May 2025 #3
This is not a choice issue. soldierant May 2025 #38
Irrelevant lonely bird May 2025 #57
Yes. And she DID NOT have a FETUS inside her! raging moderate May 2025 #58
Brain dead is usually dead. bucolic_frolic May 2025 #4
Does a Viking King count as royalty? Delmette2.0 May 2025 #7
Or being an Hunyadi? ChazInAz May 2025 #46
Yes, and Charlemagne Equity Fund will have a deluge of applications ./nt bucolic_frolic May 2025 #59
LOL. Delmette2.0 May 2025 #60
Forcing the family to pay the bill sounds unconstitutional....... Lovie777 May 2025 #5
So they should be like tsf and pay nothing. rubbersole May 2025 #44
I don't think parents have legal obligations for adult children in most cases. Doesn't make sense. Nt lostnfound May 2025 #65
And if the family refuses? DFW May 2025 #66
It is a horror movie though KT2000 May 2025 #6
Not a horror movie.... usedtobedemgurl May 2025 #24
Can you Spell G-I-L-E-A-D ?!!! electric_blue68 May 2025 #48
Exactly. usedtobedemgurl May 2025 #49
Ikr. Ick and yikes! electric_blue68 May 2025 #50
I would expect nothing less... GiqueCee May 2025 #8
My babies and I bonded while they were in my womb. pandr32 May 2025 #9
i have to wonder if this baby will b ok. mopinko May 2025 #12
Probably not. Girard442 May 2025 #15
Basically the baby is in a machine womb. pandr32 May 2025 #17
Worse. MadLinguist May 2025 #61
I had same experience. Dixiegrrrl May 2025 #42
There's changes in our brain. pandr32 May 2025 #56
Birds Cirsium May 2025 #63
Interesting. pandr32 May 2025 #64
But... But... But... BurnDoubt May 2025 #10
Go OT on them and quote Numbers 11: 5-13, the test for an unfaithful wife. multigraincracker May 2025 #32
This is America 2025. spanone May 2025 #11
Why they hate the ERA. rickyhall May 2025 #13
GOP BRAND Iamscrewed May 2025 #14
sorry. the bill goes to the fetus humpers, plus child support. pansypoo53219 May 2025 #16
It should. pandr32 May 2025 #18
G.O.P. Kristo-sadism BoRaGard May 2025 #19
We are living through an Age of Dystopia. SleeplessinSoCal May 2025 #20
Has the family requested she be taken off of life support? WarGamer May 2025 #21
They wanted her off, justaprogressive May 2025 #26
Then the desires of the family need to be respected. WarGamer May 2025 #35
Every horror is worst than the last one. Joinfortmill May 2025 #22
The horror show is that lawyers are telling doctors how to practice medicine. Mosby May 2025 #23
Shes only 9 weeks?!! Kali May 2025 #25
I believe she was 9 weeks when she had the incident Crunchy Frog May 2025 #51
insanity Kali May 2025 #54
More Detail & Parallels justaprogressive May 2025 #27
Agreed Evolve Dammit May 2025 #28
It is, i think, the height of depravity. NNadir May 2025 #29
We are drowning in dystopian plot twists of horror. yellow dahlia May 2025 #30
The powers that be have taken away her reproductive rights from the beginning and now her dignity to die peacefully Deuxcents May 2025 #31
This is not unusual - 20 years ago this year BumRushDaShow May 2025 #33
Yep angrychair May 2025 #40
Kick SheltieLover May 2025 #34
Christian Taliban. nt. Hotler May 2025 #36
The fetus may not survive according to docters. This is so fucking cruel. Autumn May 2025 #39
I have zero doubts angrychair May 2025 #43
Dear Pope Leo. If you get a minute. BidenRocks May 2025 #41
The Catholic Church ruled that terminally ill people could in good conscience refuse "extraordinary measures" Hekate May 2025 #55
I predict someone will take the hit Figarosmom May 2025 #45
The family shouldn't have to pay one penny of the medical debt; area51 May 2025 #47
A living woman has fewer rights than a corpse. Shipwack May 2025 #52
Are there prayer groups outside the hospital? Has anyone brought a life-size crucifix on a trailer hitch? Hekate May 2025 #53
Conservatives are degenerate ghouls. Shades of Karen Ann Quinlan in the 70s during the Ford administration. Martin68 May 2025 #62
Her family can sue the hospital and the people doing this.. Meowmee May 2025 #67

get the red out

(13,955 posts)
1. It is unusual for them to do this
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:07 PM
May 2025

Usually they refuse a life-saving DNC and just watch someone bleed out and die.

Irish_Dem

(79,782 posts)
2. If you are dead, they make you stay alive.
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:15 PM
May 2025

If you are alive, they make you get and stay dead.

soldierant

(9,286 posts)
37. That was not an option
Mon May 19, 2025, 07:01 PM
May 2025

The cause of death was unrelated to the pregnancy. I think it was a stroke or something similar. A fuller version of the story was in The Root.

She was only 9 weeks pregnant with somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to go.

CrispyQ

(40,667 posts)
3. Where are the attorney's arguing for her 13th Amendment right?
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:17 PM
May 2025

Why doesn't the pro-choice movement use this argument? If I know about it, why don't they?

Abortion and the 13th Amendment
2010
Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth Amendment and Abortion

Andrew Koppelman
Northwestern University School of Law, akoppelman@law.northwestern.edu

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1031&context=facultyworkingpapers

snip...

I. The basic argument The Thirteenth Amendment reads as follows:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


My claim is that the amendment is violated by laws that prohibit abortion. When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to "involuntary servitude" in violation of the amendment. Abortion prohibitions violate the Amendment's guarantee of personal liberty, because forced pregnancy and childbirth, by compelling the woman to serve the fetus, creates "that control by which the personal service of one man [sic] is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit which is the essence of involuntary servitude."6

Such laws violate the amendment's guarantee of equality, because forcing women to be mothers makes them into a servant caste, a group which, by virtue of a status of birth, is held subject to a special duty to serve others and not themselves.

~more at link


Parents can't be compelled to donate their organs to their child, even to save the child's life. Why does a fetus have more claim on a woman's body?

soldierant

(9,286 posts)
38. This is not a choice issue.
Mon May 19, 2025, 07:04 PM
May 2025

The cause of death was not related to the pregnancy, and she was dead before the government learned she was pregnant at all.

lonely bird

(2,768 posts)
57. Irrelevant
Tue May 20, 2025, 07:14 AM
May 2025

If she was injured that traumatically in a car accident the impact is the same.

It is not about whether the pregnancy caused her condition. It is about what is happening.

Iirc, the fetus is not developing correctly as well. If determined to be do to the condition of the mother’s body then termination should be in order.

raging moderate

(4,603 posts)
58. Yes. And she DID NOT have a FETUS inside her!
Tue May 20, 2025, 08:06 AM
May 2025

At 9 weeks, this poor woman had an EMBRYO inside her! And what is called 9 weeks is actually about 7 weeks. I remember that the pregnancies of BOTH my children were calculated from the starting dates of my menstrual bleeds. And the embryo does not really form at that point. Many women do not even know they are pregnant at the point this poor woman was forced into being a dead incubator.

bucolic_frolic

(54,032 posts)
4. Brain dead is usually dead.
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:21 PM
May 2025

Lawyers should try having her declared dead. Dead people cannot give birth. Or at least it's not happened before.

The implications are astounding. People could be declared the product of all their ancestors. Right back to famous rich royalty!

Property and inheritance rights could be claimed!

You say oh, this can't happen! Ha! Dead parent is birthing by state decree!

ChazInAz

(2,993 posts)
46. Or being an Hunyadi?
Mon May 19, 2025, 09:06 PM
May 2025

Jeeze, I could inherit the Austro-Hungarian Empire! (No idea how many are between me and the throne. Maybe I could pull a Richard III move.)

rubbersole

(10,987 posts)
44. So they should be like tsf and pay nothing.
Mon May 19, 2025, 08:26 PM
May 2025

Would the hospital put her out on the street?

lostnfound

(17,400 posts)
65. I don't think parents have legal obligations for adult children in most cases. Doesn't make sense. Nt
Tue May 20, 2025, 11:49 PM
May 2025

KT2000

(21,938 posts)
6. It is a horror movie though
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:44 PM
May 2025

Under the laws of some states, women are not people but just incubators for the state. This is abuse of a corpse.
They have taken this woman's dignity and humanity.
Allow her the peace she deserves.

usedtobedemgurl

(1,930 posts)
24. Not a horror movie....
Mon May 19, 2025, 04:20 PM
May 2025

More like a tv series....... Maybe something like A Hand male's Tale......since this actually happened in the show!!!!!!!

usedtobedemgurl

(1,930 posts)
49. Exactly.
Mon May 19, 2025, 10:12 PM
May 2025

Life imitates art……more so, A Handmaid’s Tale and 1984 have become instruction manuals for some people.

GiqueCee

(3,407 posts)
8. I would expect nothing less...
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:55 PM
May 2025

... from a bloodthirsty horde of faux-Christian Republican sociopaths. Inflicting pain on those who have done nothing wrong gives them intense, perverted pleasure.

pandr32

(13,772 posts)
9. My babies and I bonded while they were in my womb.
Mon May 19, 2025, 03:00 PM
May 2025

There was an unmistakable back and forth. Each child was different and I got to know them while pregnant. I am sure that works both ways.

mopinko

(73,313 posts)
12. i have to wonder if this baby will b ok.
Mon May 19, 2025, 03:07 PM
May 2025

how cd a baby develop normally like this? there’s a complex interplay w the mother and her hormones.

Girard442

(6,820 posts)
15. Probably not.
Mon May 19, 2025, 03:33 PM
May 2025

The deceased woman's body is probably continuously deteriorating. Who knows how long it can sustain a pregnancy?

MadLinguist

(901 posts)
61. Worse.
Tue May 20, 2025, 10:02 AM
May 2025

A machine womb could be programmed to provide some kind of feedback. Simulated or not, it'd be better than what this life-form is getting. This is state torture. If this process does end up delivering a child, it'll be a traumatized ghost from the moment of birth

Dixiegrrrl

(179 posts)
42. I had same experience.
Mon May 19, 2025, 07:40 PM
May 2025

Had no idea if that was usual or not, it was fascinating experience. 😊

pandr32

(13,772 posts)
56. There's changes in our brain.
Tue May 20, 2025, 01:18 AM
May 2025

We also grow an extra litre of blood and our systems connect. I don't think we know the half of it, but the two are one in a very special way.

Cirsium

(3,361 posts)
63. Birds
Tue May 20, 2025, 11:32 AM
May 2025

Your post reminded me of an interesting article I came across a while back.

Kleindorfer decided to study bird eggs and early development, which were then neglected research topics. "Maybe this was because only females have eggs and I was a woman in science," she told me. "I don't have a better reason." Kleindorfer had noticed that mustached-warbler chicks seemed to respond to the alarm calls of adult warblers, even though the thinking at the time was that such calls were directed at other adults, or possibly at predators. "If I put a snake nearby, the parental alarm call made the chicks in the nest jump," she said. "If I put a marsh harrier"—a hawk like predatory bird—"nearby, the response to the parental alarm call was that the chicks would duck." The chicks were responding appropriately to different alarm calls—a satisfying finding.

Kleindorfer also studied the superb fairy wren, a songbird that weighs about as much as a walnut and sports a flirty, upright tail. Despite their fanciful names, fairy wrens are commonplace in Australia. They are socially monogamous but sexually promiscuous—they are essentially in open marriages—and they bring up their young collectively. Arguably, they have even more to chat about than geese do. Fairy-wren nests are about the size of cupped human hands, built to contain pale, speckled eggs that are smaller than thumbnails. Kleindorfer and her team wired up nests with cameras and microphones and soon discovered something that they hadn't known to look for. "The mothers in nests were producing an incubation call—a call to the eggs," she told me. It was like a lullaby. Why would a mother bird make any sound that could attract predators to the nest? "Songbird embryos don't have well-developed ears, so this was completely unexpected," she said. "That started a twenty-year project—why is she calling to the eggs?"

The team compared incubation calls to the begging calls of young chicks. "It was very odd," Kleindorfer recalled. "Each nest had its own distinct begging call." What's more, each begging call matched an element from the mother's incubation call. This suggested, startlingly, that birds could learn a literal mother tongue while still in ovo. (Humans do this, too; French and German babies have distinct cries.) Even "foster" chicks, who as eggs were physically moved from one nest to another, learned begging calls from their foster mothers, rather than from their genetic mothers. This was big news in the ornithology world. "The paradigm of how songbirds learn—after hatching, from their father's song—was overthrown," she said. The same process was soon documented in more songbird species.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/10/21/how-scientists-started-to-decode-birdsong


Sonia Kleindorfer, is a biologist and bird ecologist and director of the Konrad Lorenz Research Center for Behavior and Cognition.

The article is behind a paywall, but I have the entire text if you are interested.

BurnDoubt

(1,469 posts)
10. But... But... But...
Mon May 19, 2025, 03:04 PM
May 2025

It will make Jesus Happy!!!! Sorry, Jesus. They have to drag your name through the dirt so they feel the "Righteous!". I think this was what He would have meant when He was quoted (400 years later) as saying would make Him puke. (Lukewarm Christians) The hypocrisy is beyond Belief. And the fiduciary penalties are positively Satanic. My everlasting sorrow for every Soul enduring this. Shame, Shame, Shame.

multigraincracker

(36,974 posts)
32. Go OT on them and quote Numbers 11: 5-13, the test for an unfaithful wife.
Mon May 19, 2025, 04:43 PM
May 2025

the Bible is clear, the soul enters the body with the First Breath Of Life. Conception is never mentioned except for Mary.

BoRaGard

(7,591 posts)
19. G.O.P. Kristo-sadism
Mon May 19, 2025, 03:58 PM
May 2025

"Crucify the mother. Then take food support from the child. Heh heh." - G.O.P.

SleeplessinSoCal

(10,369 posts)
20. We are living through an Age of Dystopia.
Mon May 19, 2025, 04:00 PM
May 2025

It's hideous and our stupid electorate is to blame. We all knew who the candidate was. They wanted this.

Watched 60 Minutes last night speak with billionaire inventor Palmer Luckey of Oculus fame. He spoke of his support for 47 and how the president is where the people are. That was so disheartening to hear. But it does explain how we became a dystopian hellscape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Luckey?wprov=sfla1

WarGamer

(18,249 posts)
21. Has the family requested she be taken off of life support?
Mon May 19, 2025, 04:06 PM
May 2025

"She's pregnant with my grandson. But he may be blind, may not be able to walk, may not survive once he's born," Newkirk said. She has not said whether the family wants Smith removed from life support.

justaprogressive

(6,299 posts)
26. They wanted her off,
Mon May 19, 2025, 04:23 PM
May 2025
In Marlise’s case a judge after 62 days allowed for Marlisa’s husband, Erick, and her family members, her parents, to receive her and prepare for dignity in her death and burial or cremation.

That was after 62 days of Marlise being tethered, two machines tethered to a shaking bed in order to prevent bed sores as much as possible. Marlise’s father said that her body had gone from being supple to being hard, like a mannequin.


https://msmagazine.com/podcast/fifteen-minutes-of-feminism-dead-pregnant-and-imprisoned-in-georgia-the-adriana-smith-case/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220324890 yesterday.

Mosby

(19,237 posts)
23. The horror show is that lawyers are telling doctors how to practice medicine.
Mon May 19, 2025, 04:19 PM
May 2025

And no one seems to care, including the doctors.

Crunchy Frog

(28,214 posts)
51. I believe she was 9 weeks when she had the incident
Mon May 19, 2025, 11:49 PM
May 2025

that caused the brain death. I think she's at 21 weeks now. They're planning to try to keep her like that on life support until 32 weeks.

Apparently the fetus is already showing signs of fluid in the brain, and could end up severely damaged.

Deuxcents

(25,501 posts)
31. The powers that be have taken away her reproductive rights from the beginning and now her dignity to die peacefully
Mon May 19, 2025, 04:40 PM
May 2025

BumRushDaShow

(165,725 posts)
33. This is not unusual - 20 years ago this year
Mon May 19, 2025, 05:32 PM
May 2025

a certain Senator from PA who we dub "Frothy" (Rick Santorum) made it a point to fight removal of the feeding tube of a woman who was born and raised in a suburban Philly township and was living in FL - Terry Schiavo - who had been declared "brain dead" and in "a persistent vegetative state".

Schiavo Case Now a Campaign Dilemma
By Alan K. Ota, CQ Staff

In 2005, Rick Santorum put himself in the center of the congressional debate over the fate of Terri Schiavo, a 41-year-old Florida woman who doctors said was in a persistent vegetative state after a brain injury suffered in 1990.

The goal of the second-term Pennsylvania Republican senator was to stop the removal of a feeding tube for someone whose cerebral cortex was largely gone, which Santorum depicted as “close to equivalent of someone with the disease cerebral palsy.”


ON THE SCENE: Santorum attends a vigil outside Schiavo's hospice in Florida two days before her death. (DAVID ADAME / EPA / NEWSCOM)

Proclaiming the issue to be the sanctity of life, he spoke with passion when he took the floor March 17, 2005, to plead for federal intervention to save an innocent woman “sentenced to death” by the Florida courts.

In the end, the controversy turned out very badly for congressional Republicans. Polls showed that most Americans, including a majority of Republicans, disapproved of Congress’ role in the case, a rebuke that contributed to Santorum’s 18-point defeat in the 2006 elections.

(snip)


When he ran for another term a year later, we sent him packing. He attempted to run for President in 2012 and that didn't go well.

The GOPers had battled including Jebby (who was governor) but she was finally laid to rest. This is what they do.

angrychair

(11,682 posts)
40. Yep
Mon May 19, 2025, 07:19 PM
May 2025

I thought about referencing that case in my OP as well because some of the concepts are similar but in that case, at least, the husband and the courts were on the side of doctors and the hospital. Here the hospital is actually facilitating this nightmare and state government and the state courts have decided to torture this woman and her unborn fetus. What is happening to Adriana Smith's body and her family, is absolutely horrifying and it should be nightmare fuel for every woman, young or old, that lives in Georgia.

angrychair

(11,682 posts)
43. I have zero doubts
Mon May 19, 2025, 07:41 PM
May 2025

The fetus will not survive. That it's lived this long is a miracle.
Perfectly healthy and livingwoman can have unexpected complications. This is a dead person that is being forced to breath and have a heartbeat only through extraordinary means, which is not meant to keep a person's body functioning during a pregnancy.
What they are doing is desecrating a corpse and torturing that unborn fetus.

BidenRocks

(2,772 posts)
41. Dear Pope Leo. If you get a minute.
Mon May 19, 2025, 07:23 PM
May 2025

What do you think of this? Could you straighten this up?

Amicus curiae means “friend of the court.” An amicus curiae brief is not filed by a party to an appeal. Rather, someone outside the case with an interest in its outcome will file one. An amicus curiae brief can be filed in both state and federal appellate courts.


Religion continues to be used for people control.
Anything you do is appreciated.

Hekate

(100,132 posts)
55. The Catholic Church ruled that terminally ill people could in good conscience refuse "extraordinary measures"
Tue May 20, 2025, 12:24 AM
May 2025

This came out years ago. Families could invoke this on their loved one’s behalf. As an American, tho, you have to make certain you put your wishes in writing. Personally I think a brain dead woman in her first trimester of pregnancy counts as someone for whom extraordinary measures should be waived. Too bad she was too young to have thought of making a will or giving someone her Durable Power of Attorney.

The mother of a friend of mine was a devout Catholic, and when she went into a nursing home had already made clear in writing that in the event of total incapacitation she wanted no feeding tubes, nothing but palliative hospice care. And so it was.

The Pope only has influence over his own flock, not the noxious American Evangelicals and their legislators. They don’t listen to women — I doubt they’d listen to any Pope.

Figarosmom

(9,745 posts)
45. I predict someone will take the hit
Mon May 19, 2025, 09:00 PM
May 2025

And unplug her. Too bad it's come to this and I can't believe it's gone on this long ready. 9 weeks...that's a loose mass of fluffy tissue.

area51

(12,570 posts)
47. The family shouldn't have to pay one penny of the medical debt;
Mon May 19, 2025, 09:33 PM
May 2025

send the bill to the GA legislature.

Shipwack

(2,998 posts)
52. A living woman has fewer rights than a corpse.
Mon May 19, 2025, 11:54 PM
May 2025

When I die, they can't harvest any organs or study any part of my body unless I have given consent.

Even if it's a life-or-death situation for someone that needs my kidney if I say "no" they're not getting it.

A woman, on the other hand...

Hekate

(100,132 posts)
53. Are there prayer groups outside the hospital? Has anyone brought a life-size crucifix on a trailer hitch?
Tue May 20, 2025, 12:02 AM
May 2025

Honestly, it’s not the real deal of pro-life fanaticism until Jesus Christ shows up on a trailer hitch.

Pardon my sarcasm. I truly feel for that poor dead woman and her family. This situation is hideous.

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