There are so many who do not understand how brave and committed these people are. I support them and maybe they can help turn the tide with their courage.

whomever I wish. And that will be anyone who disrupts normal people going about their daily responsibilities, or those who commit violent acts.

Help me better understand your position. Thank you.

what it sounds like if you add the rest of my descriptor rather looking for nefarious intent by ignoring it.

And "normal" people do not peacefully protest?

you really want to hear something you don't like.
Try to re-read my descriptor that contained none of the things that the voices are telling you.

You are a ForgedCrank. Cheers!

is anyone unlike him.

Just a reminder of why people are peacefully protesting against an authoritarian con artist.

At heart -- or whatever the void in his chest can be called -- he's a con artist. But he is now a Pinochet-style dictator. And he's just starting out. L. A. is his baby steps. What happens there will show whether he can move up to the next step -- which includes permanent martial law and such things as helicopters seizing protesters and dumping them, screaming, into the ocean.

The L.A. police and ICE raids were deliberately provocative. The ensuing protests were carefully sprinkled with agents provocateur who prompted the looting and started the fires. The troops on the street are there to intimidate people, and to kill them -- at least shoot them -- if the protesters are sufficiently provoked by the provocateurs or if a nervous officer issues orders to file or bayonet people a la Kent State.

The Marines there face a challenge that goes to the heart of their being: will they dishonor themselves and their tradition of honor and love of Country (and its founding documents) by threatening American citizens with military force? If called on to attack the protesters, will they choose Trump over Country? Trump over Marine traditions? Trump over the very concept of honor? This is a matter of serious importance to the Corps.

And called for.

and disrupt meaninful protest.

I am supportive of civil disobedience, as long as it remains non-violent and doesn't endanger lives.

I appreciate everyone with the courage to stand up to tyranny. Massive, peaceful demonstrations are the ideal. This action in LA was a response to armed, often masked, unidentified, government thugs attacks upon family members and neighbors. How the fuck would you respond? This event began with high emotions, emotions which remained high in the following hours; it is an entirely different beast than an organized demonstration. Stand up and be free, or cower and be oppressed.

I'd go to court and prove I broke no law. I most certainly wouldn't attack law enforcement with rocks and bottles, nor would I shut down roads that ordinary people are using to try to get to work or take their kids to school or the hospital. I'd probably also refrain from lighting shit on fire.
If you think these "protesters" are helping our cause by doing these things, you are mistaken. What they are doing in making it considerably worse and driving others to reject them and their cause.

Right wing agitators? We often find that after events.

do you disagree with?
The going to court and prove I broke no law part?.
Or is the part where I would refrain from attacking law enforcement and setting shit on fire?
I suppose it could also be that you believe it's a good idea to shit down roads so ordinary citizens trying to live their lives can't do that.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe most people would welcome chaos, lawlessness and violence.
eom.

I don't think you need to worry about violent acts.
And disruption is absolutely necessary in order to call attention to the acts of this law-breaking administration.
You could get on board and help with this effort.

hope you are right about the violence, I hope it stops immediately.
But I have to disagree on the disruption. The focus should be management, ie: government and authority.
How may people do you feel will be sympathetic to a cause when protesters stand in front of their car and make them late for work or an appointment, etc? The true number is in the negative direction. The attention you get will not be the kind that you seek.

is the way protesters view it, then they should be prepared for the consequences. And those consequences can include arrest, prosecution, and dwindling support for their cause as the entire public is now pissed off at them. All it does is drive their support toward the authorities

There will always be people who wish protests just weren't so darned “protesty.”

But that’s not the way it works.

during the Civil Rights Movement are not worth listening to or learning from I can only disagree strongly. That movement taught us how to be successful and we owe the rights we enjoy today to what they learned the hard way. We even have fighters from that time on DU who with patience and humor have tried to steer us in the right direction. They are not scolding us, and they have earned the right to try to teach us. Will we listen?

We are all entitled to freedom of speech, BUT if you are not helping the solution...then the rest of us are free to speak up and critique and offer our observations.

When people fuck things up, they sometimes fuck them up for all of us.

We should always learn from those who have gone before us. There are proven methods and philosophies...and then there is a "free for all".

Thank you for offering context.

and I want to be as strategic as possible, in all ways - messaging and safety.

I don't understand what is so offensive about respectfully sharing opinions.

as a union member and advocate for various causes. I agree fully with your sentiments.

more prepared when I head out. I don't read advice that doesn't resonate and think, how dare they say that opinion!

Honestly, the more full spectrum and diverse the opinions I have to read and pick through, the more prepared I feel.

And of course, I completely support these brave LA protesters and wish them safety and strength!

2. You are seriously discounting the work of Malcolm X, the Blank Panthers, and others that also helped bring about the "rights we enjoy today" all while having a very different message than MLK.

I think the original post is calling for people on one side of the debate of the most effective strategy to be quiet. Isn't looking to history and debating about the most effective way to organize a good thing? I understand people advocating for both sides of the debate, but I do not understand posts telling people not to debate.

I get your point, a more forceful showing did have a measurable impact. Fine, so let's look to history and let's make a thoughtful choice. Both movements had an impact. Could MLK's movement have made more progress more quickly without the other influence? Or not? How do we know this?

I am not a historian and was not alive back then, but I think that is what the poster you replied to is getting at. Let's listen to the historians and the people who were there and let's be smarter. Yes, we all know two camps typically emerge in these situations -- with the benefit of hindsight, is the duel, pacifist plus non-pacifist, way the most effective way to continue forward?

With the lives of our immigrant friends on the line, I think we owe a thoughtful strategy -- and I don't see how a thoughtful strategy emerges without debate and communication.

helping migrants. Maybe protesters ought to think about what they are trying to accomplish.

All of those fall squarely within free speech - and while I may express myself differently, it is not my right to insist others express themselves in the way I believe is best.

I do draw a line at some behavior. Initiating violence and destroying property (especially property of third parties) risks the safety and lives of others, and should be off-limits.

(And, while I'm not out in the streets in LA, I have been regularly protesting where I live.)

Violence is what they want. Don’t give it to them.

I'd like to get out on the street and protest peacefully, but I just can't do it anymore. I'm too old and my health problems are too numerous to list. But I can help in other ways, including donating to groups that help with bail money and legal defense for victims of illegal arrests, etc. There are lots of options in cities around the country, but I really like the work that the National Lawyers Guild does. Here's a handy link to NLG Mass Defense Fund. https://www.nlg.org/donate/massdefense/

Venceremos!

Being aware of the overall impression of our protests is important, and I welcome suggestions/criticism. I am one of those who believes that we need to use more American flags alone or joined with others — they’re out there, but the media won’t highlight them unless forced by sheer numbers. I happen to like using the CA flag as a unifying symbol, but it also may not play as well across the U.S.

And doing nothing is unthinkable.

But I can make signs for those who can be out there. I have a stack of poster board, foam board, and plain old ordinary cardboard, as well as an assortment of brushes and markers and paints. Some are my own ideas, some are asked for by those who will carry them. I still have a voice.

.

Faito!!

We did a great job until Kent State.

Throwing rocks, setting cars on fire, looting, blocking highways plays into Trump’s authoritarian agenda, in my opinion.

He’s a jackbooted bully and he gets off on violence.

Don’t play his game because you can’t beat him at it.

Unfortunately, but it mobilized even more people.

Ending the war took a long time, but waking people up was crucial.

Very few people will not fight back when you turn dogs loose, fire water canons and beat them bloody.
It was necessary for black people to endure that to bring about change. Fast forward 10 years and a new generation of black people were not going to tolerate that. These people are not subservient and they are willing to lay it all on the line, let’s support them in any way we can.

It's good to hear somebody say this.

infiltraiters from the real protestors.

It works inside and outside the crowds as voice and heart and spirit, especially on nearby infiltraiters and law enforcement. Singing is proactive and preventive action that goes along with "peaceful."

History shows that singing especially works on the positive sentiment and support by the American public. It also will today and beyond for those who see its many video variations later. (Videos might be edited in different ways, but it takes a special kind cyberhate to successfully can't filter out the singing. But all the millions of those who participated and witnessed it will know that lie.)

Thanks for your post.

Clearly it already a courageous act to criticize Trump and the MAGAts in any space. Right now it is an act of fearlessness

to go out in the street in any capacity. Ask the Australian reporter that was intentionally targeted by a cop while she was clearly not a threat (unless of course if you might consider being outed as a fascist a threat).

No one has the right to sit at home and criticize those people who are displaying a fair amount of bravery to lodge a protest for redress of grievances.

I'm just surprised that no one has been murdered in the streets up to this point. It is coming. I'm guessing June 14 will erupt in state sanctioned violence. I'll be in the streets on that day. I'm pretty sure I know where MineralMan will be. Where will you be?

* Infiltrators trying to spark violence to justify crackdowns.
* Privileged folk who take advantage of other people's troubles to go wilding for fun.
* The optics of carrying a foreign flag vs an American flag.

Discussing impact is worthwhile, regardless.

that delight in torching cars? No valid opinion unless I'm in the middle of that scrum?
Not entitled to speculate as to whether this might or might not be good for the cause? BALONEY !
What utter nonsense. Thanks .. !

I very much doubt I’ll ever be at a protest.

With that in mind, I think I’d be out of line being critical of those who do. It wouldn’t be up to me to say what flag they should be waving, how they should dress or how they should behave.

Burn a car? Attack police? Destroy buildings? Off to a long term in prison with you...followed by deportation for non-citizens.

Signs and flags? That's one thing. Destruction? I'm with the Beatles on that.

I would pose it to them in the form of a question. E.g. something like: “Say, I had an idea that might be interesting for these protests, can I run it by you and get your thoughts on it?”

That way it’s not even a suggestion, you’re just asking what the person thinks of an idea you had. Makes it very easy for them to dismiss it if they don’t like it.

More power to them. Wish I could join you. Now the marines deployed. Shameful.

Stay safe out there. Run if you need to. Help each other. I admire them.

I will wear my "What Would Jimmy Carter Do?" shirt. I will be with friend and and junior year in college roommate. Would not have imagined this all those years ago.

I will be at the Chicago protest. And one thing that pisses me off more than anything is people who love to bitch, but won't do anything about it. To me- that's worse than being a MAGA.

And yes- we need to heed the words of MLK and protest peacefully. That's number one. I am a gay man who lived through the 80s AIDS epidemic and did a lot of public speaking and protesting at great risk to myself. We never thought anything would get done, but it did. This is the time for everyone who is able to get out there and be heard.

BREAKING: SEIU California President David Huerta has just been released from ICE custody after days of detention. Here he is embracing his wife after his release (Video: Brittny Mejia)

— Marco Foster (@marcofoster.bsky.social) 2025-06-09T22:15:00.423Z

So if someone's protesting in a stupid, counterproductive, or illegal fashion, any of which could be easily used to turn opinions more against us, then we should just shut up and not comment.

I say this as someone who's been protesting this administration and will be out again on the 14th: what an amazingly fucking stupid idea to push.

they are not protesting for YOU.

Demanding no Mexican flags at LA protests is the "amazingly fucking stupid idea to push."

None of my business if I'm not in Southern California, because they're just protesting for L.A. Because, sure, there aren't any other communities that have concerns about ICE or the Trump administration's overreach. OK, maybe you think we should just not protest at all, or give a fuck about L.A. There's no National Guard out where I live, and no Marines on call, but if they roll on in and kill a bunch of Angelenos, I suppose I shouldn't care about that either because they're not protesting for me, just for them. It's an L.A. problem. No one need have any concern about anything going on there. Thanks for letting me know.

🇲🇽 🇺🇸 ✊

Yeah, whatever. Ego is all.

from anyone who was at Kent State or similar protests at that time. I know it's a long shot, but I'm not quite 60, and the college students from 1970 could very well be posting on here. I'd love to hear stories, tips, advice. My own parents weren't involved although they were quite liberal for small town folks (esp. with a father who served in the early stages of the Vietnam conflict).

None of us have been president, yet we all feel quite okay with criticizing Trump. Given your framing, should we all have to at least make a real attempt to be president to criticize? Or what about the January 6th people who believed they were protesting a stolen election? Is it that you think their cause is righteous and that there is no extremism in defense of a good cause?

And as always, our rights end at the end of someone else's nose. Protestors don't have the right to damage things as they please and certainly don't have the right to do so without criticism. Being a protestor isn't a free pass.

but our local protests have so far been completely peaceful, so I'm planning to be out there yet.

.... to others by my 25-member email list.

To get those things Democrats need to be elected. Things that cause us to lose votes I don't like.

Mexico tripled the min wage. Most countries have universal health care, and no cost college.

My main stream left of center information sources all criticize Trump, and yet all the images I see are of cars burning and cop cars destroyed with rocks. I don't think this will help with turning the senate Democratic.

MY RESPONSE As a RADICAL AND PEACEFUL LUTHERAN

I will wear my CLERICAL SHIRT - Black with White TAB

I will wear my STOLE - A Symbol of PEACEFUL SERVICE to the Last, The Least, The Lost, The Forgotten, The Neglected, the Maligned to the Blind, The Hungry, The Thirsty, The Wounded, The Mentally ill, the Abused, The NEGLECTED etc..etc...

I WILL STAND WITH MY HANDS UP
I WILL STAND WITH THE PROTESTORS
I WILL STAND BETWEEN THE ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER and the Peaceful Protestors
I WILL BE PRAYING FOR PEACE AND NON VIOLENCE
I WILL BE PRAYING FOR JUSTICE & MERCY FOR ALL THE DETAINED
I WILL BE PRAYING FOR THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF EACH OFFICER
I WILL MOST CERTAINLY STAND PRAYING FOR EACH DETAINED PERSON, THEIR FAMILY and CHILDREN
I WILL STAND WHEN THE BULLETS FLY

LET THE WHOLE WORLD SEE MY BLOODY BODY of a peaceful servant of The Prince of Peace.

Why is giving broad advice to people who don't need it good for you but not others?

MY RESPONSE As a RADICAL AND PEACEFUL LUTHERAN

I will wear my CLERICAL SHIRT - Black with White TAB

I will wear my STOLE - A Symbol of PEACEFUL SERVICE to the Last, The Least, The Lost, The Forgotten, The Neglected, the Maligned to the Blind, The Hungry, The Thirsty, The Wounded, The Mentally ill, the Abused, The NEGLECTED etc..etc...

I WILL STAND WITH MY HANDS UP
I WILL STAND WITH THE PROTESTORS
I WILL STAND BETWEEN THE ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER and the Peaceful Protestors
I WILL BE PRAYING FOR PEACE AND NON VIOLENCE
I WILL BE PRAYING FOR JUSTICE & MERCY FOR ALL THE DETAINED
I WILL BE PRAYING FOR THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF EACH OFFICER
I WILL MOST CERTAINLY STAND PRAYING FOR EACH DETAINED PERSON, THEIR FAMILY and CHILDREN
I WILL STAND WHEN THE BULLETS FLY

LET THE WHOLE WORLD SEE MY BLOODY BODY of a peaceful servant of The Prince of Peace.

....but pointing out that blocking freeways is a very stupid way to protest isn't patronizing. It's an objective fact.

People who miss court dates, job interviews, weddings, funerals, flights, classes, or visiting dying loved ones aren't going to think those blocking the freeway might have a point. They're going to think they're selfish jerks who made more than a mild intrusion into their routine. It's not going to generate any sort of sympathy for the cause.

And although the protestors don't intend to let houses burn to the ground or people die because emergency vehicles can't get through, but it can happen. (This is why a freeway blockage was disrupted in my area with some minor violence a few years ago - blockages like that have to be arranged in advance so emergency vehicles can be re-routed, but this wasn't announced.)

Just saying.

(And yes, I get that protests aren't supposed to make people comfortable. But they're also not supposed to make people dead.)


(Should add - the absolutely stupidest protest I ever saw, on video, was an anti-nuke protester in the 1980's who put his legs across the rails in front of an oncoming train carrying nuclear warheads. Even the other protestors begged him to move on the grounds that by the time the train turned a corner and its driver could see him, the train would be physically incapable of stopping. Basic F=ma and p=mv would take over; the train was too massive to stop in less than about a mile, and it wasn't even moving at high speed. But he kept his ground, insisting that the train could stop. Which it couldn't. He lost both his legs, and he was successfully sued by the train driver for mental anguish.)

Willson filed a lawsuit contending that the Navy and individual supervisors were given ample warning of their plan to block the tracks, and that the train crew had time to stop—which the subsequent official Navy report confirmed. The train crew filed a lawsuit against Willson, requesting punitive damages for the "humiliation, mental anguish, and physical stress" they suffered as a result of the incident, which was dismissed. U.S. District Judge Robert Peckham said Willson did not plan to cause the railroad workers any distress, because he assumed the train would stop before hitting him.[4]

Willson agreed in 1990 to settle his lawsuit against the government and train crew for $920,000.[5] He subsequently walks with prostheses and travels locally on a handcycle.

Seriously.

I'm sorry the protestor suffered a loss, and I share his opposition to nuclear weapons, but the train driver would not have been able to stop the train by the time he could be seen sitting on the tracks. This is basic physics. And those around him knew it; they begged him to get out of the way.

They could have stopped the train long in advance, I suppose, but rail schedules are kept very tight. One delay has a cascading effect on every other train using the rails. I'm not surprised they didn't stop the trains because of the upcoming protest.

Moreover, had I been the driver, I'd have assumed anyone with their legs stretched on the tracks would have the good sense to get them off before a train - one that was clearly not stopping, and could not stop - ran them over.

Train drivers sometimes see people throw themselves in front of their trains to commit suicide. It really does have a negative impact on their lives (see link below). So I can see why the driver filed a lawsuit - he had to live with the memory of running a man over and not being able to do a damn thing about it.



https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1615108/