But fuck NO!!!


I

growing weary of the genoicides and the games that Netanyahu keeps play to suck the US into the wars he starts to bolster his own personal political support.

He'll kill everyone just to keep his corrupt self out of prison, just like trump.

I wouldn’t want the world to judge all Americans by the actions of drumpf

And anyone who may be thinking of accusing me of antisemitism because I don't support Bibi can, to put it plainly, go fuck themself. I always have and always will support the Jewish people. That does NOT mean I have to support Netanyahu. I do not support him because I believe he has taken many actions that are not conducive to the welfare and survival of the Jewish people.

If I sound defensive, it's because that's how I feel. I've been much too reticent up until now, for fear of being accused of antisemitism. I have negative feelings toward Netanyahu, NOT because he is a Jew or because he leads a Jewish nation, but because I disagree with the direction in which he is leading his nation. I am anti Netanyahu BECAUSE I care deeply about the future of the Jewish people and the nation of Israel, and I'm not going to keep my mouth shut any longer. I stand with Israel. I do not stand with Netanyahu.

This is exactly how I feel. I’ve been pro-Israel my entire life, still am, but I am definitely anti-Netanyahu.

A histrionic question. BTW before you go overboard my hubby is Jewish and he condemns Zionism and the ongoing genocide.

Yes AIPAC should register, like JFK wanted its precursor, AZP, to register as such.

American citizens are allowed to have opinions on foreign policy and advocate to elected officials.

Lobbies on behalf of a foreign nation.

and advocate for those policies, even if you disagree with them. Even if they are Jews. Even if they are Zionists!

It doesn’t make one a foreign agent to support American solidarity with Israel. That’s ridiculous.

Sorry, you’re not going force American Jews to register as foreign agents because you don’t approve of the policies they advocate for.

What about Bob Menendez?

Please compare and contrast. Thanks

AIPAC is a group of American citizens and is funded privately, not by any foreign government.

Believe it or not, even Jews have the right to advocate their preferred policy positions to elected officials.

So, citizenship doesn’t resolve the question. The private funding does seem to be an important distinction.
Thank you.

Does your Jewish husband believe in the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish State?

Note that many other countries have a state religion:

Thank you for mentioning that and emphasizing my point.
"Zionism" is NOT a dirty word.

You don't actually think AIPAC was set up by, is funded by, and advocates for Americans who are Jews, do you? It is obviously funded by Israel, and as another post highlighted, only cares about American support for Israel.

rather than making accusations without evidence. This is a directive about Israel's war and demanding that Democrats support the carnage. That has nothing to do with American Jews. It's all about Israel's interests.

The person I responded to was lying.

You still haven't said how that person is lying. What lies did they tell? And why are those statements lies?

This is not true, it is a lie.

but it certainly gets contributions from Americans. https://forward.com/news/580248/donations-aipac-has-raised-since-oct-7-lever-howard-kohr-michael-tuchin/#:~:text=In%20the%20wake%20of%20the%20Oct.%207%20attacks,to%20confidential%20internal%20documents%20reviewed%20by%20The%20Lever.

Then there is the fact it's called the American ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee.

The poster I responded to clearly lied, AIPAC is a group of American citizens, and is funded by American citizens, not any foreign government.

and you say absolutely zero money comes from Israel?

You do realize that American Jews are allowed to advocate their elected officials on foreign policy and even policy toward Israel?

And yes, AIPAC is privately funded. I hope this has been an educational experience for you.

Last edited Wed Jun 18, 2025, 10:27 PM - Edit history (1)

but Democrats are not required to submit to AIPACs orders, and DUers are allowed to disagree.

There are people in this thread who claim the responses are antisemitic. That certainly is asserting we don't have a right to oppose AIPAC or the war on Iran.

As the poster asked?

How were you able to ascertain that, exactly?

I am assuming that you had done that research before calling another member a liar.

Please do share.

From your link:

https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/C00797670/candidate-recipients/2024

Wasn't that the question?

Politico: "In 2024 AIPAC was the biggest source of Republican money flowing into competitive Democratic primaries. "

There is a term for that belief but it upsets people so I won't use it

Of course it's Jewish money. This isn't some random group.

And you are implying that DUers are antisemitic if they think AIPAC has anything to do with Jews, which is ridiculous.

As for your "never" belittling DUers for being antisemitic, you rec'd this. Reccommending it is no better than saying it. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20410950

However, to claim that it is Israeli money financing AIPAC is an implication of “Jewish money”, an allusion to the “international conspiracy” that never seems to go away.

And I will stand by my recommendation because there is a demonization going on. When abandon Biden and the other groups campaign againstDemocrats that was just them “standing by their principles”. There was not much criticism at all, and some even cheered them on a strange position for a site that believes in supporting Democrats. And now in part due to their efforts, we all have to deal with Trump.

You asserted through your own posts, including the one above, that those who object to AIPAC's directives about the Iran War are antisemitic.

AIPAC is Jewish money, as the Jewish publication the Forward makes clear. To claim otherwise is absurd. Your assertion that criticism of AIPAC amounts to promoting a conspiracy that Jews control "everything" does not make sense in the context of this OP. Its purpose is to demonize those who object to war and AIPAC's demands that Democrats submit to them--RATHER than supporting another, more moderate, Jewish organization.

This thread has nothing to do with the Abandon Biden movement. You are insulting Biden voters.

I am objecting to 2 things

- the implication that AIPAC is a front that is controlled by Israel rather than supported by American Jews

- and that Jewish organizations are held to a higher level of scrutiny than other organizations

I have not objected to any criticism of AIPAC's stance vis a vis Israel or to those opposing the attacks on Iran

Democratic approval is unnecessary for the wars AIPAC so loves. They have their ideal president in office. Now they seek the absolute submission of Democrats. I hope the Democrats don't succumb, but I fear it will be the opposite.

a PAC that isn't interested in anything that improves the US, but demands absolute 100% loyalty to a foreign nation from our congresspersons.

of the W/Cheney years involved AIPAC getting highly classified intelligence about Iran from Larry Franklin, a top aide to Paul Wolfowitz. The plan to attack Iran, of course, was advocated by the necroconservatives going back before Clinton.

pnac's dream was to repurpose saddam's military to invade iran. they had other ideas.

im also skeptical of the plan to install pahlavi iii (or anyone) as shah. he has revealed his "100 day plan" . wonder how many meme coins he has.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-s-reza-pahlavi-says-100-day-transition-plan-in-place-if-khamenei-falls/ar-AA1GV95g?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Israel attempting to install a new Iranian leader will go about as well as when Cheney was promoting Ahmed Chalabi to lead Iraq after the US invaded. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

but even zahir knew how stupid that was.

capitalists prefer dealing with kings, el supremos,, and other assorted easily corrupted absolute rulers.

Let it stand without fear or favour.

they're on their own if they continue down that path.

Wish I could trust trump not to bumble his way into it.

Sounds like a good compromise.

--or is that just an "afterthought?"

It is a bipartisan approach, and AIPAC needs to maintain this stance.

Our foreign policies within the realm of the ME have been catastrophic for decades, unfortunately, a bipartisan effort for the most part.

Trump teases possible US strike as Iran supreme leader warns America: Live updates
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei rejected President Trump's demand for unconditional surrender, as Iranians jammed the highways out of Tehran.
Dan Morrison
Joey Garrison
Francesca Chambers
USA TODAY
June 18, 2025 2:50 pm ET
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/18/iran-israel-trump-us-live-updates/84257132007/

The only way not to be antisemitic is to full-heartedly support any and all wars and mass murders committed by Israel. A conscience is not allowed. Humanity is not allowed.

It lets you know that Democrats should talk to J Street, not the Netanyahu fans in AIPAC, who are Republican lovers.

AIPAC does not stand behind Democrats. AIPAC is biggest source of GOP donations in Dem primaries.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/09/aipac-republican-donors-democratic-primaries-00162404

I just regard AIPAC as another brand of Nationalism.

So, AIPAC can kiss my ass.

Trash.

N/T

and standing with the policies and actions of the current government of Israel.

Israel's genocide in Gaza; and Israel's preemptive strike on Iran is just as horrifying. I am outraged and ashamed that the US has not condemned these excesses, let alone cut off its support for them.

Turns out it was Obama that was the great negotiator. Trump's "art of the deal" boils down to bragging, bullying, and broken promises.

At a time when the world was already coming to see the US as its most dangerous nation, Trump's managed in the space of a few months to vaporize the last shreds of our credibility.

who runs this joint?

object to any criticism of AIPAC. Color me shocked.

but only within its current borders. Not beyond.

the amount of young voters we'd lose in our party if this becomes reality?
It almost feels like a MAGA op. The losses would just be massive & nothing but a huge favor to Trump & his fascist little minions.

Y'know, what goes around, etc...

However many countries he attacks?

Does our team have the gumption to tell Bibi, "You're not the boss of us.".

Washington’s engagement with Israel—like any other state—should be driven by the pursuit of concrete U.S. interests. Even U.S. relations with treaty allies such as France or South Korea feature debates, disagreements, and the normal push and pull of diplomacy. By contrast, the special relationship with Israel has fueled some of the worst actors in Israeli politics, encouraged ruinous policies, and generally done violence to the long-term interest of both countries.

Washington’s subsidies for Israeli policies have insulated Israel from the costs of those policies. What incentive does Israel face to change course when the most powerful state in the world refuses to condition its profound levels of political, economic, and military support? Were Israel forced to bear the full costs of its policies in the West Bank, for example, its pro-settler agenda would become harder to sustain.

A special relationship with Israel does virtually nothing for the United States while actively undermining U.S. strategic interests and often doing violence to the values that Washington claims to stand for.

It’s time to “normalize” the United States’ relationship with Israel. This does not mean making Israel an enemy of the United States, but rather approaching Israel the same way that Washington should approach any other foreign nation: from arm’s‑length.

No longer would decisions about military aid, arms sales, or diplomatic cover be rooted in path dependency or muscle memory, but rather in officials’ perceptions of the U.S. interests at stake. Instead of enabling, shielding, and subsidizing Israeli policy, the United States should reorient its relationship with Israel on the basis of concrete U.S. interests.

This would entail Washington ending its willingness to turn a blind eye to Israeli affronts to U.S. interests, by providing huge amounts of aid, and pushing for a swift end to this disastrous war and a permanent political solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/israel-strategic-liability-united-states#

Hopefully, AIPAC's message (if we are to believe The Prospect) is just preaching to the choir of Dems. We should all be on board against Iran and solidly for Israel on this. I know of no pro-Dem, pro-human argument to the contrary.

And if we're going to be "pro-human", then shouldn't we have the same healthcare system as Israel?