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Lonestarblue

(13,222 posts)
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 06:49 AM Jul 2025

Democrats Need to Understand That Opinions on Israel Are Changing Fast

I think this piece in the NYT reflects where we are as a political party today. It’s mostly about changing views of Israel, but it also focuses on why Democratic voters are disillusioned with our leadership today. A majority of Democratic voters want to condition military aid on Israel’s behavior toward Palestinians. Our leadership professes full support for Israel with no conditions, which is just one reason for voters feeling that leaders are ignoring them. From the article:

“Only one in three Democrats now view Israel favorably, according to Gallup. That makes Israel significantly less popular than Cuba, and only slightly more popular than China. Despite this, the party’s most powerful figures — from the minority leaders Senator Chuck Schumer and Representative Hakeem Jeffries to many of the Democrats likely to run for president in 2028 — oppose conditioning U.S. military support on Israel’s willingness to uphold human rights. This places them in clear conflict with their party’s base.

Support of Israel isn’t the primary reason that, according to Reuters, 62 percent of Democrats want new leaders. What seems to anger grass roots Democrats most is their party’s inability to defeat Donald Trump at the ballot box and stand up to him as president. But unquestioned support for Israel has become, for many, a symbol of the timidity and inauthenticity of party elites — and that leaves them vulnerable to political insurgents who don’t compromise the values of equality and anti-discrimination. That’s how Mr. Mamdani connected his support for Palestinian freedom to his broader message. “This is a politics of consistency,” he told Politico in April. “And it’s a politics that refuses to equivocate, no matter whom it applies to. That every single person deserves a dignified life.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/06/opinion/zohran-mamdani-democrats-israel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.UU8.ZTQG.e0PIoWD_Kolk&smid=url-share

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Democrats Need to Understand That Opinions on Israel Are Changing Fast (Original Post) Lonestarblue Jul 2025 OP
This! enigmania Jul 2025 #1
Someone will read this article and say, "See? There it is!" meaning they find antisemitism in it. There's no Scrivener7 Jul 2025 #2
"...it's a politics that refuses to equivocate... Girard442 Jul 2025 #3
They need to come to that realization quick. Autumn Jul 2025 #4
Yet even as they unconditionally supported Israel, Republicans said they were not Pro Israel karynnj Jul 2025 #5
Courage of Convictions JustAnotherGen Jul 2025 #6
I can't see why "upholding human rights" isn't a prerequisite Buns_of_Fire Jul 2025 #7
The US isn't very good at upholding our values internationally. paleotn Jul 2025 #12
I may be wrong Mossfern Jul 2025 #28
Never said it was one sided politically paleotn Jul 2025 #35
We've lost the moral high ground on JustAnotherGen Jul 2025 #13
Whose values though? Mosby Jul 2025 #16
Republican Evangelical base is Pro- End Times Martin Eden Jul 2025 #8
welcome to Oct 2023 or whatever year Tetrachloride Jul 2025 #9
I think I'll make that appointment for a root canal. nt BootinUp Jul 2025 #10
I'm one of those Boomers who also did a 180 switch mainer Jul 2025 #11
as a non religious person I havent paid any attention to Isreal and whatever country they are fighting now.. samnsara Jul 2025 #14
Boy, THAT'S for sure. calimary Jul 2025 #19
There are agnostic and atheist Jews Mossfern Jul 2025 #29
Beinart thinks Israel should be dismantled. Mosby Jul 2025 #15
Yes and no. snot Jul 2025 #17
Supporting Israel and support for Netanyahu are not the same. Texin Jul 2025 #18
+1. Netanyahu is a corrupt murderous thug dalton99a Jul 2025 #21
It's hard to support Israel while Netanyahu is in charge, but it's hard to support Gaza while Hamas is in charge. thesquanderer Jul 2025 #37
You don't say??!!! yardwork Jul 2025 #20
Sounds About Right Deep State Witch Jul 2025 #32
Post removed Post removed Jul 2025 #22
It is not surprising to me that Democrats are more favorable toward Cuba than Israel. David__77 Jul 2025 #23
I know this will come off cold and unpopular. Samael13 Jul 2025 #24
Sounds like an argument for cutting off funding. David__77 Jul 2025 #25
Im okay with that or not doing so Samael13 Jul 2025 #26
As a mom, grandma and great grandmother, these Palestinian kids enter my mind every day womanofthehills Jul 2025 #33
yes! mike_c Jul 2025 #27
This excellent article drmeow Jul 2025 #30
Exactly. This article explains what I have been struggling to formulate and articulate.. AloeVera Jul 2025 #31
People are posting on X - if people are not freaking out about the genocide Gaza womanofthehills Jul 2025 #34
This will be American children in short order JustAnotherGen Jul 2025 #36

Scrivener7

(58,267 posts)
2. Someone will read this article and say, "See? There it is!" meaning they find antisemitism in it. There's no
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 07:10 AM
Jul 2025

antisemitism in it.

"Never again" should have meant never again.

Girard442

(6,820 posts)
3. "...it's a politics that refuses to equivocate...
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 07:42 AM
Jul 2025

AKA
PRINCIPLES

Some of us think those are important.

Autumn

(48,724 posts)
4. They need to come to that realization quick.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 07:57 AM
Jul 2025

They ignored the anti war protests and threats in 2024. Look what that got us.

karynnj

(60,775 posts)
5. Yet even as they unconditionally supported Israel, Republicans said they were not Pro Israel
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:27 AM
Jul 2025

In 2024, they actually were less kneejerk Pro Israel than the US typically has been. You could say the withholding the bigs bombs given the use they would be put to was too little, too late and had no impact on Netanyahu.

Politically part of the problem is that some of the better known US Jewish advocacy groups reject not just politicians rejecting actions of Israel's right wing government, but of mainstream Jewish groups like J Street. AIPAC in particular, at least around a decade ago, claimed they did not assess what policies should be, they just supported Israel. Polls of Non orthodox Jewish people showed that the position of J Street was more supported, but AIPAC has always had more money and was willing to use it against any legislator who disagreed.

Add to that the fact that evangelicals, at this point, might support Netanyahu at a far higher percent than non Orthodox Jews. The combination means that in many places, even the smallest deviance from supporting Israel is politically dangerous. Ask yourselves why calling for a boycott of Israel is illegal in many states that allow you to call for a boycott of another state!

JustAnotherGen

(37,546 posts)
6. Courage of Convictions
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:47 AM
Jul 2025

Mixed with the massive ramping up in the Middle East.

I want to elect people who stand in their truth.

No more "see which way the wind is blowing".

If I run again next year - big IF - it is a campaign of Home Rule, encouraging gun ownership (dedicated hours at the police station to process applications), and allowing places of worship (both the Mosque and Temple are included) to have armed guards on their property. I would also like to offer security camera assistance as we do with carbon monoxide and fire alarms to all residents.

These aren't popular positions for Democratic Party members/voters all across America.

But in a town where Jewish and Muslims residents are starting to receive the same heat from outsiders that Black Americans in our town have received including myself - they are popular.

All politics are local. Global issues are permeating small towns in the North East. Let Netanyahu, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Trump be fucking assholes - because they are.

What works for Mamdani 45 miles away doesn't work in rural NJ.

I think HE can respect that. Every other Democratic Party member outside of my Borough needs to respect it too.

The wind may be blowing to turn our backs on certain religions -

Not in my town. If the Democratic Party doesn't like it? Then push me out. Tell me to go to hell.

Buns_of_Fire

(18,999 posts)
7. I can't see why "upholding human rights" isn't a prerequisite
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:48 AM
Jul 2025

for every penny in aid to any foreign government.

These are our values. You don't agree, you obviously don't need our money.

paleotn

(21,525 posts)
12. The US isn't very good at upholding our values internationally.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:29 AM
Jul 2025

Haven't been for a long, long time. The early 20th century banana wars. And that whole Cold War thing. Ironically, we became very good at destabilizing democratically elected governments we didn't like. This whole Iran slog is rooted in that.

But I get your point. Just because we haven't doesn't mean we can't. We should. So lets tie aid to progress towards a 2 state solution or some other peaceful resolution of this mess. No progress, no aid.

Then again, why the hell are we sending aid to another highly developed, free market economy? Israel is more than wealthy enough to stand on their own 2 feet. Seriously, it's like sending aid to Belgium. What?! Why?! For the Amurka first crowd, imagine what we could do with that money here at home.

Mossfern

(4,624 posts)
28. I may be wrong
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 01:39 PM
Jul 2025

but I believe that Israel was at times in favor of a two state solution - even forcibly evacuated Gaza in 2005, although not specifically to enable that.

Let me ask:
Do the majority of Palestinians accept a two state solution?
Do they accept the existence of Israel as an independent Jewish State?

Overall Support:
A Gallup poll in 2023 showed that 64% of Israelis did not support the two-state solution, compared to 27% who did.
Shifting Views:
In 2012, a similar Gallup poll found that 61% of Israelis supported the two-state solution. This indicates a significant drop in support over time.
Ideological Differences:
Israeli Jews, particularly those on the left, are more likely to support the two-state solution than those on the right, according to the Israel Democracy Institute.


and...
Declining Support over Time: Support for the two-state solution among Palestinians has declined over the past decade. For example, prior to the October 7, 2023, attacks, a Gallup poll indicated only 24% of Palestinians supported a two-state solution, a significant drop from 59% in 2012.
Generational Divide: Younger Palestinians are significantly less likely to support the two-state solution compared to older generations.
Hamas and Youth Opposition: Groups most opposed to the two-state solution include supporters of Hamas and the youth. While Hamas opposition is ideologically driven, the youth's opposition seems linked to feasibility concerns and views on domestic Palestinian politics and democracy.
Preference for Two-State Over One-State: Despite fluctuating support, the two-state solution tends to be more popular among Palestinians than a one-state solution in which a single state exists with equal rights for Palestinians and Israelis.
Impact of Recent Events: The events since October 7, 2023, have resulted in a hardening of attitudes on both sides. However, some recent polls suggest a slight increase in support for the two-state solution, potentially driven by those who perceive renewed seriousness in US and European discussions about its potential implementation.


This is not a one sided situation

paleotn

(21,525 posts)
35. Never said it was one sided politically
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 05:52 PM
Jul 2025

But it is from an aid standpoint. Palestinians get only a fraction of the dollars we pump into the Israeli military every year. Israel can afford to protect themselves.

You're right, there was progress in the 2000's and 20 teens. Since then, nutters on both sides have taken over , with the inevitable escalation. To the point now of being out of control. So what do we do? Keep pumping kinetics into the Israeli military to use on Palestinians? Seems counter productive in my mind. Both of them...either get your shit together or any aid, other than humanitarian, ends. Period. EOM.

Israel is playing us. Don't be played.

JustAnotherGen

(37,546 posts)
13. We've lost the moral high ground on
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:31 AM
Jul 2025

Upholding Human Rights.

We lost it long before the maga Pubs and Krasnov entered the scene. However, now the smoke screen is gone.

We've never been a Human Rights country - Genocide, slavers, Jim Crow, Etc etc.

I don't believe the bullshit about America anymore. It was always bullshit.

Mosby

(19,237 posts)
16. Whose values though?
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:38 AM
Jul 2025

That kind of thinking led to the Mexico City Policy, because conservatives think abortion is immoral, so they conditioned aid based on it.

Martin Eden

(15,358 posts)
8. Republican Evangelical base is Pro- End Times
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:49 AM
Jul 2025

Conflict in Israel plays a heavy role in that. Fundie Christians have no great love for Jews, whom many believe were responsible for the execution of Jesus.

Wanting the end of the world -- with all the associated suffering and death -- qualifies as a very sick and dangerous cult, in my view.

Jim Jones with his kool-aid was a rank amateur compared to them.

mainer

(12,497 posts)
11. I'm one of those Boomers who also did a 180 switch
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:05 AM
Jul 2025

After Oct. 7, many of us were in complete sympathy with Israel.
But the death and destruction visited on Gaza innocents since then has changed my mind.

It reminds me of how favorably the world viewed the US after Sept. 11. And how we completely f*&ked that up by launching the Iraq war.

samnsara

(18,718 posts)
14. as a non religious person I havent paid any attention to Isreal and whatever country they are fighting now..
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:32 AM
Jul 2025

..religious wars can never be won.

calimary

(89,028 posts)
19. Boy, THAT'S for sure.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:49 AM
Jul 2025

Sad to say.

And I can’t think of any way to solve that one. People cling to their religion like it’s a matter of life and death. And seems to me, far too many times, death can be the exact result.

Mossfern

(4,624 posts)
29. There are agnostic and atheist Jews
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 02:02 PM
Jul 2025

Jews are a People, not just a religion.
Hitler agreed with that as he didn't discriminate on what people believe, but who they are.

Mordecai Kaplan:

Mordecai Kaplan viewed Jews as a people and Judaism as a religious civilization, emphasizing their shared cultural and historical experience rather than solely as a religious group. He believed that this "peoplehood" was essential for the continuity and vitality of Judaism, especially in the modern era. Kaplan's perspective moved away from traditional notions of chosenness, focusing instead on the collective responsibility and shared heritage of the Jewish people.

Mosby

(19,237 posts)
15. Beinart thinks Israel should be dismantled.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:33 AM
Jul 2025

He can't be taken seriously anymore. Something happened to him.

snot

(11,484 posts)
17. Yes and no.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:43 AM
Jul 2025

To me, it's not about standing up against Trump so much as it is about standing up against the oligarchs who apparently set the agendas of both parties.

Texin

(2,831 posts)
18. Supporting Israel and support for Netanyahu are not the same.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:48 AM
Jul 2025
"...But unquestioned support for Israel has become, for many, a symbol of the timidity and inauthenticity of party elites — and that leaves them vulnerable to political insurgents who don’t compromise the values of equality and anti-discrimination. That’s how Mr. Mamdani connected his support for Palestinian freedom to his broader message."
I view Netanyahu much the same way I view trump. Both are a couple of crooks and they will hijack their parties and their countries to keep their sorry asses out of jail. In the name of Israel, Netanyahu is using Palestine as an excuse to to murder innocents in the name of "the State". It's genocide any way you name it or describe what is happening. As a human being, I am sickened and appalled by it, and the fact that the US, through its elected leaders, is aiding and abetting its perpetrator is unconscionable to me.

I believe Netanyahu will not be satisfied until he has murdered every last Palestinian to the last man, woman and child. Anyone who supports that - or stands by and looks on without objection - is no better than any Nazi that ever existed in my book.

thesquanderer

(12,902 posts)
37. It's hard to support Israel while Netanyahu is in charge, but it's hard to support Gaza while Hamas is in charge.
Tue Jul 8, 2025, 12:44 PM
Jul 2025

A stalemate of terrible options.

yardwork

(68,960 posts)
20. You don't say??!!!
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:50 AM
Jul 2025

Wow. I've never heard this before. /sarcasm.

I'm going to start dropping this post in all these threads...

Netanyahu's reactions were predictable and the goal of the Oct 7 atrocities.

Just simple observation tells me...

1. The Oct 7 attack was designed to be so horrific that Netanyahu would have an excuse to ramp up attacks on Gaza...

2. Where Hamas has deliberately embedded themselves into hospitals, schools, and homes, so that any attack on Hamas is an attack on civilians....

3. And upset many Israeli soldiers so much that war crimes became inevitable...

4. There was a well-designed propaganda machine ready to roll the morning of Oct 8, complete with cute emojis, spread through DSA and other youth-oriented movements in the U.S., which would ensure that....

5. There would be clashes on college campuses to provide headlines, excuses for congressional inquiries and deeply hypocritical and cynical accusations of antisemitism and toxic woke by the likes of Elise Stefanik, all designed to convince American voters that we have a CRISIS at WOKE UNIVERSITIES caused by Democrats that only Trump can fix...

6. And meanwhile don't vote for genocide joe or killer kamala, thus ensuring that Trump would win...

7. And enable Netanyahu to further ramp up human rights violations and further destabilize the whole region..

8. All to the benefit of sniggering sociopathic billionaires. Everybody else loses.

Deep State Witch

(12,558 posts)
32. Sounds About Right
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 04:48 PM
Jul 2025

People don't realize that HAMAS has a robust propaganda wing, backed by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Quds Brigade. (Al-Quds being the name for Jerusalem in Arabic.) They flooded TikTok, Instagram, Telegram, etc. with images of Palestinian kids being killed. They weaponized our empathy for the downtrodden. Especially those who are already marginalized in this country (LGBTQ+, African-Americans, etc.).

Additionally, you have to remember that Mossad is pretty social media savvy, too. I wouldn't put it past them to have been behind the "Genocide Joe" stuff in order to get Bibi's buddy TACO back into power.

Americans are getting victimized by propaganda and we don't even realize it.

Response to Lonestarblue (Original post)

David__77

(24,506 posts)
23. It is not surprising to me that Democrats are more favorable toward Cuba than Israel.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 10:58 AM
Jul 2025

As for Mamdani: I think he comes off an authentic.

https://m.

&pp=ygUbSXNyYWVsIHZpc2l0IG5ldyB5b3JrIG1heW9y

Samael13

(124 posts)
24. I know this will come off cold and unpopular.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 11:12 AM
Jul 2025

But whats going on between Israel and Palestine has never entered my thoughts when it comes to voting. We can cut off funding they'll continue killing each other. Making that a bigger voting issue over domestic policies for the average American is just shooting oneself in the foot.

Samael13

(124 posts)
26. Im okay with that or not doing so
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 11:35 AM
Jul 2025

Thats where im at I'm just not for making that a prime voting requisite

womanofthehills

(10,704 posts)
33. As a mom, grandma and great grandmother, these Palestinian kids enter my mind every day
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 05:07 PM
Jul 2025

They are on my phone every day. It’s so horrific to me that most of our Congress is ok with this.


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

drmeow

(5,920 posts)
30. This excellent article
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:28 PM
Jul 2025
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016408288

analyzes how policies towards Israel are twisting international law to be more accepting of atrocities in favor of the powerful. Even if people can't explain why the situation makes them to so mad (this placing of Israel outside what people consider the boundaries of International law) but they can tell that it is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

AloeVera

(3,988 posts)
31. Exactly. This article explains what I have been struggling to formulate and articulate..
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 04:31 PM
Jul 2025

Since forever, long before Oct 7th. It's the WRONGNESS of it that I can't comprehend is allowed and even denied. Thanks for linking.

womanofthehills

(10,704 posts)
34. People are posting on X - if people are not freaking out about the genocide Gaza
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 05:17 PM
Jul 2025

Will countries become even more cruel to others while people are complacent. Will social media become a place filled with images of dead kids, kids who are still alive screaming while their bodies are severely burned?Is this what our children will grow up watching? When I was a little kid, my mom had to take me out of the theater because I was crying so hard because Bambi died. The norm -our kids see mutilated and dead kids on their phones every day. The past two weeks have been super horrible- so many burnt kids and babies with no legs.

JustAnotherGen

(37,546 posts)
36. This will be American children in short order
Mon Jul 7, 2025, 10:24 AM
Jul 2025

They don't have to watch it - they will see it on the street.

It won't really HIT people until they start picking up the 100's of thousands of undocumented European Immigrants.

50K from Ireland alone.

Tom Homan (maga pub) just said that elderly and children can pick lettuce - rather he can't see why they canNOT pick lettuce.

Ohhh - we know which Americans are going to be enslaved to do it. We are maybe a year or two away from Black children being stolen and given to white people to work as slaves.

Or - Black folks - we need to arm ourselves and do what we gotta do and ask questions later.

And anyone saying this is kooky or extremist?

Slavery by any other name never went away. Also -America has done this before (we are pieces of worthless shit as a country) obviously doesn't know how Amerikkka has always worked for Black people.

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