General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAir India Preliminary Report - Yikes!
The preliminary report indicates that the engines were shut off three seconds after take-off
one of the pilots asked the other why he shut off fuel to the engines and the other replied that they didnt. But someone did. About 10 seconds later the engine fuel flow was switched back on, but there wasnt enough altitude for recovery.
Weird!!
It looks like one of the pilots switched off the fuel flow. Yikes!!!
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)A careful DU member, EX500rider, found that the fuel Run/Cutoff circuitry is analog. I think it might be monitored digitally even when controlled by hard-wiring.
WarGamer
(18,256 posts)Usually the most obvious conclusion is correct.
I mean that dog looking animal on the leash walking down Main Street was probably a dog...
But it could have been a holographic image of a dog... a small child in a dog costume or possibly a hallucination.
Or it's just a dog.
One of the pilots intentionally crashed the plane. Like German Wings...
Disaffected
(6,168 posts)Based on what, (other than that is solely a possibility)??
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Your example is simplistic and mundanely obvious. There is only one possibility.
The first hull loss of a 787 in over 15 years of flying is the opposite of simple and the only obvious thing about such an event is that it is complex.
https://www.indiatoday.in/the-lowdown/story/air-india-crash-boeing-787-8-ahmedabad-fuel-failure-scenarios-the-lowdown-2754763-2025-07-12
It explores four scenarios: Incompetence, technical failure, pilot sabotage, system sabotage. The pilots both seem to have been very stable with futures to look forward to and enjoy.
Scenario: One pilot deliberately moved both fuel control switches to cutoff with the intent to crash the aircraft, potentially as an act of suicide or murder-suicide, possibly driven by psychological distress or personal motives. The CVRs dialogue suggests one pilot was unaware of the action, consistent with a deliberate act by the other.
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Pilot Profiles: Sabharwal was a veteran instructor nearing retirement with no known issues. Kunder (32, 3,400 hours) was a qualified co-pilot with a clean record. Both passed breathalyzer tests and had no reported mental health concerns.
Historical Precedents: Germanwings Flight 9525 (2015): Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz locked out the captain and crashed the plane by setting the autopilot to descend, killing 150. Motive: concealed depression and suicidal tendencies.
EgyptAir Flight 990 (1999): Co-pilot Gameel al-Batouti likely crashed the plane by disengaging the autopilot and diving, killing 217. Motive unclear, possibly personal stressors.
Evidence For: The switch safeguards require deliberate action, as noted by experts like John Nance (BBC, July 2025) and Captain Steve in his Youtube podcast. Both argue that the one-second-apart movement matches manual operation.
CVR Evidence: The confusion and denial in the CVR suggest a unilateral act. The low altitude and rapid sequence (32 seconds to crash) make recovery from intentional sabotage logistically impossible.
Evidence Against: No known motive or mental health issues for either pilot, unlike the Germanwings or EgyptAir cases. Sabharwals retirement plans and Kunders clean record suggest stability.
The return of switches to RUN and one engines brief relight suggest a recovery attempt, inconsistent with suicidal intent.
WarGamer
(18,256 posts)Like I said... it looks like a dog... but could be a pet dingo.
I mean it's possible.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)WarGamer
(18,256 posts)Manually toggled each switch to cut-off position prompting someone in the cockpit to say "Why did you cut off?"
But I guess it's *possible that turbulence or an errant elbow knocked them into cutoff sequentially
Happy Hoosier
(9,404 posts)They are separate circuits. They were turned off in sequence.
And 9 seconds later the crew apparently turned them back on
. In sequence. Heard a former 787 engineer who said no such failure mode has ever been observed. So
not ruling it out, but Im
Extremely doubtful that it was a systems failure.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)msongs
(73,086 posts)malaise
(292,919 posts)So sad
Dave says
(5,330 posts)The fuel flow switches are analogue. In fact you have to lift the knob to clear metal and push it down until it clicks in place. Twice.
Theres a senior pilot with a podcast that covered it. With pictures. I suppose a naive pilot could have perceived they were off, pulled on the knobs and pushed them down to the off position. But on isnt usually positioned below the first button (perceived to be the off position).
The podcast I saw wasnt privy to the dialogue between the pilots, but likely there is a digital light - probably red and flashing - that comes on once there is no pressure on the tires (meaning they were airborne). That probably motivated one of the pilots to ask that question.
(The tire pressure thing was covered in the podcast. Ill look for it and post a link.)
On edit: could a naive pilot, during the checklist run, see the fuel switches on then, thinking neither he nor his fellow pilot have touched them yet, then pushed them to the opposite position, the off position. The RAT was engaged early, too, when the engines flamed out. That makes a racket! One pilot then nervously glanced down and asked the other if he shut fuel flow off. But it was too late.
.so what do I know (not much). The cockpit voice recorder will help analyze what went wrong. Sad for everyone involved.
Happy Hoosier
(9,404 posts)Id like to believe it was not deliberate. But as you said, hard, if not impossible, to do accidentally. And system failure seems very unlikely given the design. Just wow.
BigmanPigman
(54,593 posts)JI7
(93,234 posts)it off could have been the one that actually did it.