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Happy Hoosier

(9,404 posts)
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 04:09 PM Jul 2025

Air India Preliminary Report - Yikes!

The preliminary report indicates that the engines were shut off three seconds after take-off… one of the pilots asked the other why he shut off fuel to the engines and the other replied that they didn’t. But someone did. About 10 seconds later the engine fuel flow was switched back on, but there wasn’t enough altitude for recovery.

Weird!!

It looks like one of the pilots switched off the fuel flow. Yikes!!!

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)
1. Something may have happend on switch circuitry and pilots notified by display panel. Not necessarily malfeasance.
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 04:15 PM
Jul 2025

A careful DU member, EX500rider, found that the fuel Run/Cutoff circuitry is analog. I think it might be monitored digitally even when controlled by hard-wiring.

WarGamer

(18,256 posts)
5. Occam's Razor...
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 04:34 PM
Jul 2025

Usually the most obvious conclusion is correct.

I mean that dog looking animal on the leash walking down Main Street was probably a dog...

But it could have been a holographic image of a dog... a small child in a dog costume or possibly a hallucination.

Or it's just a dog.

One of the pilots intentionally crashed the plane. Like German Wings...

Disaffected

(6,168 posts)
6. "One of the pilots intentionally crashed the plane."
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 05:26 PM
Jul 2025

Based on what, (other than that is solely a possibility)??

Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)
10. Your example is not analogous. Distrust the obvious, which why we have courts and not lynchings.
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 06:55 PM
Jul 2025

Your example is simplistic and mundanely obvious. There is only one possibility.

The first hull loss of a 787 in over 15 years of flying is the opposite of simple and the only obvious thing about such an event is that it is complex.

https://www.indiatoday.in/the-lowdown/story/air-india-crash-boeing-787-8-ahmedabad-fuel-failure-scenarios-the-lowdown-2754763-2025-07-12

It explores four scenarios: Incompetence, technical failure, pilot sabotage, system sabotage. The pilots both seem to have been very stable with futures to look forward to and enjoy.

3. Intentional Pilot Sabotage

Scenario: One pilot deliberately moved both fuel control switches to ‘cutoff’ with the intent to crash the aircraft, potentially as an act of suicide or murder-suicide, possibly driven by psychological distress or personal motives. The CVR’s dialogue suggests one pilot was unaware of the action, consistent with a deliberate act by the other.
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Pilot Profiles: Sabharwal was a veteran instructor nearing retirement with no known issues. Kunder (32, 3,400 hours) was a qualified co-pilot with a clean record. Both passed breathalyzer tests and had no reported mental health concerns.

Historical Precedents: Germanwings Flight 9525 (2015): Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz locked out the captain and crashed the plane by setting the autopilot to descend, killing 150. Motive: concealed depression and suicidal tendencies.

EgyptAir Flight 990 (1999): Co-pilot Gameel al-Batouti likely crashed the plane by disengaging the autopilot and diving, killing 217. Motive unclear, possibly personal stressors.

Evidence For: The switch safeguards require deliberate action, as noted by experts like John Nance (BBC, July 2025) and Captain Steve in his Youtube podcast. Both argue that the one-second-apart movement matches manual operation.

CVR Evidence: The confusion and denial in the CVR suggest a unilateral act. The low altitude and rapid sequence (32 seconds to crash) make recovery from intentional sabotage logistically impossible.

Evidence Against: No known motive or mental health issues for either pilot, unlike the Germanwings or EgyptAir cases. Sabharwal’s retirement plans and Kunder’s clean record suggest stability.

The return of switches to RUN and one engine’s brief relight suggest a recovery attempt, inconsistent with suicidal intent.


The July 11, 2025, preliminary report on Air India Flight 171 confirms that the crash resulted from a dual-engine shutdown caused by both fuel control switches moving to CUTOFF, with pilot confusion recorded on the CVR. The Western media seems eager to promote the sabotage theory, hinting at mental health issues with one of the pilots. But no definitive evidence confirms intentional action by the pilots or ground personnel.

WarGamer

(18,256 posts)
12. We know how India will play it...
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 07:31 PM
Jul 2025

Like I said... it looks like a dog... but could be a pet dingo.

I mean it's possible.

?si=u18vBuCh-eiR7yB7

WarGamer

(18,256 posts)
15. because apparently... one of the two people in the cockpit, unless there was a third person?
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 07:58 PM
Jul 2025

Manually toggled each switch to cut-off position prompting someone in the cockpit to say "Why did you cut off?"

But I guess it's *possible that turbulence or an errant elbow knocked them into cutoff sequentially

Happy Hoosier

(9,404 posts)
7. Possible... but....
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 06:32 PM
Jul 2025

They are separate circuits. They were turned off in sequence.
And 9 seconds later the crew apparently turned them back on…. In sequence. Heard a former 787 engineer who said no such failure mode has ever been observed. So… not ruling it out, but Im
Extremely doubtful that it was a systems failure.

Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)
9. Yes, points like that deepen the mystery. Takes deep and complete investigations to untangle such mysteries. . . . . nt
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 06:35 PM
Jul 2025

Dave says

(5,330 posts)
4. Very difficult to be a pilot error
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 04:28 PM
Jul 2025

The fuel flow switches are analogue. In fact you have to lift the knob to clear metal and push it down until it clicks in place. Twice.

There’s a senior pilot with a podcast that covered it. With pictures. I suppose a naive pilot could have perceived they were off, pulled on the knobs and pushed them down to the off position. But “on” isn’t usually positioned below the first button (perceived to be the “off” position).

The podcast I saw wasn’t privy to the dialogue between the pilots, but likely there is a digital light - probably red and flashing - that comes on once there is no pressure on the tires (meaning they were airborne). That probably motivated one of the pilots to ask that question.

(The tire pressure thing was covered in the podcast. I’ll look for it and post a link.)

On edit: could a naive pilot, during the checklist run, see the fuel switches on then, thinking neither he nor his fellow pilot have touched them yet, then pushed them to the opposite position, the “off” position. The RAT was engaged early, too, when the engines flamed out. That makes a racket! One pilot then nervously glanced down and asked the other if he shut fuel flow off. But it was too late. ….so what do I know (not much). The cockpit voice recorder will help analyze what went wrong. Sad for everyone involved.

Happy Hoosier

(9,404 posts)
8. It's so weird....
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 06:34 PM
Jul 2025

I’d like to believe it was not deliberate. But as you said, hard, if not impossible, to do accidentally. And system failure seems very unlikely given the design. Just wow.

JI7

(93,234 posts)
14. Some people are saying the pilot that asked why the other shut
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 07:44 PM
Jul 2025

it off could have been the one that actually did it.

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