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The human brain is an imperfect instrument built up through long geological periods. Some of its levels of operation are more primitive and archaic than others. Our heads, modern man has discovered, may contain weird and irrational shadows out of the subhuman past shadows that under stress may elongate and fall darkly across the threshold of our rational lives. Man has lost the faith of the eighteenth century in the enlightening power of pure reason.
Loren Eiseley, Darwin's Century, Doubleday, 1958, page 345.
I had intended to start with something from Carl Sagan's book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, but was unable to locate it before the dog insisted I take her for a walk. A pleasant hour-long talk to myself followed as we explored the scents of an brisk, early November day. This essay is about that conversation, of course
.. but since an hour's walk tired me out, I grabbed the nearest Sagan book to my rocking chair, hence the quote from Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors.
Ever since watching ABC's National Geographic specials on Mary and Louis Leakey in the 1960s, I have been fascinated by the evolution of the human family tree. I have the 40-piece collection from a late friend who worked at Olduvai Gorge with the Leakey family. The advances in science have allowed for a much greater understanding of human evolution that sixty years ago. So two of my favorite activities is reading new reports, and watching documentaries and pod casts on the internet.
A few months ago, I saw one of a series of Gutsick Gibbon. I was stunned, as being old I can't tell the age of the younger generation, and assumed that the host was an amazing high school student. As it turns out, she is actually a bit older, and getting her PhD in the spring. She is brilliant and has a wonderful sense of humor which is important, since one of her hobbies is debating creationists.
It should come as no surprise that many creationists including those with a PhD are focused on attacking evolution with a combination of pseudo-science and terribly weak arguments. This is obviously part of the white christian nationalists' attempt to control education in schools and universities. While their written reports are easy to destroy, I noticed that on their pod casts, they come across in a glib, authority-like way. Hence, they fool gullible christian nationalist.
Many of them exist in a demon-haunted world, in which they view evil as something that exists outside of humanity, especially when they sin. Rather than say, Yeah, you caught me. I fucked up, they claim that Satan tempted them. They will often blame a female for tempting them, as well. I find that more offensive than their superstitious beliefs about demons. Strange that. I assume they met a women who was experienced in bed. But I'm unaware of their saying a man or boy tempted them. That's the devil's work.
Now, I don't think there is a literal place known as hell. I do think it can be a psychological state that can involve a wide range of factors. However, if the Universe has prepared a hell for the leaders of megachurches, I'm okay with that. I respect that would be the Universe's will, not mine. I'd advocate for incarceration now, though.
I listened to myself saying, Remember Jim and Tammy Baker. Now, I thought of Jim as repulsive, and Tammy pathetic. I remember hearing that Tammy spoke in tongues in her youth, which at best would have been a superstitious practice of the pre- Homo erectus ritual, considering the history of human language. These days, it's a shared bullshit for those of little minds. Not the type I want determining what science books teach, but perhaps a chapter in an abnormal psychology text book.
Being a robber baron megachurch leader was a competitive and cut-throat gig. That provided some entertainment back in the day. Today, of course, the felon-in-chief was comfortable in having two sexual offending religious leaders advising him. Maybe he was swapping stories with them.
To be fair, as pathetic a human being as Tammy was, there was something redeeming about her advocating for treating those with AIDS with respect and human decency. This, of course, resulted in the true demons the leaders of megachurches attacking her for the sinfulness that the prophet Jesus advocated. It was recognized as a threat to their prosperity theology.
By this time, the dog and I were coming up the driveway.
Easterncedar
(5,545 posts)H2O Man
(78,653 posts)They are sociopaths.
mopinko
(73,321 posts)i shd reread it. its been a while.
H2O Man
(78,653 posts)So many of Sagan's works are, in anything, more important today than when he wrote them.
wish we had his clear thinking in this mess.
then again, it wd pain him quite a bit.
His clear thinking is available to us. It is found in his books and in his lectures on youtube. I have a close friend who recently said that we need Martin Luther King, Jr. I said we have him, in his writings, books about him, and videos of his speaking on youtube. We have all of the wisdom of humanity available to us. It is only a matter of how deeply rooted it is in us now.
(Note: I, too, have no interest in Halloween these days, myself, other than to see my grandson dressed as Bat Man. He and his generation are the heroes this country needs today.)
mopinko
(73,321 posts)used to looooove it when my kids were small. it was the 1 time of the yr i used my art training.
alas, no grands, and even if i did, theyd b far away.
H2O Man
(78,653 posts)any holidays but for two grandchildren. One lives in Europe, and as much of a grinch I am about technology, I do like that I can communicate with her by "face-timing" on another site. (Note how I have mastered the lingo of the younger generations.)
My adult children like me to participate in Thanksgiving and Christmas. Three of the four respect that I do not want any presents -- including on my birthday. And I don't wait for a special day to give presents to the grandchildren. Being a grumpy old man holds responsibilities!
Martin Eden
(15,368 posts)I have no doubt those shadows are still part of the human psyche, and can perhaps explain some seemingly irrational behavior today such as attendance at megachurches and Trump rallies.
However, modern man also has education, science, and the capacity for rational critical thinking which has produced human beings like Carl Sagan.
Can the rise of megachurches and Trumpism -- which make their leaders and financiers very wealthy -- be explained entirely by the irrational shadows in our evolutionaty past?
Perhaps for many of the fools who give their money to charlatans and their votes to a sociopathic felon, but the malefactors of great wealth and power more likely have utilized their thinking skills to manipulate and fleece the masses of fools still driven by primitive perceptions.
Many on the "Christian" right in the middle class with education and lucrative careers should not be so easily fooled, so my question is to what extent is their behavior dictated by the ancient irrational shadows still lurking in our brains.
I'm not talking about religious faith in general. Many of mankind's greatest thinkers and humanitarians believed in God and practiced their faith.
But today's Christian right in America, in practice, reject the core teachings of Jesus their ostensible Lord. Oh, they may attend church and give to charity, but they are key enablers of the cruelty and destruction being perpetrated by our own government.
In my view, they are not prisoners of the irrational shadows. Rather, they utilize their capacity to rationalize and compartmentalize to justify their greed and bigotry under a cloak of religiosity.
They think they have purchased their ticket to heaven, so they have license to indulge their privilege while ignoring the responsibilities of truly moral citizens and human beings.
H2O Man
(78,653 posts)I tend to think that Sagan's 1977 classic "The Dragons of Eden" was correct about humankind's "fall from grace" was correct in that the growth of the frontal lobes resulted in our consciousness believing it was seperate from nature. This includes the seeing humans who were different as potentially dangerous "others." Recent finds in southeast Asia document, for example, the mixing of genetic materials between three distinct types of human beings, which tends to suggest that our type was the first that identified others as something different than us.
All modern humans are, to some extent, superstitious. While science has documented that, for example, a solar eclipse is not a supernatural event, we have a lucky pair of socks we wear when we are up to bat, etc. This would seem to have some ancient connection to the lizard brain's ritual instinct. Thus, the wearing of sacred socks when going to mass.
Education and science indeed provide a means of rising above being limited to being a clever ape that, to quote Neil Young, live in a box at the top of the stairs. Yet all education in the sciences has both the potential for good or bad, positive or negative. How these are to be used depends entirely on human evolution ..... and that is only the evolution of human's consciousness. We are at a point where no evolution is possible with the unconscious mind. That will not -- in fact, cannot -- happen unconsciously. Without that, we are clever apes driving our automobiles towards extinction.
I am not anti-religion. Some of my best friends are religious. Heck, most of them, actually. I've enjoyed participating in a wide range of their religious ceremonies over the decades. Some of the most outstanding individuals I've known were religious, with Daniel and Phillip Berrigan coming to mind. Yet, like science, religion can be used for good or bad, positive or negative. And I see a rise in the negative with the white christian nationalist movement, which calls upon the unconscious negatives of the human potential.
Martin Eden
(15,368 posts)Also that religion and science can be used for good or bad. The capacity of mankind to drive ourselves to extinction reminds me of my favorite lines from Epitaph by King Crimson:
Knowledge is a deadly friend
If no one sets the rules
The fate of all mankind I see
Is in the hands of fools
H2O Man
(78,653 posts)that knowledge/science's benefits depend upon the level of being of those who have access to it. That this is why despite the amazing things that have been discovered, humankind has not learned a wholesome control of technology in many areas. Obviously, in terms of medical science, there are absolutely outstanding advances, yet the low level of being -- despite education -- of the maga party seeks to deny human beings health care. And SNAP benefits, etc. That is the same low level that uses science to create weapons that could kill millions of people, and remain self-righteous christians or any other religion these days.
I am pleased to see an increasing number of church people calling out the evil of this administration. As always, I use "evil" in the psychological context, rather than a religious sense that it exists outside of individual human beings. "Evil" in the sense that it makes good people sick to hear about, such as in the recent example of Brian Kohberger, who is simply a variation of Stephen Miller. Both are reptilian, in the bad sense.
Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2025, 01:03 PM - Edit history (1)
So much depends on the "level of being."
Wealth and power is mostly in the hands of the psychologically/morally corrupt. Overcoming that is the challenge of our time.
malaise
(292,926 posts)Ding ding we have a winner
Thoughtful as ever
What a coincidence that the very people who seek to exalt themselves and live in luxury while preaching the very opposite of what the Master -- as Rubin called Jesus -- end up exposed as the worst perverts in society.
Anyhow, the DU community has been provided with a transcript that is court-worthy of the things I think about while walking the dog. I hope that things are safe and improving on your island. These storms are intensely violent. Luckily, there is a peaceful "storm" making its way to the US in the 2026 and 2028 elections. And, before I forget to mention it, we will witness the federal courts holding ..... including, though at a slower pace, the Supreme Court. I can say that at least two of the current injustices are concerned about the actions of the felon & co, and this will be expressed in upcoming court decisions.
Kid Berwyn
(23,031 posts)Guy was all in on mineral extraction, even enlisting the locals.
Know your BFEE: Pat Robertson Incorporated a Gold Mine with a Terrorist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2397004
Then he found Rupert Murdoch who shelled out more than a billion and a half for his Christian Broadcasting Nutwork.
H2O Man
(78,654 posts)to the Bakers' rise in power. Small world.
In more recent times, Jim Baker's "gospel" involved q-anon.