General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAbout the Venezuelan boats
For reference, I have been ocean sailing for most of my life. I've sailed the Atlantic and Caribbean as crew and have logged over 10,000 miles navigating my own boats. Over the years, I've learned quite a bit about small crafts in the ocean and sailing in general. The oceans are vast, lonely and dangerous. The blue water is no place for the inexperienced.
The boats targeted by Trump's lackeys are not ocean-going vessels. They are open boats meaning they do not have cabins nor storage holds. They are not designed for the wind and wave conditions found in the open ocean. Even with superior seamanship, these voyages would be foolish and dangerous. The boats are powered by outboard motors that lack the capacity to traverse those distances in the open ocean. They are designed for coastal fishing meaning they don't go too far offshore, perhaps only 20 miles or so.
Consider that the distance between Caracas, Venezuela and Miami is about 1,400 miles. These boats, would require fuel tanks that take up too much space on such small boats. Where would the cargo be stored? In an open boat, the drugs would be exposed to the elements as well as being vulnerable to being tossed overboard by the ocean conditions. Refueling enroute would expose the so-called smugglers to too much scrutiny as they traverse different countries on the way to the U.S. Further, if the boat could travel at 20 mph, it would take 70 hours or 3 days nonstop. That is unrealistic and requires a rotating crew, superior boat-handling, navigation and seamanship, skills that most coastal fishermen would probably not have learned.
If these boats are truly operated by drug-runners, the "narco-terrorists" are really stupid and the risks to their cargo and lives far exceed the possible profits from the small quantities these boats could carry. Additionally, why would the September 2nd boat have had 11 people on board? That doesn't make any sense because that many people take up space and consumables like food and water.and we know that drug kingpins want to maximize their profit potential.
In fact, many drug runners build "submarines" that travel just below the surface of the water making them difficult to detect. These vessels have far more cargo space than an open fishing boat. Importantly, they are designed for the distances and conditions required for such voyages. Here are two videos that explain these vessels:
Trump and Co. are on a murderous, illegal, unethical and performative fool's errand in order to look tough while accomplishing nothing. Watching boats being blown up and people being killed gives them visceral thrills all while they sit in their air-conditioned offices thousands of miles away from the sites of their crimes. The military personnel who enable these acts are in untenable situations. Trump is abusing our military, its people and our national values.
As usual, Trump and Republicans are presuming Americans are stupid who cannot evaluate these situations intelligently and logically. Like the fool Tom Cotton, they assume we are so dumb we won't believe our own eyes.
Walleye
(43,845 posts)What really pisses me off is the two people who were shipwrecked probably thought the American plane was coming around to save them. Who the fuck are we?
PJMcK
(24,756 posts)The missiles were laser guided from Trinidad, I believe. The video imagery was from drones.
ETA: I agree with you that the fishermen had no idea what hit them.
Walleye
(43,845 posts)Im tired of hearing these guys called brave Warriors when theres nobody shooting at them and theyre not really in harms way.
Johonny
(25,503 posts)Or less worth of boats. Just economically, this makes no fucking sense.
Emile
(40,668 posts)gab13by13
(31,263 posts)is it a possibility that they were going to Trinidad to load the drugs on to a bigger ship?
I have read an article that flat out states the cocaine is very likely going to Europe.
usedtobedemgurl
(1,931 posts)Because if the gov had proof there was cocaine, they would be shouting it from the rooftops when words like war crimes and murder are mentioned. They are not shy. If the article did not say anything about the little fishing boats having cocaine, I am try I g to figure out your point. I have a brain injury, so sometimes I need help understanding.
gab13by13
(31,263 posts)sometimes it is hard to decipher.
I read "an" article that stated that cocaine from Venezuela is going to Europe, no matter how it is shipped. I posted "the" article I read.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/drug-boats-venezuela-are-mainly-moving-cocaine-europe-not-fentanyl-us-rcna244583
Must read
Rec. Rec. Rec
that decent fisherman with speedboats like this are dying. I mean, really. They are just fisherman and this is so evil
KS Toronado
(23,064 posts)
travelingthrulife
(4,463 posts)"Does anyone actually fish anymore?" Smirk. Smirk.
Emile
(40,668 posts)They build those subs in the jungle.
NJCher
(42,512 posts)Some very smart people design and engineer these vessels and it appears most are for one time use.
I was in suspense as they told the story of each sub.
I will never understand how anyone could choose to do this with their life.
Emile
(40,668 posts)PJMcK
(24,756 posts)OldBaldy1701E
(10,225 posts)Oh, that's not true.
They are making an excuse to go in and claim their oil and other natural resources, and after they 'liberate' the country, they will make sure to secure those assets before drawing down the occupation.
But, you are correct about the 'visceral thrill'. It is one reason why I want them all to be put into Gitmo. Watching those animals finally being treated as such will certainly do wonders for my mental state.
travelingthrulife
(4,463 posts)PTSD...Trump style.
gab13by13
(31,263 posts)it's about getting the military to murder people. We are not at war with Venezuela but the military continues to murder people.
If this murder is allowed to continue the military will start murdering people in the United States.
These aren't war crimes seeing as we aren't at war. It is up to our justice department to prosecute these people for murder, which isn't going to happen, quite the Catch 22.
NH Ethylene
(31,294 posts)NJCher
(42,512 posts)The logic and common sense on this topic needs a national airing.
Emile
(40,668 posts)MLWR
(782 posts)bears more similatities to the German nazi party of the 1930s than to the 20th century version of the Republican Party. It's clear to me that these monsters are just out to satisfy their blood lust, playing their version of "cowboys and Indians" in the Caribbean Sea. This is horrific and monstrous, not to mention heartless, soulless, indecent, unethical, immoral, murderous and completely illegal.
ms liberty
(10,978 posts)gab13by13
(31,263 posts)otherwise the military would be more constrained.
It is murder.
LT Barclay
(3,173 posts)president will ship them to the ICC rather than risk acquittal or future pardon here.
gab13by13
(31,263 posts)to not be a politician, I want him/her to be someone like Malcolm Nance.
LT Barclay
(3,173 posts)will be trying to resist any effort to re-establish anything resembling order. And we have to contend with a SCOTUS that is hell-bent on either intentionally destroying the country, or are agents for some other power either national or financial. Personally I'll vote, march, support, fight for anyone who will commit to giving the pyscho 6 a week to resign or have federal marshals march the out of their chambers and publicly strip them of their robes for betraying the country.
littlemissmartypants
(31,681 posts)He apparently thinks we're all as dumb as he is.
Far winds and following seas, PJMcK.
Great post. ❤️
stollen
(1,046 posts)I've asked as well, why is a SEAL team being used for this murderous act on an outboard motorboat?
Whoever gave the orders didn't want survivors telling tales. That would be Trump.
Joinfortmill
(20,117 posts)MaineNative
(74 posts)than meets the eyes, and it could be rare earth minerals using this as a pretext to attack and gain control over the country.
travelingthrulife
(4,463 posts)It's a longtime grudge. Trump intends to steal it for them.
Wild blueberry
(8,135 posts)Thank you.
Martin Eden
(15,367 posts)Why hasn't the mainstream media stressed that these boats are simply inadequate for transporting a cargo of drugs to the nearest point in the USA?
EX500rider
(12,181 posts)Outboard powered fishing boats (mostly center consoles) here in Fla regularly go up to 150 miles offshore and with multiple outboards they cruise at anywhere from 30 to 60+ knots.
The drug running skiffs most likely meet a mother ship offshore or refuel from locals in small coves etc, but yes, highly unlikely they are going all the way to the US.
travelingthrulife
(4,463 posts)drugs. We are the market. Maybe if they made life less of a rollercoaster in this country, we might not need so many drugs.
PJMcK
(24,756 posts)The fishing boats in Venezuela are not the high performance boats found along the Florida coast. From the videos weve seen as well as the boats Ive seen in the Caribbean, the targeted boats are single engine crafts.
Still, your point has validity. Regarding sail vs. power boats, Ill quote a marina manager I encountered in Ft. Lauderdale: Were all on the same water.
EX500rider
(12,181 posts)Which besides the lack of fishing gear also points to drug running as local fishermen in Latin America can't afford multiple outboards as the average price for a new 300 HP Mercury outboard generally ranges from $23,000 to $32,000.
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PJMcK
(24,756 posts)Do you believe the Trump administration explanations?
1,400 miles of open ocean is still formidable.
ETA: Even if the boats had multiple motors, it would require significant amounts of fuel. Theres not enough room for fuel and cargo.
Why were there 11 people on the 9/2 boat?
EX500rider
(12,181 posts)(ie people smuggler)
Although I have seen many plastic most likely fuel drums on them giving them some extended range
PJMcK
(24,756 posts)Interesting. I hadnt thought of that. The boat would still need a lot of fuel.
Thanks for the dialog. You make detailed insights. Much appreciated. Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
gulliver
(13,720 posts)I think your post supports the idea that the drug boats stuff is just a pretext. Trump wants Maduro out. I think the Venezuelan people do too. They voted him out, but he stayed.
travelingthrulife
(4,463 posts)nationalized their oil.
EX500rider
(12,181 posts)How would the US "steal" their oil? Even if we deposed Maduro the next govt would still control Venz's reserves.
gulliver
(13,720 posts)The people of Venezuela voted out Maduro, but he decided to stay anyway. Does that mean that Maduro stole the oil? If he is deposed, why wouldn't Trump put the guy who actually won the election in office (Gonzalez)? That would seem to be the pro-democracy thing to do, and I really don't see how Trump would get away with doing anything else.
multigraincracker
(37,017 posts)Need an excuse to take their resources.
EX500rider
(12,181 posts)..are their any examples of the US taking (forcibly and unpaid for) another countries resources in the last 50 years?
returnee
(824 posts).but its been clear from the outset it was all bullshit. They are all liars, all the time. I assume everything they say is a lie until proven otherwise.