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malaise

(296,462 posts)
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:01 PM 16 hrs ago

Oh My! The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador With the Avignon Papacy

https://www.thelettersfromleo.com/p/the-pentagon-threatened-pope-leo

[UPDATE at 4:33 PM EDT: Letters from Leo can now independently confirm The Free Press report that the meeting took place — and that some Vatican officials were so alarmed by the Pentagon’s tactics that they shelved plans for Pope Leo XIV to visit the United States later this year.

Other officials in the Vatican saw the Pentagon’s reference to an Avignon papacy as a threat to use military force against the Holy See.]

In January, behind closed doors at the Pentagon, Under Secretary of War for Policy Elbridge Colby summoned Cardinal Christophe Pierre — Pope Leo XIV’s then-ambassador to the United States — and delivered a lecture.

“America,” Colby and his colleagues told the cardinal, “has the military power to do whatever it wants in the world. The Catholic Church had better take its side.”

As tempers rose, one U.S. official reached for a fourteenth-century weapon and invoked the Avignon Papacy, the period when the French Crown used military force to bend the bishop of Rome to its will.——————
Nicole mentioned this

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Oh My! The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador With the Avignon Papacy (Original Post) malaise 16 hrs ago OP
WTF. mercuryblues 16 hrs ago #1
Well there goes Italy malaise 16 hrs ago #6
And all the Catholics of the world BonnieJW 14 hrs ago #45
the anti catholicism of these maga know nothings is in their dna. rampartd 10 hrs ago #106
And much of Latin America. Wednesdays 11 hrs ago #102
Much of Western Europe... róisín_dubh 9 hrs ago #110
To the right wing Evangelicals, the pope is the devil incarnate and Catholicism is an abomination. flashman13 14 hrs ago #55
Who says we'd even want to go to such an - um - "event"? calimary 14 hrs ago #70
You must have grown up in a different era than I did. Ms. Toad 13 hrs ago #76
I dated a Jewish girl in high school and went to synagogue with her family a couple of times. flashman13 13 hrs ago #85
The rest of us were all friendly and had a good time at each other's churches. Ms. Toad 12 hrs ago #92
I can vouch for that. Wednesdays 11 hrs ago #96
Yep. Catholic here. Oh boy did we obey. calimary 9 hrs ago #112
I guess the point is that it was made clear they wren't invited. I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound very christian. flashman13 13 hrs ago #84
They're in league with the antiChrist B.See 12 hrs ago #91
Another regime change scheme? Marcuse 11 hrs ago #95
Trump would do as Henry VIII did if he thought he could get away with it. hunter 1 hr ago #119
So is Trump going to bomb the Vatican? SunSeeker 16 hrs ago #2
It's definitely an implied threat. ananda 15 hrs ago #35
And, does he want to move the seat of the papacy to the White House? ananda 15 hrs ago #38
Wonder what Catholic convert JD Vance thinks of all that... SunSeeker 12 hrs ago #93
don't give him any ideas plz vapor2 14 hrs ago #59
I hope the fucking Catholics that voted for the tsf BlueKota 16 hrs ago #3
Those Catholics hate their Pope. Other Catholics love their Pope. mucifer 16 hrs ago #5
But do they love Whiskey Pete going all "30 Years War" at the Pentagon? paleotn 16 hrs ago #14
Many of them like Whiskey Pete BlueKota 15 hrs ago #37
Exactly! ybbor 15 hrs ago #25
I really admire this Pope. BlueKota 15 hrs ago #32
Not raised Catholic, but I'm definitely impressed with Leo. ShazzieB 14 hrs ago #49
I was raised Catholic too. Dulcinea 13 hrs ago #77
I agree. These two most recent Popes to me represent BlueKota 13 hrs ago #82
I agree. As a recovering ex Catholic I do like.. yourout 11 hrs ago #103
Trumpist Conservative Catholics will never hear about this incident. maxsolomon 16 hrs ago #8
Not a chance. I'd have probably never heard of it without DU underpants 15 hrs ago #33
Yah, my whole damn family voted for the orange piece of shit BECAUSE OF HIS ABORTION STANCE!!!!!! a kennedy 15 hrs ago #27
yeppers - got some friends like that rurallib 15 hrs ago #29
It's so ironic how many fell for his anti-abortion act. ShazzieB 14 hrs ago #51
I wonder how many he paid for over the years. n/t SheilaAnn 14 hrs ago #63
Right? ShazzieB 14 hrs ago #67
They don't even care if he believes JBTaurus83 10 hrs ago #105
Do they know how many abortions OhioBack2Blue 14 hrs ago #66
Indeed, the Bible says nothing about abortion, except for a how-to. Wednesdays 11 hrs ago #98
I gotcha beat, I think... slightlv 14 hrs ago #71
I'm quite sure Trump doesn't really give 2 hoots about abortion... 3catwoman3 12 hrs ago #90
+1 area51 9 hrs ago #109
He actually had Erik aborted RVN VET71 2 hrs ago #117
TSF and crew had better get ready for some smiting. Sneederbunk 16 hrs ago #4
Guess they really don't like Leo's public statements wnylib 16 hrs ago #7
This was January so they must really be pissed with his comments malaise 16 hrs ago #9
Thats probably why hes been making them, Chicago Pope cares more about the Cubs than he does their threats lol. Volaris 14 hrs ago #52
Agree malaise 14 hrs ago #56
I can't help but being afraid for his safety MustLoveBeagles 15 hrs ago #36
Dear Goddess, these people are beyond deranged and dangerous. niyad 16 hrs ago #10
I just caught the tail end of her segment before the break..what's going on? I need to read up on the Avignon Papacy Deuxcents 16 hrs ago #11
need to read up on the Avignon Papacy malaise 16 hrs ago #15
Avignon Papacy, in a nutshell: Wednesdays 11 hrs ago #99
Omg what a manipulative bunch of degenerates. Passages 16 hrs ago #12
Nobody expects 3825-87867 16 hrs ago #13
There's an almost full bingo card of pissed off religious groups that tsf is about to complete. rubbersole 16 hrs ago #16
Colby is NOT . . . AverageOldGuy 16 hrs ago #17
He is a nepo baby, a grandson of one-time CIA head William Colby. n/t valleyrogue 10 hrs ago #108
Nepo Borgia baby yorkster 3 hrs ago #114
If only there were some super secret Vatican police force PuraVidaDreamin 16 hrs ago #18
The church has had or does have secret people who can take care of a situation that you're alluding to. Trueblue1968 13 hrs ago #86
The Avignon Papacy AverageOldGuy 15 hrs ago #19
Thanks..got to reading this history, too. I'm wondering just why the pentagon is bringing this up now Deuxcents 15 hrs ago #21
Thank you AverageOldGuy malaise 15 hrs ago #22
Thanks MustLoveBeagles 15 hrs ago #41
And now: Recently-converted Catholic JD Vance says he will "look into the report" AverageOldGuy 15 hrs ago #20
Well, this just answered my question..thanks Deuxcents 15 hrs ago #23
He has a pre-campaign book out. It has a church on the cover. underpants 14 hrs ago #47
A church he had never even been in, much less attended. niyad 14 hrs ago #62
A church that's not even Roman Catholic. nt Wednesdays 11 hrs ago #101
He looks like a young Jonathan Winters. llmart 13 hrs ago #74
How long until VD Jance renounces Catholicism & goes full fundie? Dulcinea 13 hrs ago #83
Makes sense to me... littlemissmartypants 15 hrs ago #24
Going to war with the Pope. Irish_Dem 15 hrs ago #26
Steve Bannon's wet dream no_hypocrisy 15 hrs ago #28
They had a "fourteenth-century weapon" handy? underpants 15 hrs ago #30
Thanks for the info MustLoveBeagles 14 hrs ago #43
I think it's long past due to excommunicate many of these right-wing fascist Catholics in America. Crowman2009 15 hrs ago #31
Like that will scare him. Bob doesn't strike me as the type to suffer fools. He also strikes me as the type Scrivener7 15 hrs ago #34
The forces of darkness have thrown down the gauntlet. patphil 15 hrs ago #39
Jeezus. Impeach him! Joinfortmill 15 hrs ago #40
Well, that's some crazy shit right there. MerryBlooms 14 hrs ago #42
Say what? Cirsium 14 hrs ago #44
Welp, for those who thought this administration left the rails and went full wackaloon in the last few weeks, Emrys 14 hrs ago #46
Yup. God help us all!! blue-wave 14 hrs ago #50
I mean, would you look at that upholstery: Emrys 14 hrs ago #58
Jay Dee would blue-wave 13 hrs ago #72
How many American Cardinals blue-wave 14 hrs ago #48
I'm confident there will be not a word of this on EWTN DBoon 14 hrs ago #53
The Avignon Papacy could be second pope Buzz cook 14 hrs ago #54
Well, it's high time the Antipope put in an appearance Emrys 14 hrs ago #65
Kick! red dog 1 14 hrs ago #57
Didn't the Pope snub Vance on his last visit? vapor2 14 hrs ago #60
Yes malaise 14 hrs ago #64
So now Trump is going to bomb the Vatican? DFW 14 hrs ago #61
Another link malaise 13 hrs ago #79
To match the elbow-bending tendencies of Pete Hegseth, Mblaze 14 hrs ago #68
They are all drunk on power. Figarosmom 14 hrs ago #69
Pentagon Threatened the Pope After He Criticized Trump LetMyPeopleVote 13 hrs ago #73
Good link malaise 13 hrs ago #75
Remember when Trump dressed up as the Pope? delisen 13 hrs ago #78
THIS malaise 13 hrs ago #80
Well, I thought they were all devout Christians.....nope it's all cosplay. spanone 13 hrs ago #81
The best news is that the pope malaise 13 hrs ago #87
Six of the current Nine Supreme Court Justices are Catholic. mackdaddy 12 hrs ago #88
How many of those six are Opus Dei? Wednesdays 10 hrs ago #104
Omg BlueWaveNeverEnd 12 hrs ago #89
NAZI diplomacy, but not so classy. Kid Berwyn 11 hrs ago #94
I can't believe this. The Trump Administration doesn't know that much history. n/t malthaussen 11 hrs ago #97
I think trump just wants KT2000 11 hrs ago #100
This is outrageously insane even for the Trump administration. valleyrogue 10 hrs ago #107
Post removed Post removed 9 hrs ago #111
I believe that Mierda47 has secured a seat in hell. n/t aggiesal 7 hrs ago #113
I want earthly punishment malaise 2 hrs ago #115
I want both. n/t aggiesal 38 min ago #123
LOL malaise 29 min ago #124
an under secretary "summons" an ambassador? and not at the state dept?/ rampartd 2 hrs ago #116
All our worst nightmares about the influence of violent video malaise 2 hrs ago #118
I didn't think anyone in Trumps administration was even that smart. BradBo 1 hr ago #120
These people are fucking crazy. This is Steven Miller the whole way. BradBo 1 hr ago #121
Or Bannon malaise 1 hr ago #122
Holy crap! PatSeg 9 min ago #125
Yep malaise 7 min ago #126

Wednesdays

(22,698 posts)
102. And much of Latin America.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 10:51 PM
11 hrs ago

And Ireland. Continental Europe, maybe not so much, but there are enough devout Catholics there that it won't be good for him there, either.

róisín_dubh

(12,341 posts)
110. Much of Western Europe...
Thu Apr 9, 2026, 12:22 AM
9 hrs ago

save for the knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing far right pretty much despise the US leadership at this stage anyway. No one is happy with Vance fucking around in Hungary either

flashman13

(2,436 posts)
55. To the right wing Evangelicals, the pope is the devil incarnate and Catholicism is an abomination.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:23 PM
14 hrs ago

You might have missed that Catholics were pointedly told they were not welcome at Hogsbreath's Easter service.

calimary

(90,165 posts)
70. Who says we'd even want to go to such an - um - "event"?
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:52 PM
14 hrs ago

ANY Catholic Church would have already flung their doors wide open.

ALL are welcome at The Lord’s table. Or at least that’s what I learned in Catholic school. Jesus forgave sinners as He hung on the cross, near death. Why would He leave anybody out, now?

Ms. Toad

(38,674 posts)
76. You must have grown up in a different era than I did.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:16 PM
13 hrs ago

A number of us were curious about other denominations and decided to attend each other's services. The Catholics were forbidden from attending any other services, and it was made clear we weren't welcome to attend their (even though none of ours (Quaker, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran) forbid it)

flashman13

(2,436 posts)
85. I dated a Jewish girl in high school and went to synagogue with her family a couple of times.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:48 PM
13 hrs ago

People there went out of their way to make me feel welcome.

Ms. Toad

(38,674 posts)
92. The rest of us were all friendly and had a good time at each other's churches.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 09:27 PM
12 hrs ago

It was just the Catholics who both excluded others and were not allowed to attend other churches. This was in the 60s and early 70s. By the late 70s/early 80s it had changed, at least as to welcoming others to attend their services.

Wednesdays

(22,698 posts)
96. I can vouch for that.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 10:28 PM
11 hrs ago

My father was a devout Catholic, and when he went to a Jesuit high school, he suggested to the music director that they should sing Bach's St. Matthew's Passion in choir. The choir director was horrified. Needless to say, Bach was forbidden at the school.

Times have changed since then, however.

calimary

(90,165 posts)
112. Yep. Catholic here. Oh boy did we obey.
Thu Apr 9, 2026, 12:34 AM
9 hrs ago

Yeah. You didn’t talk in church. And you went to MASS. PERIOD. You did NOT investigate other faiths’ services. What I remember is that there was a bit more relaxed attitude toward that one. There were wealthy people and famous people whose kids went to that school. And a lot of those parents had all kinds of mixed marriages.

And on top of that, a close friend of mine in the older grades was a Greek Orthodox kid. First time I a) heard of that religion to begin with, and b) actually knew somebody who subscribed to that religion.

flashman13

(2,436 posts)
84. I guess the point is that it was made clear they wren't invited. I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound very christian.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:41 PM
13 hrs ago

B.See

(8,546 posts)
91. They're in league with the antiChrist
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 09:16 PM
12 hrs ago

These cultists would shoot their own mothers if Trump/maga told them to.

Think that's an exaggeration? Ask that Texas couple whose unvaccinated daughter died of measles this time last year.

No regrets. God's will they said.

Sick.

hunter

(40,728 posts)
119. Trump would do as Henry VIII did if he thought he could get away with it.
Thu Apr 9, 2026, 08:24 AM
1 hr ago

He'd ban the Catholic Church, seize their assets, and declare himself God's chosen leader of the new Church of America.

ananda

(35,211 posts)
35. It's definitely an implied threat.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:51 PM
15 hrs ago

Pope Leo is wise to stay out of the USA right now.

ananda

(35,211 posts)
38. And, does he want to move the seat of the papacy to the White House?
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:53 PM
15 hrs ago

Remember that picture of Trump as the pope?

BlueKota

(5,379 posts)
3. I hope the fucking Catholics that voted for the tsf
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:24 PM
16 hrs ago

are proud of themselves now the Catholic Church is being threatened.

paleotn

(22,281 posts)
14. But do they love Whiskey Pete going all "30 Years War" at the Pentagon?
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:39 PM
16 hrs ago

During holy week? No service for Catholics of any stripe. Protestants only.

BlueKota

(5,379 posts)
37. Many of them like Whiskey Pete
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:51 PM
15 hrs ago

don't even consider Catholics
Christian. A Jewish friend of my sister asked her, if she considered herself a Christian. She said "no", that she may not go to church, but she still considers herself a Catholic. She said, and I agree we in no way want to be mistaken with the perverted Maga brand of Christianity.

ybbor

(1,754 posts)
25. Exactly!
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:14 PM
15 hrs ago

I’m sure my “super religious” Catholic brother and sister-in-law hate the pope because he actually follows the words of JC, therefore, he is woke! They’re, meaning a lot of my “holier than thou” family members and exclassmates, total hypocrites who, obviously, were reading a different bible than I was, and believe the “American Jesus” would think their dear leader is righteous in his actions against the horrible Muslim infidels. It’s the new Crusades, don’t cha know. 🤮

BlueKota

(5,379 posts)
32. I really admire this Pope.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:42 PM
15 hrs ago

For the first time in a long time, I am proud of the Church I was raised in.

ShazzieB

(22,658 posts)
49. Not raised Catholic, but I'm definitely impressed with Leo.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:16 PM
14 hrs ago

I could feel my temper rising when I read about Schlump threatening the Vatican.

Dulcinea

(10,134 posts)
77. I was raised Catholic too.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:28 PM
13 hrs ago

I liked Pope Francis & I like Pope Leo. They represent what Christianity should be.

BlueKota

(5,379 posts)
82. I agree. These two most recent Popes to me represent
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:38 PM
13 hrs ago

what was written in the New Testament. While these Magat religious zealots seem to want to go back to the eye for an eye Old Testament mentality. In my opinion they're trying to eliminate Jesus Christ from Christianity.

yourout

(8,837 posts)
103. I agree. As a recovering ex Catholic I do like..
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 10:57 PM
11 hrs ago

Francis and Leo.
My Mrs is a Lutheran (the evangelical brand not the mean ones that won't allow women as clergy)
And I occasionally go with her and they have a very good female pastor and if I was going to be a regular it would be there.
Very welcoming and inclusive.

maxsolomon

(38,812 posts)
8. Trumpist Conservative Catholics will never hear about this incident.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:33 PM
16 hrs ago

Not in their Fox Bubbles.

They wouldn't understand the threat even if they did.

underpants

(196,653 posts)
33. Not a chance. I'd have probably never heard of it without DU
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:44 PM
15 hrs ago

They summoned the Vatican’s ambassador….to browbeat him.

a kennedy

(36,030 posts)
27. Yah, my whole damn family voted for the orange piece of shit BECAUSE OF HIS ABORTION STANCE!!!!!!
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:23 PM
15 hrs ago

AND THAT WAS IT. THE ABORTION STANCE!!!! Needless to say I DON’T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF TIME FOR THEM. 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬

ShazzieB

(22,658 posts)
51. It's so ironic how many fell for his anti-abortion act.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:20 PM
14 hrs ago

I dont believe for a movement that he gives a fat rat's ass about abortion, but SO many people fell for that.

JBTaurus83

(1,472 posts)
105. They don't even care if he believes
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 11:20 PM
10 hrs ago

As long as he is an effective Trojan Horse for their hellhole version of Earth.

OhioBack2Blue

(126 posts)
66. Do they know how many abortions
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:38 PM
14 hrs ago

....that orange walking diarrhea has caused himself??? Dozens.
2. Rich women will always be able to abort.
3. The Bible itself does not explicitly mention or forbid abortion. Full stop.

slightlv

(7,805 posts)
71. I gotcha beat, I think...
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:56 PM
14 hrs ago

my brother and his entire family voted for the POS because of GUNS! Like, the Democrats ever did anything that negated the "free for all, wild west" environment around guns in the U.S. But they'll tell you tooth and nail that if Democrats ever got into office they'd take away everybody's guns. Stupid. Sis feels like I do... so politics, even just names, are off limits when Bro is near, which isn't too often. He's tried to reach out a few times to us since our Mom died last year, but he's even more of a loner than I am. We try to welcome him as much as possible in order to keep some semblance of the family together, but it's hard and not real comfy. LOL! Since trump put himself in the Oval this time around, we've not heard one word from Bro about this admin. Something tells me he may be coming around to our way of thinking, since trump is now threatening Medicare, SS, etc., and my brother just started drawing his. Funny how that works, eh?

3catwoman3

(29,470 posts)
90. I'm quite sure Trump doesn't really give 2 hoots about abortion...
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 09:11 PM
12 hrs ago

...and just fakes it because it's a vote getter.

RVN VET71

(3,197 posts)
117. He actually had Erik aborted
Thu Apr 9, 2026, 07:37 AM
2 hrs ago

But, as saith John Cleese in The Holy Grail, "He got better."

And more about Avignon: in 1409 there were actually 3 popes. What a mess. One on Rome, one in Avignon, one in Pisa -- causing the tower to lean.

wnylib

(26,122 posts)
7. Guess they really don't like Leo's public statements
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:30 PM
16 hrs ago

about US policies. I hope that Leo is not intimidated into silence. The US military would refuse to carry out orders against the Vatican, just as they recently did in the threats against Iran.

malaise

(296,462 posts)
9. This was January so they must really be pissed with his comments
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:34 PM
16 hrs ago

These past few days.

Volaris

(11,724 posts)
52. Thats probably why hes been making them, Chicago Pope cares more about the Cubs than he does their threats lol.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:20 PM
14 hrs ago

Also, I fucking PROMISE YOU that 'conversation'...came from that wannabe crusader nut Hegseth; this meeting was his idea.

Deuxcents

(27,065 posts)
11. I just caught the tail end of her segment before the break..what's going on? I need to read up on the Avignon Papacy
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:37 PM
16 hrs ago

And what the history of that is. What arrogance from the Pentagon

malaise

(296,462 posts)
15. need to read up on the Avignon Papacy
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:39 PM
16 hrs ago

Join the line😀
My mum would have been good for this one.

Wednesdays

(22,698 posts)
99. Avignon Papacy, in a nutshell:
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 10:44 PM
11 hrs ago

The French king, ca. 14th century, didn't like the pope. So he merely appointed his own pope, who resided in Avignon.

Passages

(4,202 posts)
12. Omg what a manipulative bunch of degenerates.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:37 PM
16 hrs ago

See that, a new low almost daily.

Good on the Pope and his peeps! He refused to be intimidated and certainly wasn't going to be used.

rubbersole

(11,230 posts)
16. There's an almost full bingo card of pissed off religious groups that tsf is about to complete.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:40 PM
16 hrs ago

How he still has somewhere near 30% support on anything is baffling. Corporate media isn't going to be able to keep putting any more lipstick on this pig.

AverageOldGuy

(3,924 posts)
17. Colby is NOT . . .
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:42 PM
16 hrs ago

. . . " Under Secretary of War for Policy " -- he is " Under Secretary of DEFENSE for Policy."

yorkster

(3,857 posts)
114. Nepo Borgia baby
Thu Apr 9, 2026, 06:11 AM
3 hrs ago

This mtng. may have been Hegseth's idea or Elbridge Colby may have cooked it up.
Staggering.

PuraVidaDreamin

(4,636 posts)
18. If only there were some super secret Vatican police force
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 05:49 PM
16 hrs ago

That could work some freaking miracle right now!

Trueblue1968

(19,260 posts)
86. The church has had or does have secret people who can take care of a situation that you're alluding to.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:51 PM
13 hrs ago

I don know the exact historical details but in centuries past, violent deeds have occurred against enemies of the Church.


I just can't remember.

AverageOldGuy

(3,924 posts)
19. The Avignon Papacy
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:00 PM
15 hrs ago

Here's a link to Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon_Papacy

Here's the AI response:

The Avignon Papacy (1309–1377) was a period when seven successive popes, all French, resided in Avignon, France, rather than Rome, due to political turmoil. Initiated by Pope Clement V, this "Babylonian Captivity" saw the papacy under strong French influence, causing widespread decline in prestige and fueling European conflicts before ending with the return to Rome.


Apparently the French Emperor (King ?) was pissed off at the Church, so, when a French cardinal was elected Pope, the French crown forced him to remain in Avignon, France, and several successive French Popes were forced to remain in Avignon.

Not being Catholic, all I know is what I read on the 'net. However, as best I can tell, the "Avignon Papacy" is a warning about the dangers of mixing religion and politics.

Deuxcents

(27,065 posts)
21. Thanks..got to reading this history, too. I'm wondering just why the pentagon is bringing this up now
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:09 PM
15 hrs ago

Is it because the Pope is anti war and not siding with this invasion of Iran?

AverageOldGuy

(3,924 posts)
20. And now: Recently-converted Catholic JD Vance says he will "look into the report"
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:05 PM
15 hrs ago

https://www.newsweek.com/jd-vance-reacts-report-us-official-issued-threat-vatican-ambassador-11802350

U.S. Vice President JD Vance said Wednesday he would look into reports that senior Pentagon officials lectured the Vatican's ambassador, leading to the cancellation of a planned visit by Pope Leo XIV.

Vance, speaking in Hungary, was asked about reports first shared by The Free Press that claimed Cardinal Christophe Pierre was told in January that the Vatican and the Catholic Church should get on board with the Trump administration's military tactics.

llmart

(17,630 posts)
74. He looks like a young Jonathan Winters.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:08 PM
13 hrs ago

Except Jonathan Winters was a really funny guy. There is nothing funny about this fraud.

Dulcinea

(10,134 posts)
83. How long until VD Jance renounces Catholicism & goes full fundie?
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:38 PM
13 hrs ago

He's enough of a shameless opportunist to do it. He has no ideology except power.

littlemissmartypants

(33,854 posts)
24. Makes sense to me...
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:11 PM
15 hrs ago

After all, the Pope's not a Christian Nationalist is he?

That would make him the enemy.




Crowman2009

(3,536 posts)
31. I think it's long past due to excommunicate many of these right-wing fascist Catholics in America.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:42 PM
15 hrs ago

Cpl. Jackass Dickface Vance being one of them. I seriously had an opportunity to prevent him from becoming VP. But like the butterfly effect, I checked the wrong box with regards to my choice of duty station and didn't bother to re-enlist in 2002 which was a year before that fucker went to boot camp.

Scrivener7

(59,635 posts)
34. Like that will scare him. Bob doesn't strike me as the type to suffer fools. He also strikes me as the type
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:49 PM
15 hrs ago

who knows exactly how much power he wields.

patphil

(9,095 posts)
39. The forces of darkness have thrown down the gauntlet.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 06:53 PM
15 hrs ago

The Satan in the White House and his Demonic Secretary of WAR have threatened the Pope, and all of Catholicism.
The Catholic Church has already taken it's side; the side of Jesus. They have taken the side of spiritual truth and justice; the side of love.

So now we can see Hegseth in his true form as the beast he truly is. The Trump government is evil incarnate.

Emrys

(9,132 posts)
46. Welp, for those who thought this administration left the rails and went full wackaloon in the last few weeks,
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:05 PM
14 hrs ago

it just proves that happened months ago.

I'm surprised they didn't propose Vance as Leo's usurper, what with his liking for fabrics and all.

blue-wave

(5,228 posts)
48. How many American Cardinals
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:16 PM
14 hrs ago

are going to inform their congregations of this? I won't hold my breath waiting for the announcements.

Buzz cook

(2,900 posts)
54. The Avignon Papacy could be second pope
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:21 PM
14 hrs ago

France didn't like the Italian pope so they installed a French pope in Avignon.
So Trump is thinking of a split from Rome for American (maga) Catholics.

Good luck with that.

Emrys

(9,132 posts)
65. Well, it's high time the Antipope put in an appearance
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:35 PM
14 hrs ago

Spirit of the age and all that.

Vance could take on that role, leaving the Antichrist for Trump. That should keep the Evangelicals happy.

red dog 1

(33,129 posts)
57. Kick!
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:26 PM
14 hrs ago

Every single day we are reminded that the Trump Crime Family is diabolically evil.

DFW

(60,243 posts)
61. So now Trump is going to bomb the Vatican?
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:30 PM
14 hrs ago

You's think he could find something better to do. But I guess one could say that about EVERYTHING he does.

Mblaze

(1,067 posts)
68. To match the elbow-bending tendencies of Pete Hegseth,
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 07:43 PM
14 hrs ago

The Pentagon is drunk with power.

LetMyPeopleVote

(180,213 posts)
73. Pentagon Threatened the Pope After He Criticized Trump
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:07 PM
13 hrs ago

It was so bad that Pope Leo changed his plans to travel to the U.S.

This thin-skinned mafia administration is insane.
newrepublic.com/post/208820/...

Mrs. Betty Bowers (@mrsbettybowers.bsky.social) 2026-04-08T22:50:43.514Z

https://newrepublic.com/post/208820/pentagon-threatened-pope-criticized-donald-trump

Relations between the U.S. and the Catholic Church have not been the same since January, when senior U.S. defense officials shared an abrasive message with a Vatican official.

Days after Pope Leo XIV delivered his State of the World speech, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Elbridge Colby summoned Cardinal Christophe Pierre, the Vatican’s U.S. representative, to a closed-door Pentagon meeting for a bitter lecture.

“The United States,” Colby said, according to a blistering new report by The Free Press, “has the military power to do whatever it wants in the world. The Catholic Church had better take its side.”

One U.S. official present at the meeting brought up the Avignon papacy, a period in the 14th century in which the French monarchy bent the Catholic Church into submission, ordering an attack on Pope Boniface VIII that led to his downfall and subsequent death and forcing the papacy to relocate from Rome to Avignon, a region inside France......

The Vatican was so alarmed by the Pentagon’s warning that Pope Leo cancelled his plans to visit the U.S. later in the year, reported Hale, who noted that “many in the Vatican saw the Pentagon’s reference to an Avignon papacy as a threat to use military force against the Holy See.”

Tensions had not been mended by February, when the Holy See rejected the White House’s invitation to host Pope Leo—the religious order’s first U.S.-born pontiff—for America’s 250th anniversary in July. Instead, the Catholic leader has arranged to visit a very different locale on July 4: Lampedusa, a tiny island between Tunisia and Sicily where North African immigrants wash ashore by the thousands

Hegseth is a religious nut case who believes that G-d is supporting trump's war and military actions. I note that Hegseth excluded Catholics from Good Friday religious events. See https://www.democraticunderground.com/100221145488 If nothing else, Hegseth's actions/statements and the attack on the Pope violate the basic fundamental precepts of the separation of church and state.

malaise

(296,462 posts)
75. Good link
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:16 PM
13 hrs ago

Important snip

Tensions had not been mended by February, when the Holy See rejected the White House’s invitation to host Pope Leo—the religious order’s first U.S.-born pontiff—for America’s 250th anniversary in July. Instead, the Catholic leader has arranged to visit a very different locale on July 4: Lampedusa, a tiny island between Tunisia and Sicily where North African immigrants wash ashore by the thousands

Thanks

delisen

(7,382 posts)
78. Remember when Trump dressed up as the Pope?
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:32 PM
13 hrs ago

Trump is not the planner of this right wing coup, he is the front man. He gets to cosplay and do foreshadowing and trolling.
He is the talent, the entertainer, the showman. He gets to say: You’re Fired. Bul the big decisions are made elsewhere.

The planners are madmen too, but there is a method to their madness.

Peter Thiel has been doing seminars on the Antichrist right down the street from the Vatican.

Pope Leo is reining in Opus Dei, bringing the church back to the people and the Conservative Catholic movement is very angry. I

spanone

(141,700 posts)
81. Well, I thought they were all devout Christians.....nope it's all cosplay.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:36 PM
13 hrs ago

Don't take any shit from them Leo.

Pope says Trump’s threat to destroy Iranian civilization is ‘truly unacceptable’

BY NICOLE WINFIELD
Updated 3:14 PM CDT, April 7, 2026
Leer en español
Comments 182
ROME (AP) — Pope Leo XIV said Tuesday that U.S. President Donald Trump’s threat to destroy Iranian civilization was “truly unacceptable” and said any attacks on civilian infrastructure violate international law.

In some of his strongest comments yet against the war, the American pope urged Americans and other people of good will to contact their political leaders and congressional representatives to demand they reject war and work for peace.

“Today as we all know there was this threat against all the people of Iran. This is truly unacceptable,” Leo said as he left his country house in Castel Gandolfo, south of Rome.

He was referring to Trump’s threat that a “whole civilization will die tonight” if Iran fails to meet his latest deadline to strike a deal that includes reopening the Strait of Hormuz.

https://apnews.com/article/pope-leo-iran-trump-threat-unacceptable-332059536d7c4d6071c8f5abb35d8c8d

mackdaddy

(1,985 posts)
88. Six of the current Nine Supreme Court Justices are Catholic.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 08:59 PM
12 hrs ago

May not be a group you want to piss off...

Wednesdays

(22,698 posts)
104. How many of those six are Opus Dei?
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 11:06 PM
10 hrs ago

Not a good idea to piss them off...for different reasons.

Kid Berwyn

(24,501 posts)
94. NAZI diplomacy, but not so classy.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 10:04 PM
11 hrs ago

He may not appreciate it, but Dimdonniedipshit truly is the opposite of anything good and the lowest of the low.

"I've met some bad people. Not one as bad as Trump. Not a decent cell in his entire body." -- Jeffrey Epstein to Ghislain Maxwell

valleyrogue

(2,741 posts)
107. This is outrageously insane even for the Trump administration.
Wed Apr 8, 2026, 11:33 PM
10 hrs ago

The entire administration should have been gone months ago.

Hell, it never should have been in there to begin with.

Response to malaise (Original post)

rampartd

(4,690 posts)
116. an under secretary "summons" an ambassador? and not at the state dept?/
Thu Apr 9, 2026, 07:34 AM
2 hrs ago

“has the military power to do whatever it wants in the world. The Catholic Church had better take its side.”

does that talk get these guys chanting "usa usa usa" because it ain't working on me.

malaise

(296,462 posts)
118. All our worst nightmares about the influence of violent video
Thu Apr 9, 2026, 07:38 AM
2 hrs ago

games have come true.

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