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Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 10:37 AM 10 hrs ago

Vance tells Pope: "Stick to matters of morality."



JD Vance defends Trump amid spat with Pope Leo: ‘Stick to matters of morality’

Catholic vice-president effectively tells Leo to stay in his lane after pope criticized the White House over the Iran war


by Richard Luscombe
The Guardian, April 14, 2026

JD Vance has weighed in on Donald Trump’s feud with Pope Leo, effectively telling the pontiff to stay in his lane after the head of the Catholic church criticized the White House over the Iran war.

“It would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of what’s going on in the Catholic church and let the president of the United States stick to dictating American public policy,” the vice-president – a Catholic convert himself – said in an interview on Fox News on Monday night.

His comments represented the latest twist in the spat between Trump and the first US-born pope that began Saturday when Pope Leo XIV suggested during evening prayers at St Peter’s Basilica in Vatican City that a “delusion of omnipotence” surrounded the Iran war.

Snip...

“The president has the prerogative to set American foreign policy, he’s got the prerogative to set American immigration policy. He has to look out for the interests of the United States of America, and that inevitably means that when the Vatican comments on issues of public policy, sometimes there’s going to be agreement, of course, and sometimes there’s going to be disagreement,” he said.

“In some cases it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of what’s going on in the Catholic church. But when they’re in conflict, they’re in conflict. I don’t worry about it too much.”

Continues...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/14/jd-vance-defends-trump-pope-leo-spat

Who knows what Shady Couchhumper would be asked if Rupert Murdoch were Catholic?
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Vance tells Pope: "Stick to matters of morality." (Original Post) Kid Berwyn 10 hrs ago OP
Vanc-splaining Walleye 10 hrs ago #1
It's tough for him. Kid Berwyn 10 hrs ago #8
It looks like dump wants to kiss him 😘 MustLoveBeagles 8 hrs ago #28
MAGA should see what he does to a microphone. Kid Berwyn 3 hrs ago #36
Lol MustLoveBeagles 2 hrs ago #41
Ironic to hear anyone in the GOP talk about morality. walkingman 10 hrs ago #2
It has been a long time since the days of President Eisenhower. Kid Berwyn 10 hrs ago #13
A war of aggression is clearly a matter of morality. David__77 10 hrs ago #3
"A whole civilization will die tonight." Kid Berwyn 9 hrs ago #16
STFU Vance newdeal2 10 hrs ago #4
Thiel, Epstein's friend, is lecturing about the Antichrist Kid Berwyn 9 hrs ago #18
The Book of Revelation is poison. maxsolomon 9 hrs ago #24
IMO, they happen every day. Kid Berwyn 7 hrs ago #30
The 2nd Coming of the Messiah happens every day? maxsolomon 6 hrs ago #32
Maybe 'ol JD should stick to matters of government. Firestorm49 10 hrs ago #5
Great idea, so long as his ideas for governing get the support they deserve. Kid Berwyn 6 hrs ago #31
Headline: Vance supports separation of church and state HAB911 10 hrs ago #6
I'm so old, I gave the heads-up to Obama in January '09. Kid Berwyn 3 hrs ago #37
War is both political AND moral. no_hypocrisy 10 hrs ago #7
There is no greater political morality than living in peace. Kid Berwyn 3 hrs ago #38
OK. Let's talk about the immorality of this war. nt LAS14 10 hrs ago #9
First, an important message from War's sponsors... Kid Berwyn 2 hrs ago #40
Didn't Trump say only his "morality" constrained him karynnj 10 hrs ago #10
He did, the orange imbecilic psychotic solipsistic sociopath. Kid Berwyn 2 hrs ago #43
Why would the freaking Pope listen to this runty little punk? Blue Owl 10 hrs ago #11
"Stick to matters of morality". AloeVera 10 hrs ago #12
JD Vance mgardener 10 hrs ago #14
The Catholic Church has debated the moral implications of a "just war" . . . Journeyman 9 hrs ago #15
Right! Killing 150 school girls with a bomb has nothing to do with "morality"? kentuck 9 hrs ago #17
Great! If he wants the Pope to stick to personal morals JBTaurus83 9 hrs ago #19
War is a matter of morality SocialDemocrat61 9 hrs ago #20
To Which Pope Leo Should Reply: "I Am Doing So." ColoringFool 9 hrs ago #21
That's right. Trump's got immorality covered lame54 9 hrs ago #22
Someone should buy Vance an irony meter. Passages 9 hrs ago #23
The gall to instruct the Pope on his role. maxsolomon 9 hrs ago #25
War is always about morality Maeve 9 hrs ago #26
'Truth That Bears Repeating: A Budget is a Moral Document' sop 9 hrs ago #27
Pope to Vance: "Sure thing... -misanthroptimist 7 hrs ago #29
Because Trump's public policy has nothing to do with morality jcboon 6 hrs ago #33
How about bkowing up a school full MineralMan 5 hrs ago #34
Vance should stick to matters of upholstery n/t Emrys 5 hrs ago #35
Pope responds, kairos12 3 hrs ago #39
Shady is that simple? malaise 2 hrs ago #42

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
36. MAGA should see what he does to a microphone.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 05:35 PM
3 hrs ago

A singular Trump affront to the concept of obscenity.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
13. It has been a long time since the days of President Eisenhower.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:08 AM
10 hrs ago

From Teaching American History:



Dear Ed:

I think that such answer as I can give to your letter of November first will be arranged in reverse order–at least I shall comment first on your final paragraph.

You keep harping on the Constitution; I should like to point out that the meaning of the Constitution is what the Supreme Court says it is. Consequently no powers are exercised by the Federal government except where such exercise is approved by the Supreme Court (lawyers) of the land.1

I admit that the Supreme Court has in the past made certain decisions in this general field that have been astonishing to me. A recent case in point was the decision in the Phillips case.2 Others, and older ones, involved “interstate commerce.”3 But until some future Supreme Court decision denies the right and responsibility of the Federal government to do certain things, you cannot possibly remove them from the political activities of the Federal government.

Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose this–in some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything–even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon “moderation” in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas.4 Their number is negligible and they are stupid.

To say, therefore, that in some instances the policies of this Administration have not been radically changed from those of the last is perfectly true.5 Both Administrations levied taxes, both maintained military establishments, customs officials, and so on.

But in all governmental fields of action a combination of purpose, procedure and objectives must be considered if you are to get a true evaluation of the relative merits.

You say that the foreign policy of the two Administrations is the same. I suppose that even the most violent critic would agree that it is well for us to have friends in the world, to encourage them to oppose communism both in its external form and in its internal manifestations, to promote trade in the world that would be mutually profitable between us and our friends (and it must be mutually profitable or it will dry up), and to attempt the promotion of peace in the world, negotiating from a position of moral, intellectual, economic and military strength.

No matter what the party is in power, it must perforce follow a program that is related to these general purposes and aspirations. But the great difference is in how it is done and, particularly, in the results achieved.

A year ago last January we were in imminent danger of losing Iran, and sixty percent of the known oil reserves of the world. You may have forgotten this. Lots of people have. But there has been no greater threat that has in recent years overhung the free world. That threat has been largely, if not totally, removed. I could name at least a half dozen other spots of the same character.

This being true, how can anyone be so unaware of what is happening as to say that this Administration has conducted foreign affairs under the same policies as did the former Administration? As a matter of fact, if you will press any individual who brings to you all these strictures and comments, I venture that your experience will be the same as mine. That experience is that these individuals have no idea of what the “foreign policy” of the previous Administration was and what the present one is. They have heard certain slogans, such as “give away programs.” They have no slightest idea as to what has been the effect of these programs in sustaining American security and prosperity. Moreover, they have no idea whatsoever as to comparative size of them now as compared to even two or three years ago.

You say that these critics also complain about the continuance of “controls,” presumably over our economy. There is nothing in your letter that shows such complete ignorance as to what has actually happened as does this term. When we came into office there were Federal controls exercised over prices, wages, rents, as well as over the allocation and use of raw materials. The first thing this Administration did was to set about the elimination of those controls. This it did amid the most dire predictions of disaster, “run away” inflation, and so on and so on. We were proved right, but I must say that if the people of the United States do not even remember what took place, one is almost tempted to regret the agony of study, analysis and decision that was then our daily ration.

You also talk about “bad political advice” I am getting. I always assumed that lawyers attempted accuracy in their statements. How do you know that I am getting any political advice? Next, if I do get political advice, how do you know that it is not weighted in the direction that you seem to think it should be–although I am tempted at times to believe that you are just thrashing around rather than thinking anything through to a definite conclusion? So how can you say I am getting “bad” advice; why don’t you just assume I am stupid, trying to wreck the nation, and leave our Constitution in tatters?

I assure you that you have more reason, based on sixty-four years of contact, to say this than you do to make the bland assumption that I am surrounded by a group of Machiavellian characters who are seeking the downfall of the United States and the ascendancy of socialism and communism in the world. Incidentally, I notice that everybody seems to be a great Constitutionalist until his idea of what the Constitution ought to do is violated–then he suddenly becomes very strong for amendments or some peculiar and individualistic interpretation of his own.

Finally, I must assure you again that I am delighted to get your own honest criticisms, particularly if you will only take the trouble to lay down the facts on which you reach what seem to me to be some remarkable conclusions. But the mere repetition of aphorisms and political slogans and newspaper headlines leaves me cold. I am sorry you are not going to be at Abilene.6 It would be easier to tell you these things than to write them–except that by this method I hope to make you do a little thinking rather than devote yourself just to the winning of a noisy argument.

As ever

P.S. I attach a paragraph and a cartoon that came to me in the same mail as did your letter. At least it represents a different viewpoint. Incidentally, it comes from one of the most successful businessmen in the nation.

1 “I have faith in your inherent desire to operate this country on a constitutional basis,” Edgar had written, “giving to the states what are legitimately their rights, and assuming for the Federal Government only those limited powers which the Constitution intended that it should have.”

2 On June 7 the Supreme Court had ruled that sales of natural gas by the Phillips Petroleum Company to pipelines that distribute it in interstate commerce were subject to regulation by the Federal Power Commission. This decision gave the FPC control of a domain traditionally reserved to the states (Phillips Petroleum Co. v. State of Wisconsin et al. 347 U.S. 672 (1954)). Eisenhower deleted from this section of his earlier draft the following sentence: “I think there has been some tortuous reasoning applied.”

3 See for example Wickard v. Filburn, a case that upheld the federal government’s power to regulate farm production even when no part of the product was intended for interstate commerce and the product was consumed on the farm where it was grown (317 U.S. 111 (1942)).

4 Haroldson Lafayette Hunt, billionaire founder of the Hunt Oil Company, had often been a champion of conservative causes. For background on Eisenhower’s relations with Hunt see Galambos, Columbia University, vol. X.

5 “For your information,” Edgar had written, “there are a great many people in all walks of life with whom I have talked, who have made the statement that there is very little difference between the policy of your administration and that of the former administration” in the handling of foreign relations and many domestic programs.

6 Eisenhower would be in Abilene on November 11 for the dedication of the Eisenhower

Source: The Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower, Volume XV – The Presidency: The Middle Way, Part VI: Crises Abroad, Party Problems at Home; September 1954 to December 1954, Chapter 13: “A new phase of political experience”

Source: https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/letter-to-edgar-newton-eisenhower/



Hypocrisy is irony that hurts people, like when removing through violence orchestrated by CIA/MI6 regime change professionals the Iranian Prime Minister Mossadegh.

David__77

(24,829 posts)
3. A war of aggression is clearly a matter of morality.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 10:43 AM
10 hrs ago

It’s good to see the Trump forces exposing their true ideology.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
16. "A whole civilization will die tonight."
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:27 AM
9 hrs ago

Never thought anyone, let alone the President of the United States, would ever voice support for genocide.

newdeal2

(5,491 posts)
4. STFU Vance
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 10:43 AM
10 hrs ago

The pope is 100% within his rights to say whatever he wants especially about killing innocent people. I guess you don’t know what morality is after working for Trump and Thiel.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
18. Thiel, Epstein's friend, is lecturing about the Antichrist
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:36 AM
9 hrs ago
Peter Thiel brings his Antichrist lectures to the Vatican’s doorstep, and Catholic institutions back away

by Nicole Winfield - Associated Press
via America Magazine, March 13, 2026

ROME (AP) — One of the hottest tickets in the Vatican’s backyard these days is for a four-lecture series on the Antichrist being given by Silicon Valley tech billionaire Peter Thiel.

The invitation-only conference in Rome, from Sunday to Wednesday, has proven so controversial that the Catholic universities initially associated with it have all denied official involvement.

Thiel is a co-founder of PayPal and Palantir, the data-mining company that has been assisting the Trump administration’s migrant deportation crackdown. An early donor to the political career of Vice President JD Vance, Thiel is also deeply interested in the apocalyptic concept of the Antichrist and has written and lectured on it before.

“Christians debated these prophecies for millennia. Who was the Antichrist? When would he arrive? What would he preach?” he mused in a November essay in the Catholic magazine First Things.

Snip...

According to an announcement for the event seen by The Associated Press, the lectures were “jointly organized” by an Italian organization, the Vincenzo Gioberti Cultural Association, and the Cluny Institute at the Catholic University of America in Washington.

Continues...

https://www.americamagazine.org/news/2026/03/13/peter-thiel-antichrist-vatican/#:~:text=ROME%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20One%20of,the%20Catholic%20magazine%20First%20Things.

America Magazine is published by the Jesuit Order.

maxsolomon

(38,877 posts)
24. The Book of Revelation is poison.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:46 AM
9 hrs ago

Should never have been part of the Bible.

There is never going to be an AntiChrist. There will never be a Rapture. There will never be Second Coming.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
30. IMO, they happen every day.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 02:14 PM
7 hrs ago

It's up to us to be aware of what is happening and for which side we act -- meaning the reality we find ourselves in by chance or circumstance and the choices we make with the knowledge we have to change it.

maxsolomon

(38,877 posts)
32. The 2nd Coming of the Messiah happens every day?
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 02:32 PM
6 hrs ago

The Rapture happens every day?

Surely you mean metaphorically.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
37. I'm so old, I gave the heads-up to Obama in January '09.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 05:57 PM
3 hrs ago
Before he had had a cup of coffee with the professor and the bigot sergeant...

The next two years are going to be like a scene in the "The Good Shepherd."

Matt Damon's CIA character pays a visit to Joe Pesci, the Mafia link to the Castro Assassination program.

Pesci, as Joseph Palmi, asks...



"We Italians, we've got our families and the Church. What do your people have, Mr. Wilson?"

Matt Damon, as Edward Wilson, a composite character with elements of James Jesus Angleton to Frank Terpil:

"We've got the United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting."

That pretty much sums up what America really means to old money:

"You're only here as long as we want. We own the place. And the big guns."

Heads up, Obama!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4747998

I can still remember local newspapers over coffee in the morning, too. And the real press.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
38. There is no greater political morality than living in peace.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 06:04 PM
3 hrs ago

Same goes in every religion, philosophy, art and science.

As for Vance: the guy was a nobody until billionaires found they could shape him like a clay bong.



I'm so old, the last time I saw one of those the carburetor hole was in the middle of Tricky's forehead.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
40. First, an important message from War's sponsors...
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 06:17 PM
2 hrs ago

Trump is the epitome of what Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC (Ret) referred to as a "Racketeer." And in his rush to grab all he can as quickly as he can, even through war, Trump has almost destroyed the United States and its position as leader of the free world.



The Iran war, oil and the crisis of American imperialism

Gabriel Black
World Socialist Web Site, April 13, 2026

The US war on Iran will be remembered as a turning point in the crisis of American imperialism. Seven weeks into a conflict that has killed several thousand Iranians and nearly 2,000 Lebanese, the actual strategic result has been the opposite of what Washington intended. Far from reasserting American dominance over the Persian Gulf, the war has both exposed and deepened the declining ability of the United States to rule the global capitalist system.

Snip...

An essential aspect of Trump’s contradictory messages throughout the war—threatening to obliterate Iranian civilization one moment and calling a ceasefire the next—is that he is disturbed by the lack of success of the operation and the reaction of global markets to it. He is fumbling for ideas as he buys time. The spot price for physical oil cargoes has effectively doubled since the war began. US gasoline has crossed $4 a gallon for the first time since 2022. Stock markets have posted their worst quarter since 2022.

There is a panic in the ruling class that this war will yield a win for Iran, prompting Democrats, such as Pete Buttigieg on CNBC last Friday morning, to suggest a further escalation of the war to achieve regime change.

Continues...

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/04/14/The%20-a14.html



Times are tough now. Imagine when the oligarchs who hold most of the wealth in the USA and around the world decide to start paying for oil in Euros in living in New Zealand. Of course, should we survive Trump's rush to Armageddon until that sad day.

karynnj

(61,016 posts)
10. Didn't Trump say only his "morality" constrained him
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:02 AM
10 hrs ago

because he doesn't believe in international laws. So, Trump's attack was consistent with his morality. As Vance says, the Pope should speak about morality .... and per Catholic doctrine this was a war of choice and an unjust war.

Vance's book on his path to Catholicism is not likely to get an endorsement from the Pope. I hope lower level Catholic bishops and priests tell HIM to stick to his own lane and stop speaking about the church.

Kid Berwyn

(24,636 posts)
43. He did, the orange imbecilic psychotic solipsistic sociopath.
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 06:24 PM
2 hrs ago
"Yeah, there's one thing: my own morality, my own mind. It's the only thing that can stop me."

Of course, and his mouth too.

Recent days have lit a candle under the truth. He doesn't believe in international law nor the US Constitution.

Whatever happened to stopping a crooked pee-rentaldunce?


AloeVera

(4,310 posts)
12. "Stick to matters of morality".
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:04 AM
10 hrs ago

Oh like..

Over 100 dead school girls.

Hundreds if not thousands of damaged or destroyed schools, hospitals, tens of thousands of homes?

Threats to end an entire civilization tonight?

All of it for no justifiable, moral reason.

I suspect Vance's views of morality differ from those of the Catholic Church or any other. He should be excommunicated for being an immoral, evil ass and completely ignorant of his own professed religion.

mgardener

(2,374 posts)
14. JD Vance
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:15 AM
10 hrs ago

Would not recognize morality even if walked up to him and introduced himself.

What is more moral then, "thou shalt not kill?"

Journeyman

(15,462 posts)
15. The Catholic Church has debated the moral implications of a "just war" . . .
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:25 AM
9 hrs ago

since the days of Augustine (400 AD) and Thomas Aquinas (1250 AD), so I'll grant the present-day Pope the right to weigh-in on the moral implications of an illegal war.

kentuck

(115,449 posts)
17. Right! Killing 150 school girls with a bomb has nothing to do with "morality"?
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 11:30 AM
9 hrs ago

Who does he think he is! The Pope?

sop

(18,821 posts)
27. 'Truth That Bears Repeating: A Budget is a Moral Document'
Tue Apr 14, 2026, 12:01 PM
9 hrs ago

“ 'A budget is a moral document.' That was my opening statement at a news conference and prayer vigil of church leaders yesterday across from the steps of the U.S. Capitol. We represented a wide spectrum of the Christian families of America — Protestant, Catholic, evangelical, African-American, Hispanic, Pentecostal, Orthodox. We were there to commit ourselves to form a 'circle of protection' (also the name of our broad coalition) around the poor and vulnerable who are at great risk in President Donald Trump's proposed budget. 'Let me say it again: A budget is a moral document,' I repeated with energy and passion."

"This was originally a statement of principle from the religious community — said to politicians a decade ago. Some politicians now quote it, and even some media pundits point to it; but it was a religious statement from the beginning. I know that because I was in the room when it was first discussed."

"Any budget is a moral statement of priorities, whether it's a budget created by an individual, a family, a school, a city, or a nation. It tells us, mathematically, what areas, issues, things, or people are most important to the creators of that budget, and which are least important."

More at link:

https://sojo.net/articles/opinion/truth-bears-repeating-budget-moral-document

Every time Trump asks for more military spending, funded by cuts to social programs, it's a moral statement. Every time the Pope talks about war, poverty and social justice, he's talking about the moral choices made by government budgets.

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