Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 26m
Did Edward Snowden really praise Russia as "being the first to stand against human rights violations?" Really!?!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

by any measurement.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

Assange & Greenwald have used this kid, who clearly wasn't aware of the significance of the two places he chose as refuge. His father initially blamed Wikileaks for being the puppetmaster, but he's walked that back lately. Gee, I wonder why?

dis is joke, no?

Too much Borscht? WTH?! Like that OP stating we're worse than the old Soviet Union.

Their burning stupid hyperbole weakens any point they're attempting to make. Or do they take their cues from Snowden. It would be funny if it weren't so damn tragic.

Thanks to the foaming authoritarians.

and saying that the US is "worse" than Russia.

Kind of amazing, the ignorance.

looked to see who wrote it. Unreal. now the anti-"authoritarians" are backing Russia. roflmao

snowden.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/us/in-secret-court-vastly-broadens-powers-of-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Snowden's international hypocrisy tour of releasing U.S. state secrets and statements hyping himself hadn't overshadowed that.

are those who are constantly trying to say snowden is this that or the next thing...

But if you are unhappy that the conversation isn't focused on surveillance, perhaps you should start talking about surveillance if there's any part of it at all that bothers you.

Meanwhile, many think it has gotten the conversation going:


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/us/poll-shows-complexity-of-debate-on-trade-offs-in-government-spying-programs.html?pagewanted=all

James R. Clapper, the director of national intelligence, was forced to admit publicly that his previous assurance in Senate testimony that the N.S.A. was not collecting data on millions of Americans was false. A fact sheet was withdrawn after two senators charged that it contained errors. And officials who testified about terrorist plots uncovered with the help of the N.S.A. programs got the details of some cases wrong. "

The Snowden disclosures, meanwhile, have prompted a flood of discussion, including Congressional hearings, research organization panels and newspaper editorials and opinion articles, both supportive and critical of the security agency. At least five federal lawsuits have been filed challenging the programs.

But he has succeeded in opening the government spying’s trade-offs between civil liberties and security to the broadest and best-informed public debate in many years, even as intelligence officials are horrified at the exposure of their methods and targets.

Gregory F. Treverton, former vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council, said he found Mr. Snowden’s leaks “reprehensible.” But he said there had been nothing in the past quite comparable to the recent national discussion on government eavesdropping and data collection.

A former judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which oversees eavesdropping orders and programs in secret, said he thought the debate was overdue.

"the only person trying to avoid the talk about surveillance... are those who are constantly trying to say snowden is this that or the next thing... "

...include Greenwald, Wikileaks and Snowden, releasing statements and videos, making TV appearances, tweeting and all to hype Snowden and criticize Obama

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023203719

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023234734

bothers you, now's a good time to talk about it.

However, i heard those you mentioned speak about surveillance quite a bit lately.

"and yourself. But if anything about nsa activities...bothers you, now's a good time to talk about it."

...feel free to focus on what you want to. I post stuff that gets ignored a lot, but these threads seem to attract people wanting to discuss everything else except the topic at hand.

Oh well.

bills protecting privacy i will definitely pay attention. I agree, many posts about nsa activities are getting lost, usually in a sea of posts like the ones you're posting. I posted one the other day that the nyt wrote about surveillance and the topic of surveillance being revived and it was doa. In the meantime, if you don't want him to be a circus, why post so much about him? i mean, you start a LOT of posts about him. It's not just 1 or 2 or 3, it's constant.

Hardly ever see anything from PS about how the whole NSA thing is under Cheney's thumb. Maybe that will come one day? Or just be ignored again and again.

You have spammed the board with scores of threads about him, while you have almost completely ignored the issue of surveillance. You have done your damnedest to cover up the surveillance by making this 'all about Snowden'. Your obsession with him is ugly. It shows your interest in current affairs adds up, in the end, to a sports-fan mentality of "go, my team! All you other losers suck!" while you have no interest in the actual events.

Attitudes like yours are killing real debate.

handle it so they attack her.

Stop trying to stifle the discussion with your ad hominem attacks.

That is what has made this a freak show.

every one of them.

Your 'appreciation' of that puts you in a bad light.

I say it makes it just the opposite. A Worthwhile discussion.

you're only trying to stifle the disussion and you're not winning. And, you're acting like a poor loser.

and, just to show more hypocrisy, comments "the claims about wanting a debate were bullshit". Lots of people here was a debate about surveillance. ProSense has done her utmost to stop that, and you are one of her cheerleaders.

I find it funny that he is stuck in the transit zone.

if you define funny as "odd." Most of those things aren't humorous, though, it seems to me.

Irony is funny sometimes, though. That's for sure.

Here is the modern day Paul Revere (some say) or another MLK (others say) traitor, liar, con-man...whatever, the man's life is in transition and here he is...stuck in the transit zone.

I'd love to be able to chat with him for a while. I suspect there's considerable anxiety about his future in his head.

He's going to have a rough go of it, I think, and for quite some time. He has others to thank for that, I'm pretty sure. He took advice that has put him in his current position. I wonder what he thinks of the advice-givers about now...

less filling.

" It surely has on DU. Take a bow."

...you first: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=152034&sub=trans

lots of venom sprayed all over the place.

in some sort of sad little defense of whatever, it doesn't change a thing. and it sure doesn't change that most of those hides are gratuitous as all get out. I invite people to look at them. Interesting.

In the meantime continue on, pro dear. You'll make it to 200 posts about Snowden in no time flat, and soon you'll have posted that link 100 times. But when it comes to actually presenting a cogent argument and one that's not obscured behind a flurry of links? Nope, that you cannot do.

No one person is as responsible for the Snowden "freak show" here at DU, as... you.

As I said:

Take a bow.

Any day, and twice on Sunday.
This is DU. Some of us chose honesty and integrity. Sometimes temper flare, and posts get hidden.
But like I said, I prefer that over mindless propaganda, anyday. And trust me, I'm not alone.

need some new material because that one is absolutely hilarious. Luckily, I don't think you speak for cali in any way shape or form so as far as I'm concerned, my question TO CALI has still gone unanswered.

And I'd take facts and research any day of the week over mindless over-heated personal attacks steeped in ignorance. And I know for a fact that I am most definitely not alone in that regard. Your fear of facts and "blue links" is very telling.

Instead of posting the same , repetative blue pasta salad.

Lol!!

Btw, Photoshoped pics are so old school.

He was weird and annoying but he was Mr. Rogers compared to some of these folks whining about "DU is out to get them" instead of their own behavior for their blaring transparency pages.

since Russia just announced that same sex couple who express affection publicly may be arrested.

Whaddya think about that? Doesn't sound like a country that champions human rights to me, somehow.

I certainly have a much stronger, longer record of supporting GLBT rights here at DU than you do.

But it has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand which is the Snowden freak show, and specifically that freak show here on DU, to which the OP has been the greatest contributor, with something like 150+ threads dedicated to that young man.

concrete information. And I won't criticize any DUer for posting "too many" threads. The irony in your mentioning that is palpable. Any DUer in good standing can post as many OPs as he or she sees fit, I think. The one's Prosense posts are clear and understandable, and supported with links and facts. I can't fault that poster for that.

Selective use of either presents a skewed picture.

Personally, I prefer to post my opinion of things, based on my own understanding of them. But that's just me. Still, lots of people post their opinions on DU, without any particular factual backing. I've noticed that, too.

Again, irony is an interesting thing.

put it on context for me.

I'll see you later in some other thread, I'm sure.

Color me unsurprised that you couldn't or rather wouldn't elaborate.

I find you quite easy to predict.

i think he did iirc. Oh yeah, here's him last year on Democracy Now:

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/12/28/outgoing_rep_dennis_kucinich_with_2

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: The attempt is to give the government even more powers to spy, and that is really being translated into domestic, quote-unquote, "intelligence," even though it’s called the foreign intelligence bill.

We have to ask questions. What’s going on in our country, where we don’t have oversight of the activities of the government when it comes to domestic spying? And what are we doing in America, where the privacy concerns of Americans are swept aside?

We’re entering into a brave new world, which involves not only the government apparatus being able to look in massive databases and extract information to try to profile people who might be considered threats to the prevailing—to the status quo. This is a nightmare. And the FISA bill is just one example of how America is going in a direction that undermines the expectations of not just the right to privacy, but the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure, the demand that any action that’s taken to get information about people should be subject to a warrant, that it not be subject to just any FBI agent determining that this is information they want on that person. This is bad news.

At least it gets me something tangible and tasty.

Was it okay when W did it?

For the hilarity.

"By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world" as well as his own for "being the first to stand against human rights violations," Snowden said of Russia.."

I think I just blew a gasket.

"[strike through]Raymond Shaw Vladimir Putin is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

Laws are funny like that

Read the OP.

Id hope I didn't have the express sarcasm.

There are just and unjust laws. Laws are arbitrary and subject to change. Tyranny can be lawful, so what the state wants is not the definition of "Right", but only the definition of what the state wants. Legality is no reason to surrender reason to the state.

Tweets
John Schindler ‏@20committee 12m
Latest Ed: "I have no regrets" (let's see in a few months). "I did not seek to sell U.S. secrets" (didn't "seek" to?) http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/12/edward-snowden-moscow-airport/2511207/ …

soonergrunt ‏@soonergrunt 9m
@20committee no, he just tripped and spilled a lot of US secrets and when he got up, he found that roll of 10,000 Ruble notes in his pocket.

John Schindler ‏@20committee 8m
@soonergrunt That is, like, so totally different .... GG said so!

soonergrunt ‏@soonergrunt 2m
@20committee do you think Putin offered Snowden a nice apartment with a view of the Volga and his very own phoenix?

John Schindler ‏@20committee 1m
@soonergrunt In Ed's shoes I would settle for no less. That, plus an agreement to keep Anna Chapman 100m away at all times.

is that pure?"

John Schindler has a sense of humor about Snowden's kissing up to Putin. Wasn't it bush who said he looked deep into Putin's eyes and he could see his soul?

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.

"I was able to get a sense of his soul."




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1392791.stm

FTFY

And, yes, there is something inherently wrong with them.

They are the freaks though, that much they can't hide.

Sid

a little bit of a coward for not owning up to what he's done.

and that underneath the smiley faces inside the Kid's Meals is the same crap the elites have always dished out to keep their power and privileges, everywhere. American is not an exception.

Then again, I don't consider Brooks Brothers suits to be the pinnacle of civilization.

It contradicts everything you claim.

He revealed some things supposedly already known, yet somehow he is the entire story.

why some are so quick to trust everything this guy says no matter how much evidence shows he is a complete phony.

eom

That's the most troubling part. Somehow many are now on the side of a ex-KGB officer who would summarily execute any Russian who did anything like what Snowden has done.

his soul.. or some such garbage from the bush error.

What's the big deal? As long as it's clear that Pres Obama is the bad guy and Putin is the good guy then we're good, right? rofl

I'd bet my booty that Snowden ALSO has some very damaging information
on Putin and/or Russian intel community, or he wouldn't have lasted 10
minutes in Russia, much less offered "asylum".

When Putin says he'll offer Snowden asylum IF he "promises to not release
any more damaging information about the NSA" I think he's being vewy
disingenuous.

"When Putin says he'll offer Snowden asylum IF he 'promises to not release
any more damaging information about the NSA' I think he's being vewy
disingenuous."

...sure knows how to pick 'em.

that were easily and securely accessible to him?

Tell me. If you were Snowden, facing the choices available to
him, where would you be hiding out?

"Tell me. If you were Snowden, facing the choices available to him, where would you be hiding out?"

...no. If I believed in what I was doing, and absolutely certain that I was serving the greater good. I would not flee the country. In fact, I would risk conviction to remain in this country. With all the organizations and people focused on whistleblowing, I'd have prepared to take advantage of all defense and support.

The problem for Snowden is that he didn't just want to reveal information on the NSA domestic spying program, he was determined to reveal U.S. state secrets to other countries.

Let me ask you this, focusing on just the domestic program: If you believed you were doing the right thing, would you face the consequences?


If Snowden's case as a whistleblower is so strong, why is he afraid to face the consequences?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549

If Manning had been treated decently while in custody, and if he was
getting anything remotely resembling a fair trial, and then was acquitted,
and officially recognized for his service to the nation, well then, that would
be another very different story, wouldn't it.