Then your part of the problem and just a follower. The leadership should be scared. They are just parasite fat cats who happen to be Democrats. We need some faith and should purge them.

They BETTER NOT repeat the same mistake now. Or EVER. SHAME on them!!!!!

So they took the easy way out.

This time we need to make sure the easy way out is to vote in favor of such a bill or amendment.

And from NOW ON.

This isn't downtown Baghdad forcryingoutloud!!!!!

I wonder, too, how many female officers there were in Ferguson, and if so, whether there were any suited up like Seal Team 6, hanging off that armored war tank.

Someone got me riled up about these vehicles back in May of 2013.

67 counties in California have either purchased outright, or been "gifted" these items.

http://www.marinij.com/ci_22575612/marin-buy-370-000-armored-truck-terrorism-strike

Marin County is quite affluent, but the roads there are in perpetual grid lock. The only way this kind of vehicle would be able to get to where it was needed, let's say in the event of a hostage taking, would be to have the damn thing airlifted there!

My county is rather poor, with 18% of the population either working part time at low wage jobs or else totally unemployed.

But my county was gifted the damn vehicle!

Meanwhile people scrambled to get the $ 40,000 that was needed to keep open the swimming pool open in Lakeport, our County's largest city.

other than very affluent. Too bad that we all do not have enough time and interest to pay attention to what is REALLY happening around the rest of the country.

It's worth noting that the Republicans that voted in favor, were part of the Liberty Caucus. It's the libertarian wing of the House led by Chairman Justin Amash.

If it came up for a vote again, do you think the Dems plus the libertarians would be enough to pass it?

If Louie Gohmert votes in favor of it, I'll take his goofy ass in support of it, if that's what it takes.

backs is so wide, when it comes to all things military (god forbid they be deemed peace lovers) that rational behavior has ceased to exist in the U. S. house of reptiles.

to protect congresses real bosses from the masses.

anything else. We need to get rid of campaign contributions! Publicly Funded elections is what we must have to stop this kind of corruption!

What is this "shame" of which you speak?

When was there justification for outfitting municipal police departments with these kinds of war toys? Is this downtown Baghdad? Are these the lawless wilds of Afghanistan? When? Are our municipal police departments supposed to be outfitted like Imperial Stormtroopers? "Protect and serve" calls for this? Where are the IEDs here in this country? Where are the bomb-throwers and the uber-armed? Well - I might understand using this kind of equipment for the police who have to face the cliven bundy crowd. But I haven't seen a single sniper among the crowds in Ferguson. Never have seen ANY of the protesters there hunkered down in war-position aiming their high-powered rifles and assault weapons at any peace officers. I haven't seen anyone in those Ferguson protests armed - AT ALL. Except for a few rocks and bottles. It's ridiculous overkill. And there's no place for any of those war toys in our suburbs! There's no reason for it. Then OR now. Especially the way it's structured, where the Pentagon can simply stovepipe those war toys down to local precincts. WTF??? There's no reason whatsoever for any local constabulary to have such equipment at their disposal. Lizz Brown was correct. "Boys and their toys." And I've seen that mentality too often. You make these toys available, the kids are gonna want to play with them. You give them a hammer and everything they see turns into a nail. That is the mentality we should be enabling in our local police? YES. SHAME. SHAME ON THEM for going there.

They know exactly what they're doing and where their bread is buttered.

A politician rarely does the right thing, he/she does the safe thing...it will now be deemed safe to support bills like Grayson's because the people are catching on...

guts to stand up for what is right. And many flow with the $$$$$'s. Quite pathetic and sad.

(in the words of James Madison) "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority."

Note that the militarization of the police is occurring in parallel with the rise of an "opulent minority" of hereditary oligarchs. This is not a coincidence.

The current game seems to involve playing the fears and resentments of black people that are held by many whites, particularly those of the lower socioeconomic strata, so that they will accept the proverbial iron fist as being in their own interest. The Bearcats and rubber bullets are there to protect them from the dark-skinned horde.

It has always been in the interest of the rich to keep the commoner divided among themselves. J.P Morgan put it very bluntly when he said that he could alway hire half of the lower class to kill off the other half.

are often used by a majority to terrorize a minority..." implying that weapons use in a civilian world upends founding principles.

Instead of from the lobbying firms and the corporations that stovepipe the $$$ for them.
We won't get anything useful done in our country until we get Publicly-funded elections. And yes, I WILL raise my own taxes to see it done, it's that important.

to be uniting both Left and Right. RW'ers have been bitching about militarization of police ever since Ruby Ridge and Waco. It has been a problem in the cities for a long time, but just now being noticed by the general public.

And the amendment was proposed by a Dem too.

Frankly, I find it wholly unsurprising that most pols get in line when the MIC says to.

Here's what I'm talking about;;



http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Lower 95%, it is essential that we quit trying to maintain The Divide, and instead try to unite on the important issues.

The Divide has been carefully created by the One Percent, and keeping up that One Percent-created schism is exactly what keeps the One Percent in control.

Militarized cops might be one of those issues, because it is something any of us might encounter. Also, I do not automatically assume someone is evil or badly motivated just because they happen to be conservative. I'm too old for that shit, and life is too short to spend it pissed off. Not sure I understand where Libertarians are coming from, though. That being said, disagreeing with me does not make you evil. It merely makes you wrong.

At least RR and Waco had honest-to-god criminals involved...

The black community is pissed about decades of innocent people minding their own business ending up dead...

I'll believe there is some "unity" when I actually SEE the political right in Ferguson and protesting...

I was conflating them. My point was that people on the right and left would disagree on who the criminals are, we both agree that police overreaction occurs. Both sides seem to be leery of police outfitting themselves as military.

Who do not share our values and do not represent us, this is where we end up. That's why we don't need dems who act like cons for the sake of a dem winning a seat when they vote with the cons most of the time.

local police to fight a war with the citizens of the USA.

Giving our safety forces new tools to do their jobs is a GOOD thing.

Getting them at a discount, or free, is even better.

With new threats, like domestic terrorism and better-armed criminals, I have no problem with this "militarization" of safety forces.

or your fascist manifesto.

"Militarization" can be used in a manner that is entirely DEFENSIVE! Why "dumb" an issue down to black-and-white like a Tea Bagger would?

'and a dumb tea bagger'

Anything else Jeffy?

But Jim Pasco, the executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police, defended the program, saying it has helped law enforcement keep up with criminals.

"All police are doing is taking advantage of the advances of technology in terms of surveillance, in terms of communication and in terms of protective equipment that are available to criminals on the street," Pasco said.

Read more: http://thehill.com/regulation/defense/215207-left-right-unify-behind-push-to-demilitarize-the-police#ixzz3ATy0BKja
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

etc took over.


Military-style response only inflames the issue.

... were caused or PREVENTED by the initial response?

Ferguson. Look what happened after that was removed from the streets: a peaceful protest. In other words, they got exercise their Constitutional right to free assembly instead of being confronted by the police.

... you don't know.

We do know what happened when the fascists were removed from the scene.

Bad logic, also.

Bad logic, indeed.


You aren't fooling anyone.

Also, you seem to be focused only on the physical harm of militarization. But the fact is that is is used as an intimidation tactic to make people think twice about coming out into the streets and exercising their constitutional right to protest peacefully.

You were condemning another poster for seeing things as black and white yet that's exactly what you are doing with your argument when you argue only points about physical harm. It's harmful to our entire democracy. If we allow it to continue we will be living in a fascist state. No physical harm need be done at all if the people obey. The police arrested and detained journalists for no reason at all. They fired tear gas directly at a news crew and then tampered with their equipment. That is harmful to freedom of the press.

However, physical harm was done, to keep it in your terms. Tear gas was fired directly at people. Tear gas is not allowed to be used in war yet we use it on civilians. How sick is that?

Physical harm was done to the Occupy protesters as well. Tear gas, pepper spray. So even by your narrow view, harm is being done. You just seem to be able to ignore it because it hasn't happened to you or those you know.

In another post you made a point of stating that you are in America. Why do you say that? What does that mean to you? We have a constitution that gives the people inalienable rights and yet you are defending a police state, which if left unchecked will make America a fascist state. So what is it you think America as all about then?

about what he thinks is in his constituents' interests, with or without a casualty comparison.

Yeah, us white folks needs dem dere Bearcats and machine guns to protect us from the rampaging darkies who will otherwise overrun us, take all our stuff, ad then take physical revenge on us for all the lousy shit we have been doing to them for the last 400 years.

Like, yeah, man, dat's it. I gits it.

... be clever. Double fail!

Damn!

Do you understand the carnage these weapons cause when they are in the hands of individuals that aren't in a combat zone? No amount of safety training for the donut munchers is going to override the swelling in their pants over having overwhelming superior firepower - why do you think so many ex-military go into law enforcement?? To serve and protect? I spent 6 years in the Marine Corps (71-77) as a battalion armorer and practically saw no one I thought should have had a weapon in their hands outside in the 'real' (civilian) world...

can you explain?

It's possible that a case could be made against over-the-top OFFENSIVE products.

Grayson apparently lumps everything together.

In no way does that prove that defensive equipment was used "exclusively" for offense.

Until the smoke clears we won't know for sure whether "militarization" helped or hurt in this particular case. Or whether it's a good or bad thing in general.

give it a fucking rest with your clearing smoke bullcrap. local cops with their battle armament removed from the equation equals peaceful demonstrations. you'd have to be fucking stupid to not see who the aggressors were here.

It's clearly too early to make an evaluation of the effects of "militarization" in the Ferguson case.

And anyway, the thread is about a bill of dubious merit that would apply to the entire country.

Supposedly a defensive vehicle but used on city streets it is clearly being used as offense.

Are you going to excuse all military equipment used in Ferguson because only certain actual items hit a protester?

were as part of an offensive tactic. They carried LEO who wore military grade uniforms on and carried military grade weapons. They had the guns (machine gun?) on top of them.

All of it is used offensively whether or not a bullet is fired or a tear gas canister thrown because they are being used to intimidate, to silence through intimidation, to control through intimidation. Then if we are not intimidated they will use force.

This is too important to play word games with. You must open your eyes to the bigger picture.

Facts are facts and you can't do anything about it.

Btw... I edited my response while you were posting to add the intimidation factor. Please check it out.

Talk about grasping at straws!!

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of intimidation? It's pretty common throughout society. I'm surprised by your response tbh.

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc?

That is all.

My arse.

Either would be as accurate.

Is militarization used against right wing militias - NO, the police back down against an equally armed foe. Militarized police are being used against unarmed citizens protesting against a kid being killed for the crime of being black. How can you actually support that? Do you want us to emalate Iraq where bands of police go around and shoot up anyone who isn't of their sectarian beliefs? That's what being militarized could lead to. The picture already is unacceptable and will only get worse without controls being put in place.

I don't have those numbers handy, but I'm sure you knew that. how many people were hit by rubber bullets last night? you don't find it at all curious that last night we had the same protestors, and the same media, but different law enforcement in place, yet there were no "riots?"

speaking of media, what's your take on this?

Al Jazeera America reporter gets hit with tear gas in Ferguson

what were the police defending themselves against here with their defensive weaponry?

In other words, no casualties!

We are ALL victims of the militarization of Ferguson. It's happening all over the country.

Why are you defending it?

I don't see how I'm a victim of "militarization."

No one I know considers themself a victim of "militarization."

Until there is reason to believe that "militarization" is, on balance, harmful rather than helpful, we should hold off on bills like Grayson's.


















'

We have a constitution here that gives us the right to assemble peacably.

A battleship gifted to coastal city police force would fit well within any of the parameters you've given.

(time to move the goalposts...)

but I was talking slippery slope. No, we're not Fallujah - yet .

lemme guess: white, middle class?

Please, show us the stats on all these "better-armed criminals" that require ordinary cops to have access to military-grade hardware.

Here, I'll even help you out: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/07/181998015/rate-of-u-s-gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says

Militarized police threw a flash bang grenade right onto this sleeping baby and blew a hole into his chest and severely burned his face. He was in a Coma for a month!



This is what you support.

Please.

If there's a problem with domestic terrorism, they can be called in to handle it. Law enforcement doesn't need to be militarized.

There's much work to be done...

Last edited Sat Aug 16, 2014, 04:42 PM - Edit history (1)

These people and their spouses profit of the international war machine and now it appears the domestic one also whether it be NSA, private prisons or corporate security. We need fighters not sell outs. Things are moving fast and a new candidate can replace Hillary.

Last edited Sat Aug 16, 2014, 09:08 PM - Edit history (1)

God I'm so sick of the smug emoticons. But I'm much more sick of corporate Trojan Horses in our political system. I have nothing personal against these charlatans. They would make good CEOs but they don't belong managing our country just because they are better than the ugly alternative on the Right. They are like Vichey politicians. Politics needs to be taken back by the people because it has been corrupted. What Pelosi and Feinsteins husbands do is a prime example. Hoyer fronts for the military industrial and surveillance complex everyday too. Frankly it's disgusting and yeah I thought Bush should've been impeached whether it could've been successful or not. Most Democrats I know agree with me but I'm not a Beltway Backslapper. But I also don't sit around laughing at my own jokes either. Purge them...like vomiting up infected food with a virus. There is nothing worse than watching the decay of the Democratic party with fat cat, corporate plasticine Republican-Lite wanna be shills sitting in leadership positions purchased from their country club coffers. Cheers to the progressive Democrats who fight in the trenches and don't wear their liberalism on their sleeves.

That most people just wanted to be on the winning team. They live in a fear based reality. That was when republicans ruled the land. But I see the same infectious vice within our own party. It's like the same people who sold their integrity for access or wealth.

As usual.