Russia has sent several thousands of its soldiers, with armor and artillery, across the border of Ukraine to wage war against Ukraine's armed forces.

Having done this, Russia forfeits any ground to complain that a subsequent mustering of troops by anyone else to deploy in any country Russia shares a border with is 'a provocation'. Unless, of course, one takes the word 'provocation' to mean 'response to aggression already committed'....

"It's all lies! Lies against my boys!"

You sure talk high and mighty.

When you belly up like that with all four paws in the air, it really is hard to do anything but tickle your little belly....

"Most people would sooner die than think, and often do."

in port and then seize them breaking international law?

but I train with NATO forces, aside from the Brits and French, they are not what I would call high quality. As always the devil is in the details, the NATO armies are currently at the smallest force projection levels EVER, I don't believe they can sustain this deployment more than a year. Logistics, logistics, logistics. The days of the West German Army having almost as many tanks as the U.S. are long gone. Germany today is a hollow military. I want something done to stop Putin, but asking NATO to do it is laughable.

I had a feeling that was the case. People get their panties in a wad about NATO invading other countries, but the truth is it won't happen. The commitment is just not there from other countries.

I seriously don't get the pro Russia contingent here. It is really hard to get how Russia could invade first Crimea and then eastern Ukraine - after saying they never would, then saying they were not there .. that they had nothing to do with the men in green, speaking Russian - and some here still believe every word RT says.

If we did nothing, he would see it as a blank check to take what ever he wanted, just like Hitler. Hitler annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia and we allowed to by Britain and the other European powers thinking that would satisfy him but men like Hitler and Putin are never satisfied with the power and control they have and always want more. Should we start a war with Russia, hell no but we should support the people fighting against him invading their country.

Are they the same as they were in Vietnam? Cambodia? Laos? Angola? Cuba? Mozambique? Honduras? Iran? Greece? Nicaragua? Chile? etc, etc, etc. When we "helped" democracy in those countries?

Or, (Gasp!), we could stay out of the civil wars, border squabbles, and other assorted disturbances and borrow some our money from the MIC and do something useful.

That's what it looks like to me

Putin is a power hungry tyrant and former KGB officer. He's certainly no "businessman".

oooh.......power hungry tyrant



He's a CEO representing the interests of wealthy corporate owners

He flattened one of his own cities to the point it was named the most destroyed city on earth, jailed musicians for hurting his feefees, started a pogrom against the Russian LGBT community, and assassinated Russian expat dissidents across the world.

He's a fucking tyrant.

I seriously doubt Putin could give two shits

Putin has 'assassinated Russian expat dissidents across the world?'

This I didn't know

This whole reflexive "U.S. bad! Anybody against U.S. GOOD!!!" just leaves people looking like they stepped out of doors without pants holding a bottle of beer....

Also fascinating that to so-called anti-war left turn around and defeND Russian's aggression.

And it is both sad and entertaining to watch people who present as 'anti-war left' cheer-leading for Russia invading a neighbor, and doing so without even the poor excuse of a pretense Russia was at in some sense the 'left' side. It is like reading Workers World from forty years ago in here, sometimes....

I don't want to ask....I don't want to assume....but, your insinuation about reading "Workers World" (I assume a Socialist or Communist Newspaper or such) I don't know because I wasn't aware of it or read it== so I take you reference for just the mention as something derogatory.

Are you aware of the McCarthy Hearings? The lingering stench of that? I think you might be of an age who would remember that time.

I'm assuming "Workers World" might have been something that would have been unacceptable at that time for Sen. McCarthy and his witch hunters seeking out the "Commie Pinko's" amongst prominent Americans.

OTOH....maybe the "Workers World" you mention was a newsletter or paper that was the forerunner for the advent of the Fast Food Industry? I apologize if I mistook your post as asparagus on the OP.

Whatever...........

Official organ. It was quite entertaining, if one had a grim sense of humor.

One of the difficulties of being on the left in the Cold War period was maintaining some distance from being effectively in support of Soviet, and later of Maoist, Communism. A great deal of damage was done to the left, world-wide and in the United States, by the capture of much left language, and the appropriation and betrayal of many left ideals, by totalitarians in Soviet Russia and Red China. They had supporters here on the left, both genuine adherents and people who were taken in by the manichean world-view they presented. Much of what is said here today in defense of Russia and Putin in Ukraine could be taken nearly word for word from tracts written then against NATO and arming Germany, against the maintenance of U.S. bases abroad, and particularly on the origins of the Cold War itself, which in such circles was presented as a necessary response by the Soviet Union to U.S. and English provocations and aggressions. After all, the Soviet Union loved peace, and harbored no aggressive intentions towards anyone, and it was the genuine will of the people in Poland and Hungary and Romania and Czechoslovakia and the rest to form Communist governments and ally with the Soviet Union against NATO aggression. It was tiresome and destructive then, and it has not improved with age. It is a good portion of the reasons 'why we can't have nice things' like a national health program and strong unions and a more equitable and less violent society, because people who followed that line made it possible for right reactionaries to plausibly present the left as an anti-patriot and subversive element in our society and politics.

will probably be rid of him if an economic cold war puts a dent in their business.

invade its neighbors. The bear needs to know to stay in his cage.

If Russia would stop invading its neighbors, this wouldn't be necessary.

And, I'm sure it's a coincidence that Putin's thugs kidnapped an Estonian intelligence official in Estonia mere hours after Obama's speech in Estonia.

So, yeah, NATO countries do need to be protected from a rampaging thugocracy like Russia.

This is showing Putin there will be consequences for unacceptable behavior. He needs to understand that.

Putting NATO troops in Ukraine right after the recent revolution there would have been poking Russia with a stick.

The entire situation originated from an attempt by the EU to draw the Ukraine into its economic sphere of power (complete with bailout loans and austerity programs), and Russia's attempt to offer a much sweeter counter deal. The government of th4e Ukraine went with the counter deal ... it would have been financially irresponsible to make another choice.

But that decision met with the intense disapproval of a large chunk of the Ukrainian people ... who took to the streets (apparently with at least some EU support) and toppled the government (which was, let's face it, both corrupt and barely competent).

Now Russia had long broadcasted that they would at some point react to encroachment in its direction by the EU and/or NATO. So I was not surprised when they began supporting a counter coup insurgency. Nor was I surprised that they jumped Crimea, given its strategic importance to them. What amazed me was the utter lack of preparedness by the EU and NATO for these moves. It was as if they believed it inconceivable. I thought it was inevitable.

Everything was going their way until an airliner got shot down. Both sides accuse the other of doing the deed. I am concerned that there has been a shortage of conclusive evidence either way ... though we have been told such evidence exists. Recently, Putin challenged the West to release the cockpit voice recordings ... one wonders why that has not been done, and why other evidential disclosures have not been made. Let us as citizens beware the fog of war ... both sides of the issue are blowing lots of smoke right now.

In any event, the loss of the airliner finally prompted the governments of Europe to actually get off their butts and join with our President in formulating sanctions and other plans of action. If the Russians did not expect a NATO reaction of this sort, then they are as incompetent and/or arrogant as the EU planners.

NATO has no choice but to position itself to repel further incursions, and prepare military options for dealing with the situation. The cease fire agreement, which resolves none of the political matters, is a responsible action by both sides. It slows down the rush towards war. Neither side really wants an engagement between main NATO and Russian forces, with its potential for rapid escalation into an exchange of battlefield tactical nukes ... and thus the risk of broader escalation.

More significantly, as observed by no less than Henry Kissinger, this presents a crisis to the "New World Order" constructed after the Cold War. I agree, and further hold it was inevitable.

The neo-cons proclaimed "an end to history" ... the supreme triumph of capitalism. Well, the supreme triumph has produced multiple conflicts, ethnic cleansing, imposition of brutal economic policies, and massive wealth inequality in the nations of the West ... it wasn't all it could have been, shall we say. And it's excesses have produced consequences. New alliances are forming to oppose that western consensus ... and along with them, the beginnings of separate financial systems.

What happens next? I have no idea. I just hope everyone keeps their cool ... in a very real sense, we are back in cold war conditions, but without the training for and experience of that kind of world.

Trav

I wonder who the beneficiaries are of these escalated tensions. Certainly not me or other working class people.

Putins operations are placing into practice the defensive agreements the NATO countries signed onto. At the moment the ONLY country making offensive moves on its neighbors, is Putin. Perhaps he should take it as, this shall not stand message.

is suppose to notice because.. "Leave Putin Alone! " Russia:".. Provacation"