...have too many hides as it is (2).

I just wonder why some things are off-limits while other equally dubious things are ridiculed and dismissed as non-sense.

Reindeer with red noses? Get that GMO crap out of here!

Be the exact thing the text of the bible says you should be when you claim to be an adherent to that faith. The bible specifically allows slavery, selling your own daughters, executing people for minor social crimes and so on and so forth. The very text the religion is based on says it's perfectly OK, no REQUIRED, to be all the things you cited.

I guess I just don't get it.

I am sure

It equates the atheists daring to criticize an idea to two instances of outright bigotry directed at people (or reindeer) for what they were born as.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with calling silly ideas silly or not real claims not real. And putting it on equal ground with bigotry and homophobia is a contemptible tactic.

and thief obvious stupidity.

We don't have to respect their beliefs. We can acknowledge their beliefs and move on, or comment about it, just the same.

I've seen this meme repeated over and over, and it's nothing but an attempt to paint criticism of or dissent from religious claims as socially unacceptable. It's the age old game of declaring religious ideas to occupy privileged ground where critical scrutiny is socially unacceptable because they can't survive that scrutiny when subjected to it.

👍🏼

And what is worse is they use a fake reindeer as an example...pathetic.

Trying to give them equal standing is disingenuous at best. Malignant at worst.

If a God made man, he/it needs to go back to the drawing board.
If I was going to build a car, it would be something like a top-of-the-line Mercedes Benz, not a bag of bolts like a 1976 Yugo that catches every damn affliction/disease known to exist.

Thus the chorus of "huzzahs" whenever this is posted.

People get furious with atheists for pointing out that there is zero evidence to support the existence of a magical, supernatural realm or magical, supernatural creatures therein. They call that "mocking" and "rude" and "arrogant." Meanwhile, telling everybody to pray for this or that is NOT rude or arrogant because it is their deeply held belief. Double standard galore.

The Above ... (Screw whoever made the "up" arrow Hillary gif too...its not funny)

I am sick and tired of the continued proclamation "we're all keeping 'x,y and z' in our thoughts and prayers".
The assumption being that everyone "prays" because .... Jesus? Mohammed? Fiddler on the Roof? Babs?

I do not conflate pointing out the flaws and lack of logical coherency in religious claims with intolerance or bigotry or hate speech.
I DO believe that the second example in the OP is spot on, but the attempt at false equivalency is more than a bridge too far.

Also, it compares atheism only to Christianity which is problematic on many levels.

depending on who makes determination.

Just ask Copernicus.

If it's patently absurd, then it's silly.

Believing people coming back to life after being dead for days....absurd
Eating a cracker and drinking wine believing it turns into flesh and blood...absurd
Getting dozens of virgins in heaven if one is a martyr...absurd

Just about all religious beliefs are absurd. Anything believed without evidence, especially when other evidence exists that supports something very very different, is absurd.

I'm going to ridicule and or condemn you and your silly, erroneous beliefs.

I have never in my life attacked or ridiculed a believer simply for having belief, but when they force those beliefs on someone or justify dangerous practices because of their beliefs, the gloves are off.

as long as atheists stay quiet and mind their place.

Because pointing out that many religious beliefs have no basis in reality is exactly the same as being an anti-gay, racist, sexist bully.

Got it.

"Because pointing out that many religious beliefs have no basis in reality..."

Much like national borders, which then becomes, "Because pointing out that national borders have no basis in reality..."

The idea that one's entire identity is defined by their GPS coordinates at the time of their birth is an antiquated idea that I think humans should be actively evolving away from.

Last edited Tue Nov 17, 2015, 03:00 PM - Edit history (1)

are more like laws. An agreed upon construct that people adhere to for the sake of social good.

Those who think there is a difference in the actual land, say a yard difference between to countries or two States are deluded.

Of course I could see the same people who think God created the Earth in 6 days also thinking the ground is different on either side of a border.

6 days on Earth aren't the same thing anywhere else, because our concept of time exists only in our heads.

Civilization is the physical manifestation of our abstract imagination. We've come up with a lot of things that don't actually exist anywhere. Not just God, or time, but direction, and even words. They're curved lines that we think make sense.

No such thing as Tuesday, but damn if it doesn't rule our lives.

but we understand that those are concepts we agree on to go about our lives.

People believe God is an actual being that rules and created the Universe. Not a construct of our minds.

God is a concept we agree on to go about our lives too, until we don't. People are clearly fallible, can do stupid and bad things. We crave something, anything, to give life meaning. The rule of law is as subjective as anything else humans come up with. People put their faith in that though.

We created the concept of God, a god, many gods, whatever, to rationalize and justify the things that we do. Or were doing when we came up with it. The Earth is 6,000 years old. Oddly enough, that's around the time when civilization really got going. Give or take a thousand years here or there. Why do people do the things that we do? What keeps people going more, that we're just clever and violent animals staring down the dark abyss of oblivion, whose actions and thoughts don't really matter in any way whatsoever, or that there's a God out there looking out for us, that looks weirdly like us?

faith in the law and faith in a god are two different uses of that word. Though fundamentalist probably think they are the same thing.

And civilization goes back at least 12,000 years. Much older than the young earthers want to accept.

and if you dont fine, just dont make fun of me.

Did I mention I use my belief in Leprechauns to spread hate of Gay people and others?

and there is no evidence for any of your supernatural beliefs.

Sorry I can't just STFU.

Q: How do you know if someone is an atheist (or vegan or bike commuter or cross-fit enthusiast or...)?

A: Just wait...they'll fucking tell you.

but in reality, in much of this country and more seriously in parts of the world, people have to hide it if they are atheists.

(I know you were just joking in your post)

Even more places where I might not be in physical danger, but would certainly be a social pariah. It's good not to lose sight of the amazing progress that has been made on this (and related) fronts.

but can I tell you how I bike to work everyday? Not burning any fossil fuels and so healthy. Really, the world would be so much better if more people rode bikes.

The message has been brought to you by the Partnership for a Smug-free Society and the Office of National Smug Control Policy.

You don't mean in the USA, do you?

I mean, you can always run into a nutter, but I can't think of anywhere in the US where being known as an atheist would get you anything beyond social rejection.

in Texas, when we lived there. When they moved in, my husband went over to introduce himself and the man asked him where we go to church. My husband answered we don't, and that's the last time he ever spoke to or even looked at any of us. We thought it was funny most of the time, but it was very sad in one way. The wife was very nice, always smiled and waved at us - unless her husband was there with her. Then she would studiously ignore us the same way he did.

He was a jerk in other ways. He used to pile his tree and shrub trimmings and his trash on pickup day in the street instead of at the edge of his yard, because he didn't want them to mess up his precious lawn. They would then be a hazard for drivers, especially after dark. I called the city on him every time and public works would come remove the debris from the street. Eventually they ticketed him and he stopped doing it.

that we were mocking and ridiculing his beliefs by saying straight out to his face that we don't go to church (my husband didn't use the word atheist), and the man was only avoiding us to defend himself from our verbal abuse.

On the same street, another Christian family had kids close to my daughter's age, and the children became friends. They were good kids, but they were thoroughly brainwashed. These people constantly tried to convert my daughter to their crazy-ass fundie wacko flavor or Christianity, by fair means and by foul. I was very glad when they moved away.

I mocked and ridiculed someone's religious beliefs in that post. Bad atheist! Bad!

Even saying the word atheist is offensive! How dare you?!

The religious people, on the other hand, have deeply held beliefs and should feel free to express them at all times.

And who said I believe in the Abrahamic "God"?

sarcastically and in a humorous vein.

should have used a smiley.

Glad to help!

Atheists aren't bombing buildings or shooting up concerts in the name of the absence-of-gods. We aren't fighting against equal rights for gays or women because the absence-of-gods likes straight white men the best. We aren't pouring millions into hate crusades because the absence-of-gods suspiciously hates the same people we do. We aren't using our voting supermajority to pass laws forcing masses of unwanted children to be born into lives likely to be beset by poverty and want and brutality because the absence-of-gods can't tell the difference between an embryo and a bus driver. We aren't torturing our own children, often to death, because we think the absence-of-gods will and must cure all medical conditions, or because we think they are possessed by the absence-of-demons, or because we think the absence-of-gods hates the idea of our daughters enjoying sex. We aren't retarding scientific research that could save and improve the lives of millions because we think the absence-of-gods cares what happens to already discarded fetuses. We aren't supporting a huge ring of pedophiles from criminal prosecution by shuffling them off to other jobs, hushing up the victims and withholding evidence from police. And above all we aren't tacitly enabling aqll of the above by equating anybody who complains about the above with religio-crazy bigots like this OP does, or by reacting in shocked aggrieved dismay when anybody points out that believers really can be terrorists, bigots, evil or insane and still be genuine believers. Afer all, no atheist I've ever seen pretends Pol Pot wasn't, at least publicly, one.

But we are indeed sometimes snarky to believers on the internet (it has to be the internet because absent a few celebrities, anybody trying it in real life would be and has been anything from killed to beaten to ostracized to fired to disowned to reviled for trying it). So that makes us just as bad, right?

Hands down.

If your religious beliefs are so fragile that my comments -- thoughtful or not -- are hurtful, maybe you should reconsider your religious beliefs.

I do agree about the reindeer.

an atheist just FYI

silly or worse

I believe everyone is born agnostic - they don't have knowledge either pro or against the existence of a supreme being.

And we're ALL agnostic, for we can never "know" whether any of the thousands of gods humans have believed in, or still believe in, are real.

But we CAN use reason and logic to conclude that, in the absence of any evidence to support the idea that any "god" is real, that "gods" don't exist.

Yet so many of us seem unable to use their 'god given' reason and logic at all...

not turning out as you expected, huh?

Haven't seen the Frodo back after the OP.

Perhaps he thought he was being open-minded, only to be slapped by reality.

Or embarrassed to show his face again.

Or perhaps he's just a dick.

tell me about that reality

is not the same as homophobic bigotry.

Am I a dick? Somewhat, yes. But I am almost always polite and helpful, even to complete strangers. So if I piss off a few people online along the way, I am not going to sweat it.

I am not trying to defend the terrible shit "The Church" has historically done. I just think there are better ways of trying to educate people beyond "you are a stupid dumb doody head who believes in fairy tales".

Sometimes stereotypes have a strong origin.

that atheist don't like to be labeled bigots because they question the beliefs of others.

That challenging the existence of God and asking for evidence is the same as homophobia.

Yeah the origin of telling atheists to STFU is strong.

Ridiculing the ridiculous is okay.

and Buddhism.

I feel duty bound by honesty (not an Invisible Sky Man) to shame and ridicule anyone who believes things that are transparent idiocy, disbelieves science and proven, established facts, and wants to force other people to live by their unsubstantiated "beliefs" to placate or try to appease their Invisible Man In The Sky because 'he" demands that they do so.

No time for that bullshit whatsoever.

... I never mock any religion.

Until...

They go after me first. Telling me how atheists have no morality, etc.

Then the gloves come off and all my bile gets poured on their heads.

I tell myself not to be like that, but I comfort myself by knowing that Jesus will forgive me. Since he forgives assholes like Vitter and Josh Duggar, I figure I'll be OK.

Very, very well.

Shaming bad ideas or wrong ideas is usually considered OK.

But make it a religious idea? Not OK.

Religious privilege in action.

Your post is a walk-off grand slam home run.

Well said.

Make it MY religious idea? (or one that I associate with) and Not OK...

You can find all kinds of "Christians" running around extolling the virtues of religious tolerance, until it comes time to extend that same benefit of the doubt to Jews, or Hindus, or Jainists, or....you get the picture!

I think that believers should spend a lot more time contemplating the thousands of discarded gods which they do not believe in as "real" and a lot less time worrying about atheists calling them out for professing to be-LIE-ve that which there is no empirical evidence for (and a mountain of evidence against).

is all the other reindeer were Christian, and the red nose was a metaphor for being Gay.

Just want a clarification, or did the creator of the sign just run out of room?

but not for xtianits. You will be told this time and again on DU.

I say fuck them both, and sideways, to invoke John Oliver's recent rant.

WTF is with the double standard? It's either wrong across the board or not at all. Can't have it both ways.

disgusting sort of self-flagellating (mostly white) guilt. They damn near do prove the old RWNJ talking point that there are (at least some who call themselves) liberals who blame America for everything and anything.

I prefer to blame America and its brutally corrupt capitalist system for exactly what it deserves to be blamed for. That in itself is an almost unimaginably long list of rotten things.

I haven't seen it.

being "homophobic, misogynistic and hateful in the name of Islam okay", according to some on DU.

As you claim: "You will be told this time and again on DU." That is a bold claim. You then should be able to produce numerous links.

...if the author didn't waste their time equating atheists who criticize bad ideas with Christians who promote homophobia and misogyny.

Apparently it was more important to make a lame ass joke than address more serious matters.

If criticizing an idea is the same thing as bigotry toward a person, then DU is by definition an anti-conservative hate site.

It's a stupid definition.

Unless of course, you hate religious people. Then it is OK, because they are incorrect.

pointing out the illogic of some religious beliefs is just like homophobia. Really?

Shaming religions and spirituality is not okay.

But I guess I am not a hard-core, militant atheist.

The rest is a bit unbalanced.

you shame. Do you sit by while people claim the world is 6 thousand years old, or that women need to be subservient and covered head to toe?

Spirituality is such an loose term, some are silly, some aren't. "The Lesson" and Shirley MacLaine for instance, are silly.

Being an atheist and sneering about "invisible sky daddies" is obnoxious. And not as clever as they think it is.

Where was this magical being BEFORE the shit went down? We're supposed to kowtow to a supernatural sociopath that either caused or allowed this stuff? 'Cuz, you know, if the deity has the power to take action after the fact, it certainly has the power to take action before the fact. Telling people to pray to the hateful sky god to ask it for crumbs of mercy is offensive to me.

You must get offended a lot.

Your religious privilege is such that you and your believer cohorts don't even think about what you're actually saying when you demand people "pray" for such and such nonsense. Saying "ask the omnipotent God to intervene for X or Y!" is just as sneering and condescending as saying "invisible Sky Daddy."

Epicurus

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”