That's the holding of Brandenburg V Ohio but while placing limits of free speech it never placed limits on speech that merely makes us uncomfortable.

"Gettem outta here!!".. In the old days we coulda roughed 'em up.

I'm pretty sure that's incitement.

How the FUCK is that just "uncomfortable "?

OMG I swear ::headdesk::

That's a unique way of looking at things.

so I don't get the discussion. And Trump has been egging them on...for months.
Now they're attacking people.

That rule applies to everybody and is not dispensed according to whom the speaker is.

The correct quote is that free speech does not extend to the right to *falsely* yell fire in a crowded theatre.

Free speech importantly *does* extent to speech likely to make people angry, and even to speech likely to result in riots (although not to speech that explicitly, as opposed to implicitly, incites riots).

I don't mean directed or questioning you but I suspect we are going to have the "does he have a right to say it" news time killer instead of talking about real issues.

Drumpf, the rally goers, and the police would ALL have blamed the victim, and celebrated the violence.

--the assaulter is not going to get away with it -- only because of the video.

and there was an uproar about it. They had no intention to arrest that guy- they were too concerned about tackling and cuffing a black guy.

Democrats better watch what they wish for. Trump is on record as being very pro-choice. Is Cruz? Rubio? Kasich? HAHAHA. No.

Trump is on record as wanting to tax the wealthy more. The others? GMAB here.

There's more to the anti-Trump movement than just grassroots loathing. IMO.

I'm confused about the rest though. The protestors are clearly from the Dem side. Are you implying that they are Repiblican plants?

But some how I suspect that that point will be lost on Dumpft's followers, those who aspire to wear white sheets are not known for deep thought.

Free speech is not a promise of polite discourse, but rather the opposite, a war of words and ideas--including those waged to disrupt the speech of others.

Further, the notion that free speech is legally speech unfettered by opponents is incorrect...it is speech unfettered by the state.

Which is why people who do can be forcibly removed.

It's just grounds to have you removed. If 200 people showed up and shouted down Trump...he's be powerless to stop it and there would be no legal ramifications of it.

I'm in favor of that disruption. He's a fascist. Also, my understanding was that this was in the public space. He has no rights of removal in that space.

from a "public space" is a bit more complicated.

and they are on private property. Out in public they can say anything.

A group of white nationalists start shouting for Trump at a Sanders rally. They rip up Sanders campaign signs and shout in the faces of Bernie supporters causing Sanders to cancel the rally for safety reasons.

Your reaction to such behavior would be the same?

though you are adding in ripping up signs which might be a crime.

But everything they said - they can't be arrested for that.

Or a Clinton rally or a Cruz rally or a Rubio rally.

I do not believe in political niceties that you apparently do. If you want speak of your ideas, you need have the expectation of opposition to those ideas being expressed.

Protestors could make their voices heard outside of where the speech is given and/or hold competing rallies or speeches decrying what the candidates is saying.

Let people hear what everyone has to say/wants to do and then make an informed judgement accordingly.

If white nationalists shut down a Bernie Sanders of Hillary Clinton rally, I would find that to be very alarming.

Fuck that noise. Public space is public space. It's mine (and yours), not some pol's.

Free speech zones were areas set aside in public places that are used to restrict the ability for American citizens to exercise their right of free speech in the United States by forcing them into these zones.

I am not in any way expressing support for anything like that.

Protestors should be allowed to protest in public spaces. That has nothing to do with the point I am making.

Are you deliberately manipulating what I am writing for some reason?

Wouldn't have anything to do with who those protestors were supporting, would it?

And by the way, the protestors also have a right to free speech.

My old man contacted malaria and was blinded in one eye during the North African Campaign in WW ll to protect that right.

Trumps speech was offensive... strange that you'd defend it.

what speech is allowed?

We are all dismayed that Trump is giving credence to the racism and xenophobia that traditionally have stayed relatively hidden in the dark corners of our society.

Trump has unwittingly, IMHO, exposed the persistence of those attitudes. Should we control his free speech in order to keep those attitudes confined to our 'dark corners' or trust that 'sunlight' is the best 'disinfectant' in the long run?

(with the exception of the incitements to violence).

Ideally he would be shunned for his disgusting comments. What's truly disturbing is that he has an avid audience.

Non-violence is the key to sanity. Majority of the protesters were hands off while protesting and I commend them for that. But alas, some protesters were hands on.

NOBODY in America objected to what we are seeing?

It's already alarming to people in other countries that we have allowed this to get as far as it has. They know all too well that this fascist Trump thing has the ability to metastasize.

Would you want everybody to cower behind their TV screens while tRump gathers steam?

For every onlooker who likes what they see, there is one who gets off the Trump train after this. Rachel was right--the strongman image failed--tRump didn't look like a hero in the Chicago incident. Looked like a wimp.

the news media are falling all over themselves for "access".

And you are suggesting his free speech is being denied. Absurd.

Someone just called her a "homophobe." It was not hidden. I have seen her called many things here on DU. None of them hidden.

How can anyone actually believe this?

One never, ever lets a racist spew their racism without pushback.

You confront them, tell them they are NOT allowed to call your neighbor names!

You NEVER, EVER tsk, tsk, tsk and walk away to let them repeat, repeat, repeat their racism because NO ONE CALLED THEM ON IT.

What ever else Donald Trump is, he is first and foremost a RACIST. He made that abundantly clear on the day he announced his candidacy.

Sorry, Donald Trump, I will not stand by silently while you call my friends, neighbors and fellow Americans racist things.

I will stand against racism in every form.

1) Donald Trump is an incipient fascist, and homophobe, racist, sexist, misogynist, xenophobe, anti-semite, and nativist to boot.
2) But even an incipient fascist, homophobe, racist, sexist, misogynist, xenophobe, anti-semite, and nativist has a right to be heard.
3) Of course, so do the protesters.
4) Let everybody be heard. I believe good will win out.

For sure it is dangerous. But we can remind ourselves that in the end the highest percentage of people are against Trump and those for him ultimately are a minority of the entire population. They are even a minority of Republicans. Best to know who they are.

Even to the point of shutting down a fascist rally.

Dump the Trump!

Is this really the direction we want to go?

As a child of the 60s and the Democratic Convention in Chicago, with scars on my head from the police billy clubs, YES!

Absolutely YES.

It is NEVER OK to stand idly by and watch fascism take hold. NEVER.

We MUST speak up. In any way, any form, and at every opportunity provided to us.

Shutting down rallies and standing idly by are not the only two choices.

One can organize a massive protest outside every Trump rally. One can organize counter-rallies to go on at the same time as a Trump rally. One can organize a large scale social media campaign designed to discredit the falsehoods being spread at Trump rallies. One can organize marches against fascism in every city and town across the United States.

One can do all of that while still allowing Trump to give his speeches. Not letting him speak at his own rallies is counterproductive. The same tactic could be used against us to prevent Bernie from speaking.

The protesters did NOT shut down the rally. Chickenshit TRUMP shut down the rally.

You ALWAYS push back on a bully. ALWAYS.

THIS is what your tsk, tsk, tsking produces:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The idea that "standing idly by" and attempting to shut down all of Trump's speeches are the only two options is, by its very definition, a false choice.

There are many other things that one can do besides those two options.

Lots of ways to speak out, as I pointed out above, while still letting his speeches go on.

Protest outside. Hold another rally next door at the same time. Spread the truth on social media.

And that got us TRUMP.

No thanks.

That being said the antidote to hate speech is not stifling that speech but countering it with love speech.

Have you ever heard of Hitler?

in the making.

NOW is the time. Not after the man is allowed to kill like Hitler did.

NOW.

TODAY.

BEFORE HE GETS THE OPPORTUNITY.

Protest away...

I just don't want to see anybody silenced... Let good speech drown out bad speech.

displaying the COURAGE to do so, all the while being told to behave by the tsk, tsk, tskers.

I donned a black arm band went to a Moratorium March in NYC when I was 11 years old.

But free speech is a hill I would die for.

pffft

many primaries. Actual citizens, same as your Constitutional right, have voted for him

Who made you or anyone else a Nostradamus?

defending Trump on DU.

What's next?

You should always stand up to bullies. However continuing with the rally would have been logistically impossible. It literally would have turned into a riot.

You don't stand up to these kinds of people by behaving nicely.

police riot, officially designated as such by a govt commission. Who were the Fascist politicians whose rallies you would have shut down in 1968?

Oh, that's right; NOT the ones with the convention violence.

P.S. Nixon was elected on my 19th birthday. I remember the political events very well, even if I didn't get clubbed. I wonder what Hillary recalls.

n/t

is okay?"

and I DO believe it is appropriate.

I repeat..........YES, YES, YES.

The Trump(ists) skew older and consequently they are less likely to organize on social media and disrupt events but he has enough young followers to create havoc on our side.

I hope we avoid this spiral into the abyss.

Trump is dangerous and most people know it.

I don't see why there can't be a massive campaign to spread the word about how dangerous Trump is without having to resort to preventing him from being able to give a speech as a candidate for president.

Protest on.

Just defending the idea that even the most odious presidential candidates ought to be allowed to give speeches.

We don't get to be the civility police and circumscribe the parameters of the debate. But if anybody thinks there isn't an opportunity for blowback they are delusional.

As a partisan practice this is great for us. Few voters will knowingly sign up for four or eight years of chaos.

When those "rallies " incite violence and are undercover Nazi/Klan rallies then YES they should be shut down

Come on now.

I salute you for fighting for the voiceless. But no free college for his damn kids.

Bemused.

I just made the connection: a lot of the anti-Trump protesters in Chicago were Bernie supporters, so what happened in Chicago must be made to look like a bad thing.

That is less than useful - especially on what is ostensibly a discussion forum.

but for this particular thread, the Hillary v. Bernie prism helped me understand why this OP was posted.

citizens protesting private citizens who are running for political office, unless the government tries to shut it down.

Great grans and grandparents who were there can assure that non-violence protesters were the key. As a Liberal Democrat, I prefer the peaceful protest.

What went wrong?

This will NOT redound to his benefit in the long run. He is associated with chaos and that is not a good thing. I am afraid of the precedent it sets though.

And he is going to milk this latest violence as much as he can.

And the anger of white supremacists

Americans will not knowingly vote for chaos, at least not enough of them to swing an election.

Tactically I am glad Trump's noxious speeches are being shut down because it makes him look like a candidate who courts chaos. I just am concerned what happens to the right to peacefully assemble in the process.

He was free to speak no police or other official stopped him from speaking!

I am not really sure what you are concerned about, Trump is given much much more free tv time to speak than any candidate in history.

By the way many people on this site lost love ones who fought fascism and would be turning in there grave if they knew how much air time was given to this incipient fascist.

Government shall not abridge freedom of speech. The protesters were not the government.

He didn't want people speaking back to him, that's all.

Really? I thought they denied that. Is this new information since last night?

A spokesman for the Chicago Police Department says the agency never recommended that Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump cancel his campaign rally in the city.

CPD spokesman Anthony Guglielmi tells The Associated Press that the department never told the Trump campaign there was a security threat at the University of Illinois at Chicago venue. He said the department had sufficient manpower on the scene to handle any situation.

Guglielmi says the university's police department also did not recommend that Trump call off the event. He says the decision was made "independently" by the campaign.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/chicago-police-say-they-advise-canceling-trump-event

CPD did no such thing, as I understand it.

he has more speech than any of us
and thanks to the complying news ratings whores it's usually free

but that's not the point of my reply

Trump has a YUGE arena to speak in
he is the last one to whine about being shut down - because it is not happening
it is an absolutely disingenuous argument and he knows it - too bad you don't

Are you keeping detailed track of minutes allotted by the MSM?

I haven't a clue what you are talking about

allotments? Has someone calculated his minutes compared to Hillary's or Cruz's? Etc.

All this anti-democracy and anti-Democratic talk saddens, frightens, and exhausts me much more than any Trump rhetoric.

Sounds like you need it

The Trumps of the world should be free to speak, and so should any and all who object to their words or behaviors.

I don't think so. That's why Drumpfenstein is not welcome on Canada.

The speeches have been made. They have been heard.

As Trump explained while accepting the endorsement of a man whose religion he had mocked and likened to a child molester (http://la-kabylie.com/2016/03/12/former-presidential-rival-carson-endorses-trump-in-united/)

"We've had enough debates. Enough debates. How many times do you have to give the same answer to the same questions?"

Time to shut that shit down!

a Republican who wants to "shut ,...down" a Bernie Sanders event?

I will join them in working to shut him down.

My grandfather fought in WWII. I have friends who lost family in the Holocost. I have neighbor's who are "immigrants" due to wars started by the last administration, which were dependent on hatred and bigotry. Oh, and I am a woman.

If you think, after months of rhetoric from Trump, including initially gleeful acceptance of KKK endorsement, that I have ANY PROBLEM with protesters shutting down hate speech and anti-American rallies, you are mistaken.

I understand the power of the demagogue. Silence becomes approval. We are not going to do another civil war over this grifter.

Trump's message has been heard, and his troops want to march all over the rest of us.

I support the protesters.

Everybody knows their message: Hate, hate, hate.

You'd hear absolutely no complaints from me if protesters shut down every single Republican event from now until the end of time.