for running against Hillary and not against some modern-day reincarnation of Mussolini.

Joined at the damn hip now and forever

It makes me very angry to see him or any of the posse whine about the media. They wouldn't be the occupants of the WH if the media had not crucified HRC. Emails seem rather silly today, don't they .

where a man was forgiven everything and a woman was forgiven nothing.

She was not only forgiven nothing, she was pilloried for stuff that wasn't even wrong. (From both sides.) The standard to which she was held was impossibly high.

It's hard to win an election when you're getting so much shit from your own side.

County NM Dems is 'my' party facebook page and I had to post your and the following post and this link....it is too perfect a recap not to share. Thank you.

but I remember reading that on twitter the day after the election. I honestly don't remember where as that day I was still in quite the fog.

And for that, I am grateful to you...in fact, I am reminded of all the reasons I love DU so much so often these days. It almost feels like I was taking DU for granted before that. I now cling to DU often as if it was (were?) a lifeboat and I'm in an old inner tube. Nah, that doesn't describe it well!

the election, and so angry at my country I'm pretty sure I just monitored by Twitter feed. I couldn't watch tv at all. DU was down and holy cow Joni Mitchell was right, you don't realize how much you miss being among like minded people, where you can howl at the moon and everyone understands until it's not there anymore. But that particular tweet has really stuck with me.

How about becoming 'leftyAlamogordonm'? Come live with me and be my Love?

The double standard was fucking INFURIATING!!! I found myself tweeting to the Andrea Mitchells of the world repeatedly exhorting them to fixate on some of the potential criminality that they were allowing trump to get away with so they could obsess on Hillary's emails. I remember tweeting one that demanded a closer - hell, ANY investigation of the Russian connection, and added - "don't know how? Pretend it's Hillary!"

Especially Susan Sarandon and Oliver Stone, who just wrote a piece on his FB page, not criticizing Trump for the Muslim ban, or anything like that, but attacking our media for wanting to lead us to war with Russia because they want to prove Trump is in Putin's back pocket. And he voted for Stein.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1404848452872783&id=386829811341324

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

O.S. is as out of touch as only a "liberal" multimillionaire can be... Seriously - fuck these people.

Oh, and welcome to the Sturm und Drang of DU, bhusar

I am here off and on, and was posting more until the hack happened.

But Trump was not POTUS on August 25th 2016.

Yeah, I know she'd never do that, but it would be great if she did.

maybe she will once the giant dickhead finally gets impeached

I admire your glass half full personality! Seriously, I need to channel that myself.

All those "we wanna SEND a MESSAGE" folks sure sent a message alright. Wonder if they're happy NOW?

I know some who are still saying "this will teach the people!" Um, yeah, you're people, too, idiots! We're going to be clawing our ways back to where we were a year ago for years, and years to come. I cannot begin to express how angry it makes me. Regressive, freaking fools.

Not politics. We try to keep it light, doing a quick survey of the room before giving a harsh opinion, such as of Trump. None of us liked Trump.

But we had someone (SK) there who hadn't been by in years and years, then showed up again during the summer and fall. She prides herself on her mighty intellect, but lacks social grace.

I'm not telling this well at all. The fact is, I was blindsided.

After SK giving all the reasons she did not like Hillary and how Hillary was not to be trusted, and the emails, and Comey... And after hearing me and others rebut this, and say our piece about Trump -- here is what SK said to me personally: "I'll just have to wait and see what else comes out this week." And she gave me a smile so smug it galls me to this day.

Every month when Games Night rolls around, I wonder if SK will will show up, because I want to ask her one thing: "Happy now? Happy with the results?"

SK has not been back, which is just as well, but eventually our paths will cross again, and I will ask her that -- then turn my back and walk away.

And seems to me that's a key strategy! "Happy NOW?"

Just a wee bit of a reality check. Seems to me if we gently confront people - GENTLY - and guide them toward thinking. Thinking back to WHY they voted this way. WHAT did they want? Do they REALLY think they're getting what they want, now? Now that they voted for him and he's in there, is this all working out the neat and cool and bigly way they expected? Are they REEEEEEEAAAAALLLY happy with the whole "Captain Chaos" thing?

It might be a gentle way to invite some of these folks to start waking up. Nudge them awake. I bet there are more than a few with second thoughts. Starting to have second thoughts. Starting to wake up and realize - "uh, gee, uh - this isn't working out the way I thought..." or, even better: "uh, gee, uh - HE isn't working out the way I thought."

There are still plenty of 'em out there who are still, somehow, liking what they see. But I suspect that won't last long for many of them. INEVITABLY something will click. INEVITABLY, something will hit them that affects them directly. Just imagine it: if we can gently nudge them toward that way of thinking, from the figurative clown-car airplane they're on (that's looking like it's on the way down - the HARD way), and make sure they see the parachute nearby, then they might be that much more likely to reach for that parachute and bail out of the plane.

On edit - I just got a heart! Whoever sent it to me, THANK YOU! <3

Her book is enough, for now. I just wish her peace after how she was dragged through the mud by people who should have known better.

right -- as Thom Hartmann says, she will remain focused on children and family issues! Good for her!

He showed his hand every time he opened his huge piehole.

Either they willingly knew or decided to ignore it... both positions are horrible.

Trump did not hide who he was, just the opposite, he celebrates his myopic-man-pig view of the world!

Muslim ban, wall, everything else. He was quite clear. Shows you how little progress we as a country have made, regardless of the popular vote.


Peace

When he leaves office, anything that isn't fvcked up is going to be gravy.

And so, we wound up with the horrible, hateful, ignorant, destructive miserable piece-of-shit prez, who's already deep in the running for "worst ever."

It was all there, in plain sight. Oh, but the emails! The emails!

If it weren't for the electoral college...Nearly three million more still voted for her.

This was the General.

This is about people who think that she owes them something or other now.

Is that clearer?

Yes, yes, YES! I am furious at the people who call themselves "progressives" for what they did, the lies they told, the self-righteous, smug comments about how Hillary was a "flawed candidate" that they couldn't, just couldn't bring themselves to vote for. Their just couldn't go against their so-called principles.

To the Ungrateful Wrecks: YOU OWN THIS, ASSHOLES! The horror we're in right now is on you. Don't say there were other factors, of course there were, so stop trying to change the subject. YOU OWN THIS and I will never forgive you.

Hillary gave it all for US, and "owes" us not a damn thing more. Goddess bless her forever.

There needs to be one with very specific reasons why. False equivalency. Panders too much. Too inside politics. Two faced. Annoying. Etc.

He should look back at his reaction to this speech and ponder how he got it so wrong.

He's ridiculous and annoying on every level. He jokes and compulsively yells through his entire program.
A: There's nothing funny about any of this.
B: Yelling whatever comes to his mind is infantile and rude.

Can't watch him.

She. Does. NOT. Belong. On. That. Network.

Already, at 3pm Pacific time, when her Pox Noise-transplant show starts, both my husband and I grab for the remote to see who can change the channel away from MSNBC first. He finds her rather revolting, in several ways, with absolutely no prompting from me.

It just hurts my brain too much. Same with trump. Mute all three of them. Better yet, force the three of them to spend eternity listening to Kellyann Conjob.

She told us that Trump is unfit to have his finger on the nuclear button. She said he doesn't have the temperament to be president. Well, now he has his finger on the button and both Clintons need to still be fighting for our survival.

the Clintons owe us NOTHING more The electoral college, supposedly meant to prevent catastrophic presidents such as Trump, on the other hand...

I believe we are in great danger, not just as a nation, but globally. Do you share that view? This isn't a time for saying I told you so, or for blaming the electoral college or the voters. When a ship hits an iceberg, you don't waste time saying I said there was an iceberg, It should be all hands on deck, and we need the Clintons and the most powerful Democrats at this time. We need their help more than at any other time.

I don't believe that they OWE us still more. There are a lot of other progressives in prominent positions (and I don't necessarily mean the overly-idealistic celebrity types) who need to be stepping up and continuing to do so. Yes, the world IS in great danger with Trump, Bannon and Co

and I implore Hillary to make her voice heard one way or another now.

to retire from politics.

She was shamed, diminished and belittled beyond anything any of us could bear. What makes you think that would change now? Nobody from the media gave her an inch and they wouldn't now either.

She owes us nothing. I wish her peace. She's done more than her share.

Are you saying that was just lip service and now she should feel no obligation to do anything?

AND she got hosed by "liberals", the media, fellow politicians, drumpf humpers and everyone in between. She laid it all on the line and got ignored at best and ridiculed at worst every single day. No, it was not just lip service when she warned us all of the threat that we are now facing. If she said anything publicly at this point, it would be met with "lock her up" and "what about those emails, Hillary?"

What else is she supposed to do to appease you? How do you know she isn't doing anything behind the scenes right now? She has nothing to prove to you, me or anyone else. You make it sound like she has more of an "obligation" to do more than the rest of us. I think it is wrong to be critical when we don't know what she's doing as a private citizen. My guess is she's doing more than a lot of folks.

What bullshit to say what you said: "Are you saying that was just lip service and now she should feel no obligation to do anything?"

Go back and read this thread. Hillary gave us everything she had. The media squeezed her dry. The Far Left and the Far Right squeezed her dry. Trump got a billion dollars worth of free air time. What the hell do you want?

Whatever happens now is UP TO US. Go call your Senators and your Representative. Join Indivisible. DO SOMETHING, and stop waiting for someone else to do it for you.

even though the media rarely covered her policy speeches (she WAS making them) and her website was full of hundreds of pages of detailed plans.

Not making it about HIM and what he represents - TRUMPISM - is a mistake. He is that much of an existential threat.

I think it will dawn on many that who you vote for President does matter.

She was telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

She had another speech after bannon joined trump. She talked about the alt right back in august, 2016. I don't beleive anyone else talked about it. The media has completely ignored bannon and the colossal rise of neo-nazi alt right movement in the US. He took the alt right movement mainstream and now follows through their policies.

Remember, Glenn Beck said that Dugin is much worse than Hitler. Dugin's philosophy is the foundation of alt-right - read about Spencer, one of their leaders. Miller has connection to Spenser and now Miller is in WH.

I don't want you to think the only thing I took out of this post was the part about Tweety, but that is exactly why I haven't watched MSNBC (except for a few hours on the women's march) since the night of the red hats. Chris Matthews was disgusting, he would play all of Mein Trumpfs while disregarding other candidates, both republican and democratic, and the way he fawned all over KellyAnne, I thought he was going to jump her on stage. Between Tweety and Mrs. Greenspan and Chuckles the Clown, I hop them partially responsible for the pussy grabber. Along with the stupidity of the american voter.

Punching-face f'ing mad at those who voted third party, didn't vote or bitched about her not saying or doing enough.

I hope she'll be continuing to speak up for years to come.


rocktivity

Because I'm seeing way too much "BUT WHY IZNT HILLARY SAYING SOMETHINGS?!!?!1" online... I guess that trolling talking point came down through official channels...

Almost six months ago, and since then? Leaders keep trying, even if their speeches are not well received. Or is this more of the "incremental approach?"

As a recognized leader, one who has done so much for women's rights and other issues, as our former Secretary of State and candidate for POTUS, I would hope she remains active in the progressive movement. I would hope she would use her position to continue to push for justice in this world. She should be in the news every day. This is not a mainstream media conspiracy to silence her; she has chosen to remain silent.

How about her speech on the Dakota Access pipeline? (crickets)
I do remember her comments on Keystone: "I'll tell you what I think after I'm elected president."

So yes, I am bummed by her silence. She IS a role model. Time to act like one.

Frankly, if she wants to live on a pretty island somewhere for the rest of days, she deserves it...

It's not up to her to be in the news everyday, it's up to us collectively to get our shit together and our priorities straight. For caring enough about policy and being aware of dangers to our democracy. That's on us. Not her.

I don't need a politician to draw me a roadmap.

And really, she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't at this point.

for not being ideologically pure enough. And for being a corrupt, unlikable liar, in bed with big corporations. And NOW suddenly she's a "role model" and supposed to dive back in and play your game? If you had voted for her, then you'd have a right to expect action from her. You and millions of others figured you could just blow that off and then disavow the consequences, and we've seen the result.

Find your own role model. Are you holding the same expectations for the person you DID vote for in the GE?

So I've noticed. The purity stamp is administered by only one, who deems who is pure, and who is a "shill."

That worked so well for Nader, didn't it?

She can help, but isn't. And yes, I guess I do have high expectations for the President of the United States!

Who did you vote for, Ned? And have you been urging them to speak out against the president you wanted?

Show us.

...about the time she pleaded guilty to being a moderate. I have many more reasons, but it is clear I will be sanctioned for rehashing old crap. Nevermind that bit about those who forget the past....

But despite my personal rejection of her, I know she can still be a cause for good. But that means speaking up, staying involved. Take a vacation, but come back!

Sparkle on, Good Neighbor!

But you and your ilk were never prevented from voting for her.

Please do let us know, though, just how much better she would have have to be for you to prefer her over what we have now, (since you knew very well what a Trump presidency would be like). Because if you didn't want her to win, then you wanted Trump, because he was the only other candidate with a chance.

Thank you and all of your kind for that, btw. Hope your "conscience" is sustaining you.

Nor have I ever been accused of being a team player, ha.

And that either/or talk? "Only the Sith speak in absolutes."

I guess I'm at the point where I don't believe incremental change, as practiced currently, is going to save us. I had hoped that the Bush years would convince conservatives of the evil of their ways, but it is clear they cannot change. Forest fires do improve the health of a forest.

And yes, either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton was going to be president. No one with a genuine connection to reality could possibly have believed otherwise. But I guess that encompasses a lot of voters in the past election.

If you wanted reality-based possibilities for president that were not a Democrat or Republican, the arrangements for that would have required a lot of hard work on party building, starting decades ago, not the usual last-minute electoral fantasies of the uber-left. If you weren't willing to put in that kind of work, tough shit. You have no right to complain. If you actually did, but it fell short, good for you, but it still doesn't change the reality on election day, or the delusional nature of other expectations.

And your unwillingness to answer simple and direct questions is duly noted. That's always my first clue to an intellectually bankrupt argument. But throwing the country against the wall and breaking it into pieces, then crossing your fingers that those pieces will magically re-assemble themselves into something better, is not even a semblance of a political or social plan. Maybe the next four years will finally convince people afflicted wth chronic Naderitis of that fact.

Let's start with who you voted for. I voted for Clinton, and I will say that unashamedly. Can you say the same about your choice?