They think there is only one Democratic way, theirs.

Nobody here is throwing Sanders "under the bus".

Dem Politicians get criticized all the time on DU for things that they say or do.

In general the great majority of DU'ers like Bernie, doesn't mean everyone thinks he (or any other Dem) is infallible.

We're talking about everything from disdain to outright hatred here. This thread got 177 recs. This one is currently enjoying lots of love for Bernie. And let's not forget the recent outrage when he had the audacity to accept the invitation to speak at the women's convention.

In general the great majority of former DU'ers like Bernie. However, most of them are no longer active DUers.

I don't think you can dismiss all the women disturbed by the optics of that as simple minded "haters." It wasn't a simple issue and people had serious reasons to push back. I just don't think it is right to trivialize those folks' convictions.

Yeah there were too many threads about it.

At any rate the organizers and Bernie responded well to the poor decision/bad optics. Good on them! I still look forward to Bernie's speech on Women's Issue, I hope he gives it soon.

If you see disdain or outright hatred, then definitely ALERT on it. I do whenever I see it. I think it's probably just a loud handful who post a lot, I still sense that majority does not think that way.

But people needed to focus their criticism on the organizers, not Sanders, who simply accepted their invitation. But that's not what happened here. Instead, while some of the grumbling was aimed at the event itself, most of it was directed at Bernie.

EDIT: Spelling

But agree was a decision by organizers. I totally understand how they probably thought it was a great idea, I don't think they expected the backlash

Bernie is not a Democrat, so yes, there is only one Democratic way, the DEMOCRATIC way, not the independent way.

BTW, it has been demonstrated over and over that this is a bogus poll.

Whoever paid for it also paid to have it re-released once a month.

Bernie's message is true for a lot of us, and yes, I am a Democrat. But his message...that's powerful because it is TRUE.

has been the Democrats' message for years. It has been part of our platform. Most of it was featured on Hillary's website explaining her positions.

BS is very good at taking other people's ideas and making it look like those ideas are his.

BTW No one is throwing Sanders "under the bus". Certainly not DU'ers.

It only named 10 politicians in total, including 4 Democrats and Bernie. It doesn't even include Joe Biden.

1) To annoy.
2) Desperation.

It's a silly game that goes like this: cite the "poll"... poll gets debunked... eat, sleep, wake-up, coffee... repeat.

Exactly.

while neither former POTUS Obama nor his VP Biden made the cut.

It's troubling that Bannon is more popular than Obama and Biden with this group of respondents.

Here's the list of the 12 most popular political figures/politicians according to the poll.
1. Bernie Sanders
2. Mike Pence
3. Donald Trump
4. Hillary Clinton
5. Elizabeth Warren
6. Rex Tillerson
7. Nancy Pelosi
8. Paul Ryan
9. Chuck Schumer
10. Bob Corker
11. Stephen Bannon
12. Mitch McConnell

page 31:
http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/HCAPS-October_Topline-Memo_with-banners_Registered-Voters_Current-Events.pdf

when Obama and Biden were not among the politicians that were asked about?

This poll was commissioned by a client to support a narrative in order to get clicks on a website. The poll always lists exactly 12 specific political figures to rate and they never put Obama on the list.

If President Obama were on the list, the client might not get the result it's seeking.

"It's troubling that Bannon is more popular than Obama and Biden with this group of respondents. "

The respondents in this poll weren't asked about Obama and Biden.

Anyone who is concluding "X is the most popular in the country" needs to be reminded, "No, most popular on this list of 12 people, and President Obama is never included, while people like Bannon are".

But there is some buzz that Kushner wants to sell off the Observer.
- - - -
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/jared-kushner-steps-down-as-publisher-of-the-observer-2017-1
Joseph Meyer, Kushner's brother-in-law who has been the CEO of Observer Media Group since 2013, will serve as publisher.

The archived version is sourced in Turkey.

https://archive.is/c7MWw

He speaks to the populist base that has no idea how powerless and weak the president really is. We were never going to get universal healthcare, free college, higher minimum wage because everything begins in the Congress.

universal health care and education. It will happen, perhaps not in our lifetime.

the ACA was all we could get...how long before we own it all again? It will be a cold day in hell before this happens. I say this with sorrow. Better save the ACA ...it is all people will have for many years. Hell we will be lucky to keep medicare and Medicaid.

modern nation. Unless of course, our leaders decide to maintain our downward slide to third world status.

provide universal coverage if not single payer.

are taking it up. Ten years ago, it was death to talk about 'single payer.' We got Obamacare because that is what we could get.

But now, everyone's talking Medicare for all Americans, maybe even starting by reducing the age of eligibility to 55.

I will ask you the same thing I ask everyone who opines some version of 'realpolitik' when it comes to social programs that would make our lives substantially better.

Why is it impossible? Why never? If enough of us pressure Congress, then it may have a chance. But we've got to keep trying because it is the right thing to do. We should not even be having this argument - if our government really was 'of, by and for' us, the people, then those we elect would strive to do the right thing for the people, and not big business. We would have a more merciful society, one where it is not oppressive for a majority of the people as it is now. What is wrong with that?

Every time you tell me how it IS, I will answer with my vision of how it OUGHT TO BE.

group (roughly 50%) in this country who do not believe healthcare is a right. Even though I disagree with that view, I do recognize that it exists and therefore I have to work with it. If government is for the people, then those people's viewpoints should be respected as well.

It is the same with abortion, there is a large group in this country who believe that abortion is the killing of something that if left alone would produce another human life. Yet those on the left throw away their concerns and beliefs as being sexist. Same thing for gun control. There is a large group of people who do not experience a lot of crime in their community and therefore do not see a need for gun control.

This country is a center-right country. PBO discovered this and tried to govern from the center. Unfortunately he was attacked for it, even here on DU.

And at what cost? I still think the GOP and Trump feel free to attack the ACA because of the single payer / ACA divide.

socialized medicine...people like and understand the ACA...this is why we should run on it...there will never be a big single payer bill. We won't have the majorities...but we can begin with a public option and the gradual lowering of the Medicare age. The country has moved right ...like after Reagan. I hate it, hate it and hate it some more...but we have to deal with the hand we have been dealt. I like nice things but I want to get those nice things gradually if I have to. Have a great day and thanks for the thoughtful reply.

A lot of people voted for Trump and Sanders because those same people saw them as outsiders. They both waved magic wands, or in other words promised, to get their agendas done.

Both Sanders and Trump supporters wanted to start a "Revolution" in this country. Hell, some people who voted for Sanders didn't vote in the GE as they thought the election of Trump would bring on the "Left Revolution" faster then if HRC was elected.

And yes, Trump has used a lot of EO's to mess up PBO's legacy, but EO's do not change the underlining law and as soon as a Dem is elected President, that person will undo Trump's EOs.

My point is that this country has always been governed from the middle. When Sanders lost, there was no point for me to throw a fit and be like "Let it all burn to the ground". A $15 minimum wage will never happen, but a minimum wage tied to the CPI most likely would. However, the vocal 20% of the right and left demand their agenda with no compromise.

Because he speaks of rights 31 other countries and a billion citizens have without issue and gets called a "COMMIE SOSHULTITS" for it . . . . even by some supposedly under his same tent?

Hate to break this to you, but knowing the way greedy capitalists who run America are . . . if this country doesn't start adopting more liberal economic and societal policies (like Multi-Payer health care, lowering the retirement age, correcting your minimum wage for inflation and instituting a basic income for those permanently displaced by automation, disability or whatever), we're going to fast find ourselves in a dystopian hellscape with no way out. This government is SHRINKING the social safety net, not expanding it like it needs to be.

I'll wait for a more credible poll with a broader demographic for accuracy. Thanks.
But its ok, its fun anyway.

Because here in the south the parties base are minorities. And last I checked they were not big fans.

Maybe things have changed. But I will not bet on it.

Cripe Sakes, present a more credible poll source than Harvard Harris.
If I posted this on the other blogs & boards I visit I'd be laughed off the site.
At least give me something I can offer them without being totally embarassed.
Give me something & I'll carry it forward, but HHarris is like posting The Onion to these people.

You may believe & post what you like, nothing wrong with that. I just would like a source with credibility. Thats all.

I'll try to find one elsewhere.
Thanks anyway.

the bowels of the DNC.

Bernie pulls from Independents and Democrats.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029747862

Off topic I know, but worth keeping in mind

As you know some are liberal, some are rabid conservatives. Rapid Conservatives/tea party independents, unlikely to vote for a Democrat ever.

That is a fact and I like facts. The point is being factual.

along the political spectrum. Don't see how it can be argued otherwise.

Check the tables.

36% Democrats
32% Republicans
28% Independents

Choose your poll, all of her favorables were in the high 50's or low 60s (Gallup had her at 64% favorability) in 2013. http://www.pollingreport.com/hrc2.htm

Clinton has said, and one has to consider, she is well liked until she seeks power.

candidate for President they tend to do a lot of damage.

Misogyny super-fueled that damage in Hillary's case.

I don't care what he says, does or how he polls.

Once 2020 nears and other Democratic candidates emerge — younger, attractive candidates — results will change.

Last edited Wed Oct 25, 2017, 03:18 AM - Edit history (1)

institutions want is democratic socialists in office.

Of course a single poll isn't definitive, but it isn't the first time Sanders numbers have been particularly good with minorities. Do you find those results suspect?

Edit: To be fair, the poll is working with a very small pool, so this hardly proves that Sanders is the most popular politician among minorities, but it does suggest that he is generally liked by minority voters and that among those on this list he is the most popular.

And it is a Jared publication...and another poster said the results were misinterpreted. I am going to check it out. After the Women's convention brouhaha, and I am on twitter a great deal, I just don't see it.

Works tirelessly for the American people.

No good deed shall go unpunished.

I stand up for Hillary every day on this forum.
And I stand up for Bernie too.

These two people are tireless, dedicated, talented public servants.
And we should be proud and happy to have them.

It does not make the poll, or the source, any more credible.

defending too.

Bernie and Hillary are my heroes. They deserve to be treated fairly.
That is all I ask.

But yes, I was not responding to the credibility of the poll, sorry.
Though I think Bernie consistently polls well.
As does Hillary.

Responses in the thread should be about the poll and its credibility. Your post does not belong here.

Or if defending good people is offensive.

Your post was a breath of fresh air. Nothing wrong with expressing positive feelings for both Hillary and Bernie. They are both good people, fighting the good fight.

that is just bullying behavior and should be ignored.

and 5 Republicans.

This poll does NOT make Bernie the "most popular national politician." Not even close.

at this point 4 years ago.

It seems like a pretty large omission.

1. what does he represent? - CHANGE

What do people want? - CHANGE

Let's see Productivity TIED TO wages!!!

Let's see a living wage!

Let's see single payer Health Care for all.

Let's have a country worth fighting for again!

That's why people voted for trump.

Banana

everything we want...Progress will be slow in some areas and some of what I hear will never happen like the basic income...and free college tuition for all just to name two issues. Not saying the college tuition wouldn't be good if they added income requirements...but basic income...not in a million years. Single payer would require a supermajority so that won't happen for years if ever...and I would love to see some form of national insurance. I think we have a shot at a system like Germany's if we manage to save the ACA. If we don't save the ACA...we get nothing for years.

What's your point?

More people voted for Hillary than Bernie in the primary. He lost by about four million votes.

More people voted for Hillary than trump in the general. He lost the popular vote by about three million.

If you want to cheerlead for Bernie, he will be running for Senate as an independent. Just keep in mind that two men who blathered about change had nothing to offer but more of the same. They both lost to a woman, and I think they are kind of pissed off about it.

Hillary is President?

The "most popular national politician" couldn't win the Dem nomination despite being "the most popular national politician".

"Are we really going to throw our most popular candidate under the bus because of labels?"

No, we Dems rejected the alleged "most popular candidate" in the primaries - which tends to negate the idea that he was as popular as you claim him to be.

The people spoke - at what point does the "most popular politician" accept the fact that he's NOT popular?

Are you sure you are posting on the right board....

He had almost no name recognition in much of the country, very little support from major party figures and no real campaign infrastructure in place.

It would be fascinating to see how a race goes now people already know who he is.

... now that a lot of people have had their eyes opened about who he really is - which is not necessarily good for him.

It was everyone else's fault that Bernie didn't win the nomination.

Two candidates were offered - the voters chose HRC and rejected Bernie.

"Our" candidates are Democrats. Bernie is not a Democrat, regardless of his policy positions (which I readily admit are often spot on).

I just don't understand the fascination with a guy willing to take pot shots at our party every chance he gets.

I looked at it. It proves nothing...it took nationally waited samples sizes...and the numbers are a bit off too...and then some used it to conclude that this showed Sen. Sander's popularity with POC...wrong sample size. You can deduce any such thing from this poll. I would think one could find legitimate polls to prove what you believe.

In my opinion it is not a completely meaningless poll, but it's usefulness is very limited. I believe virtually all polls to some extent are "weighed" in some manner to some degree, but without more info on the methodology used it is impossible to comment on how skewed this one may or may not be.

And yes it can not lay any claim as to who is "the most popular politician" (on that day with that sample) with so few choices listed and with many glaring omissions.

I think the most that can be taken from this is that it offers some indication that Bernie Sanders remains relatively well liked, across the board, for a major political figure

It's done to make sure that the sample is closer to random. They are trying to get closer to a random sample based on their results.

sure we are!

Or some here, maybe.

But what this shows me is that controversy aside, Sanders talks about kitchen table issues - the stuff we all worry about. It is a populist message, and it scares the hell out of the capitalist establishment, because they have worked long and hard to propagandize all of us, Dems, Republicans and Independents, against even the idea of the government actually doing something that might help us.

Nonetheless, we all worry about losing our jobs, about how to pay for healthcare, which is more and more expensive. Or how to pay for college for our kids. Or why prices of stuff keep going up, up, up and our wages don't keep up. For example, I said my coverage went up 8.9% over last year, but I sure as heck won't be getting a 9% raise. I'll be lucky to get a third of that. And what if my car breaks down and I have to go into debt to pay for it?

So once again my purchasing power declines, and my sense of economic security shrinks yet again.

That's what Bernie is talking about, and that's why he is so popular. The message is real, whatever you might think of him. The prescriptions he advocates are real, and will work, whatever you might think of him.

Plus...he's written a young adults book about political revolution, and it is a best seller. He's still engaging young people.

I love it.

Pence is only 8% less popular than Bernie. So he is almost as popular as Bernie. I don't know what the MOE is could be even closer

How does this fit into your viewpoint?

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/HCAPS-October_Topline-Memo_No-banners_Registered-Voters_Current-Events.pdf


Bernie Sanders 1133
53%
Mike Pence 954
45%

We would be smart to nominate Bernie