... we're pretty much focused on using our Constitutionally guaranteed right to vote to change things, not the bear arms part.

I fear when they finally lose their gourds they'll start gunning for liberals.

I for one take a gun to the range every few weeks.

and prepare accordingly. I also agree IF they ever take it that far, they are going to discover (at least in OK, TX, MO, AR) they have underestimated their enemies. I will not, however, be a part of ANY Militia.

The privileges granted by the constitution are for any foreseeable eternity unassailable.
That is why slavery was so impossible to address democratically. It was protected as a privilege. That is what Dred Scott was about. If the South had not over reacted to the thought of tinkering with slavery, it might still exist. It could have been taxed out of existence. It might have been regulated. And the North might have bought the freedom of the Slaves, but if they were willing to die to have them, it is unlikely they would have sold them reasonably. And WHY? The commonwealth is the Commonwealth of this people and we are the law. It is for this people to democratically define property and say under what terms it shall be held. Because we leave property uncontrolled and free, it is our master instead of ourselves being its master. We work for it. It does not work for us.

Thanks...Sweeney

But I agree with you. I think armed left-wing organizations are not a bad idea at all. With the earth's resources being depleted, this country well on its way to a fascist police state, right-wing organizations running around brandishing their weapons, I think the only safe conclusion is to let them know that we're armed, too.

I am armed because shooting is fun. The political message with my weapons comes as an after thought.

You people deliberately want guns for intimidation and nothing else.

Re-read what I wrote, and quit the hysterics.

Please remove your posts if you are advocating violence or arming for political reasons.

If you want guns to hunt animals or for sport, fine. Otherwise no guns and no violence.

Because I and others regularly do so in the Gungeon portion of DU...

The founding of this country used guns for political reasons. Guns are in the Constitution, it is political by default.

Probably everyone in the kkk own guns.

Stay away from weird shady stuff and it should be fine

........I understand that you are Not promoting violence, however there are those in the radical right that most certainly are....OWS has achieved a most important goal of raising awareness of uniquely American ideals.... The powers that be will be rewarded if violence is introduced into the equation....I encourage the young adults that I am around to embrace the spirit of Federalism and keep the pressure up locally via courts as well as city council meetings....I dream of a day when all councils across the country recieve the same msg in the same week.....this is the direction I wish to see OWS take during the winter months....Peace and Best Wishes

We already enjoy the protection of our state and federal governments. Our mindset should not be to found our own left militia to counter those on the right. If we do, we will be lumped in with the bad militias in the public eye. I trust the US Army and law enforcement to deal with the militias if they get out of hand.

There are lots of examples in American history of law enforcement abuses upon the citizens.

Even today justice favors the rich.

When someone says "militia," I think Waco, Texas which casts a large shadow on private and public militias alike. Group training exercises will always be viewed by the public as a precursor to a show of force, regardless of whether this view is fair or not. This gets back to the whole credibility thing that someone mentioned earlier.

Additionally, has anyone checked the price of guns and ammunition lately? A simple "inexpensive" revolver costs several hundred dollars. Practically speaking, the Right to Keep and Bear Arms only applies to those who can afford it. Arguably, those living with the least amount of resources and government protection may be the least likely to own a gun, let alone join said militia.

Now just a gun club, without all the Soldier of Fortune stuff, fine. You can organize deer drives, shoot clays, or do Annie Oakley style competitions for all I care.

Maybe you could start a secret society of Americans who own home defense guns and don't publicize their ownership (or mask it entirely). These are the folks who would deter any occupation/enslavement, not the militias.

Sorry... but if you look at the election map...

The fascist and the idiots are ALL over the country... In every state. The foxnoise machine is running strong. And then you have idiot DEMs who don't support Obama or the policies....

The other thing that *IS* stupid are Dems trying to get republican votes.... its a waste of time. They should have been doing their job and talking to their base. And talk about the good things the DEMS have done.

A Dem in office could piss free gold, cure cancer, save 1000 babies from a burning building and would still be nothing but a turd to a teabagger.

Well like many other Progressives....I am begging for Democratic leadership that have a set of jewels that would have no problem getting right into a Rightie Politicians face and...in kind words here...tell them with strong words to go "blank themselves"..!! Truly Pelosi and Reid need to step aside and let others with a "Kick Them Between the Legs" attitude....in other words..get right back into the idiot Reeeeepublicans faces. There is a perception by many on the right that DEMS are weak...because of Pelosi and Reid. Not saying that these two are..but let's face it....humans are visual and fighters are well received by most. A "Tough Guy" persona would go a long ways toward swaying those walking the fence line between Red and Blue.

Now let me tell you about living in "Red Territory". I live in an area of Colorado where every progressive is considered a traitor/Muslim supporter/lover/gay/on welfare/black/illegal immigrant/anti Christian/tree hug'n environmentalists/non American/hates Apple Pie/blah blah blah blah blah....where for public office...you have one choice on a ballot for whatever office in the local government whether city of county and that choice is only a single Republican....no other choices period! A place so Red that those that do believe in Pro Choice...pot...staying out of wars...are non religious and know that a religion (Key word here is a religion not someone being religious!) is total B.S. etc etc and "these" wouldn't/don't vote progressive and rip those that do!! I live in an area that supports political rally's on the county courthouse as long as it is in support of the RED AGENDA and allows so-called public prayer meeting at the county courthouse and you know it....even the Republican local officials show up in support even though I know and they know and everyone here knows what a crooked SOB and drunkard and very questionable moral ethics some of these people are!! It's pathetic beyond belief!! An area that scorns social programs and yet depends...and I know these things for a fact...depends on state and federal grants to keep the ball rolling around here. In other words...these are "Takers because we deserve it and it's for us but to hell with social programs for anyone or any-where's else!!

TeaBagger Central here? Oh Baby!! Yeah....the crazy wacko's in Idaho have nothing over so many here. I bend an ear just to ease drop into what these sorts really believe....listen....these have no problem wanting to rid the nation from anything Blue...one way or another!! These do support all out purging no matter what it takes and I'm not just making this up!! Many here actually do support and want a revolution to...as they put it..."Take this County Back from them Liberals"!!

I wish I was just dreaming these things up....but I'm not...I live in "Bizarro World!! A alternate universe!

Now as for myself...I have a difficult time keeping my mouth shut...and I usually don't....but I do try to use facts in a hit'm from the blind side tactic...I bait them in first and use facts as ammo....but in the end...these people here have this Red Mentality embedded into their memory banks and it ain't a change'n!!

I suggested to my brother...who is "BLUE TO THE CORE"...and I mean BLUE!! (And could tell you a whole helluva lot about the B.S. of the RightWing in government on the federal level) that it is probably time to look into a leftwing militia group/s and for this reason...let's just say it plainly....I despise RightWingers.....but Progressives better get this through their thick heads....Righties hate our guts!! Many a Rigthie truly does want us dead and believe that there needs to be a purging by violence to rid the USA...as "they" put it....of "The Cancer"!! And this ideology is widespread throughout "Red Land"!

This is a somewhat long winded reply..but I cannot sit idle anymore and let the Red Machine to continually use a propaganda message that panders to those that want to be pandered to with the B.S. that the GOP/Reeeeeeeepublicans dump out. I'm suggesting that all of the Progressive nation better start screaming our message and knowledge...and scream for Progressive leadership that "WILL" spit right into Orange Man and Turtle Mans eyes then rip off these two idiots heads and "S***" down their necks!! I'm sick of this!! And maybe...just maybe...if there were more Left wing militia groups...the Right may start to question their own ideology.

Two years til 2016...we all had better start planning for a very active stand against the NeoCons and the Idiotic TeaBagger mentality...cause I know what these hacks want. Be warned fellow Progressive....the RightWing leadership understands how to embed their ideology into the "Sheeple of Red Land"...tell the lie and continue to tell the lie and point the blame towards the ideology this Red Machine stands against...it isn't hard do to. For those of you that have never read what Hermann Goering stated in an interview while being tried at the Nuremberg trails....look it up and read....splains it all.

I'm not sure the way to fight RW paranoia is with LW paranoia, however.

I suppose I've studied to many TeaBagger rallies such as those involving Sharon Engle in Nevada...supporters toting bibles and guns plus the incident in and around the Virgin River incident involving Cliven Bundy...rallies where attendees rising AR 15 and AK47 rifles screaming it's either Jesus or you get the gun!

What directions should progressives take....I work on firearms and target shot...have fun with it...but I do my practicing alone. Are we suppose to lay back and hope for law enforcement help to save the day when the local law enforcement are on the side of so-called Christian Conservative Patriots...hate is the number one ideology for these people.I will not be a victim of the hate the Red Men have plans laid out.

I say it is time to fight fire with bigger fire howbeit we would want the right to stop the propaganda and become common sensed.

Though I have to say...within 7 to 10 years when fusion is up and running...areas such as this one will die out....it's the coal gig....fusion power will torpedo coal...people will move away and their destructive ideology will be absorb into the blue of this state of Colorado. this can be seen in less than 20 years it appears.

I/WE may despise Reeeepublicans....I certainly do not want a civil war...but has "D less" Limbaugh spews out words for big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ solidifies the sheeple of the Right that are armed and waiting for a social breakdown.....we'd all be screwed but I see these crazies and these mean what they barf out in the G.D. ideology ofa Religious War.

It's called self preservation on my part and for my son/daughter and grand children. And I have been letting the bird brains know just that....I fell compaled to let these hacks know that trouble will visit if these try messing with my family or myself.

And yes...less than a year and we are history here!! F'n history!!!

Denver metro here

Clearly the right made a Herculean, Citizens United-esque, effort to overwhelm the recent, low turnout, midterm Congressional elections... and succeeded. I'm guessing that your November 7th reply is basically your reaction to those election results. Indeed, it seems that the next Presidential election is our only hope in the near future. And yes... there's the issue of recent Dem's gone Blue Dog, playing the polls against President Obama. I suspect that we're all disgusted here. Having said that, I really don't see how forming left wing militias will better our position, if that's what you're advocating.

I'm guessing that things would be different had the multitude of folks who put President Obama in office voted in their respective midterm elections. Of course, this would've required a grassroots movement within each state that was up for grabs. In this regard, the GOP plan was rather well devised.

And since I'm off topic already...

The way I see it, it's all about the DNC Presidential Primary. All preliminary indications are showing that Bernie Sanders (I) will be flipping to (D) and running to win in 2016. We all need to stop acting like the Clinton Dynasty is a Clinton Destiny.

Self defense is essential, but passive rather than active. You can see the progress in history from bearing arms being natural and universal, to it being an obligation of citizenship, to it being a right, and finally to being an endangered right. It may be true that the right, the rich, and the powerful fear violent revolution, but revolutions are not violent, or need not be violent. It is reaction that is violent, and in fact, many revolutions begin as reactions to reactions.

The counter revolution by the nobles preceded the French Revolution in France. Bankruptcy is another precursor to revolution. In any event, insurrection is not revolution, and revolution requires no violence. If violence is required it is made necessary by violent reaction and reaction is always violent.
Revolution is a change of forms as the Declaration of Independence makes clear. People right themselves and in the process right their social forms. But the horse before the cart is the people righting themselves.

We agree in fact that something has to change. We are at odds with the right over the direction of change, but I would urge the left to get out of their way. The difficult thing to do in life is to overcome the natural and universal conservatism of all of humanity. It is not necessary to have set the course of human progress. The challenge is to overcome the inertia of the human mind. First get things falling, and get the hell out of the way, and then help to set up a society that will work for left and right and middle. Many on the right see the corrosive effect of money in politics. Many on the right see the impossibility of making partocracy work when party must be moved to move government. Many on the right want as much as the left to shuffle the deck of the commonwealth so it serves once more this people. So what if the tea party is serving fruit cakes. They make good points and where they make them they should be encouraged. This is the stars wars strategy: Let the wookie win.

If you want violent revolution you are on your own, and I hope you are an army of one. Because the government is looking for you and looking at you, and as soon as you organize which every lilly livered wanna be revolutionist does, they are all over you. Don't organize. Disorganize. Resist. Learn to resist as an individual. All that is keeping the government going is momentum. It is falling as we speak. Prepare to defend yourself, not against your government, but against the breakdown of law. Think about what you want for the future. Help me to write a new constitution and try to gain wide spread acceptance of it. Revolutions are typically dangerous to follow, but deadly to lead. Let the people do the hard part, and take the credit if you are the sort. Do not point a gun in the direction of the government, or I will rat you out. Do nothing to keep the beast alive.

As much as in Anglo Saxon England, the society rests on three legs like a stool. It rests on the government, on the churches, and on the economy. Hate them all, resist them all; but do not raise a hand against them because it only empowers them. Form new relationships and learn who you can trust. Think as a man. No one gets ahead by getting even. Make your enemies your friends because there are simply too many of them to do otherwise with.

Revolt is sowing the wind. You cannot determine the course of revolution or its likely outcome. You cannot tell people what forms they think will work best for them, but if they have the power of democracy they can correct all mistakes. No matter what general form of relationship people have, they will invariably cut their own deals much as people in the South do to their great disadvantage with employers. People did this under hitler and stalin as well.

Ideologies and laws are mere suggestions. With the smallest amount of freedom people will remake their worlds following their own inclinations. This behavior should be encouraged rather than discouraged. Revolution should always free rather than constrain. Never support the tyranny of the ideal. Live without ideals, without ideal forms. Seek the practical solution. Encourage people to make their own deals. Never try to dictate any portion of anyones life. Make government the court of justice for the people. Encourage justice everywhere and in all situations, and all will be well.

...the Guard gives you training, organization and the means to defend the Constitution.

While the Guard *has* been used to suppress unions and political protests, the problem there is the political leadership that gave it the wrong orders. For the most part, the Guard is a people's militia and very useful, as during desegregation and in natural disasters.

If you leave the Guard to be populated by rightwingers, you are surrendering a very valuable institution. Don't give up prematurely; instead, get involved.

You need to understand the history of the left in this country. Most left/liberal political groups that were active in the 1960s were infiltrated by the FBI and other local and federal police agencies. Google COINTELPRO, Tommy The Traveler or Geronimo Pratt and read about how the FBI and others were able to disrupt legal political activities. A standard tactic, used hundreds of times, was to send an undercover agent or informant to join and become influential in these groups and then act as a provocateur by advocating illegal actions such as bomb making, arson, and assassinations of the police and other political figures. The rational was often, well the right wing does this so we have to fight fire with fire, etc.

Unfortunately, this tactic was often successful. Groups that were making real progress towards their goals were broken up and destroyed. Many activists were jailed and lives were ruined.

A word to the wise for political activists: Assume that any left political group that you belong to is infiltrated by the cops. Do not advocate weapons use or training. Do not fall for that trap.

wake me when peace comes to those countries where everyone has a shotgun

. . guns are vital for a free people. However, I think an organized left wing militia will attract mentally unstable people, and neurotic extremists. Same as communes do. Same as right wing militias do. Furthermore, the very existence of a left wing militia will be used to create fear propaganda by righties.

organizing non - militant, pro-gun liberal clubs, I wouldn't see any issues with that. Although I would be reluctant to join one myself. From what I know, there are already a few pro gun liberal organizations.

The people who are associating militia with violence are incorrect and need to go back and do some research. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a group of people exercising their 2nd amendment rights who think differently than 3% and other militias out there that believe the black lives matter movement is so covert army for Muslims...(an actual belief by some oathkeepers). A militia is not about over throwing the government or going around causing havoc. Its about people with like minded goals coming together to uphold the constitution and make sure that our liberties are not trampled. I do not trust my government as you can see, cops are killing people of color left and right and no one is being held accountable. You want me to put my trust in them to protect me and my rights? WOW I support you erroneousmaximus and anyone else that shares your point of view. We need to do it ASAP. Until then the liberal gun club is what I plan to join. I do not have the time nor patience to try and start one from scratch.