Frankly, I would like to see "comments" to be allowed again for that category. Not for people commenting on their jury decision, but rather allowing the alerter to explain why the post is offensive. You even said:

in my years in the du hot tub i received quite an education, and i'm so glad for it.
lots of people abused the comment option in the old days, airing grievances and grinding their personal axes. it could easily undermine the blind jury process, but i just learned so much.

comments of why we're alerting for all the rules.

💙💛

The excuse/reason given was people were abusing the alert comments. What that means, I haven't a clue. In the SCORES of juries I was called to before the rule change, I only recall one alert that was problematic. Now, the comments in the section for the jury decisions, there I saw a number of problems and actually alerted on comments made by the jury. While I did enjoy it (commenting as a juror), in real life, juries don't make comments in the gallery, they just issue a decision, but they make their decision based on what the prosecution (alerter) offered.

missing. Some abused that opportunity, however, I do admit.

I've dropped out of juries because I had no idea what the issue was, and struggled with others, trying to figure it out th best I can. I feel that if I'm not learning, I'm dying a little, and it's not east to look into someone's heart who has experiences which are inconceicable to me. And I say that as someone who is old enough to tremember Christine Jorgenson, with the reaction, "Sure, this happens, what's the big deal?" while others around me are freaking out.

And things change. Vocabulary changes - Skip Gates once said, "My grandparents were Negro. My parents were colored. And me? I'm Black. I've lived through all of those terms and more. I'm not embarrassed to say I could use more guidance, whether I'm the juror or the offender (which I have been once or twice.)

Restorative justice is the best kind.

from the limited info with which we're presented, whether the alert was made in good faith or was an attempt to disrupt. Therefore, I always hesitate to answer that question, and have sometimes even backed out of jury duty because of that.

but how are we to know? If the alert is so ridiculous that I can not fathom anyone mistaking the original post for something not totally benign, I suppose that would fit. But, having had posts of my own misinterpreted over the years, I think such mistakes are the rule, rather than malign intent.

1. they have no connection to the Jury.
2. if their alerts fall, after a few fails, their alerts do no got through.
3. If their pattern of alerts demonstrate stalking, they get sanctions.

Sometimes We are given so little information when asked to sit on a jury.

Even with the expanded version of the comments provided, sometimes I am still not sure how to vote.

I think we need to be given the option to see the entire diary/post/threads/etc.

I have actually resigned from some jury service because I just didn’t have enuf information to go on. Context is everything. And some comments are just not clearly either right or wrong.

I am talking in general terms, not just bigotry issues.

As an aside, IRL, when you sit on a jury, you have seen the entire case, not just one or two witnesses, and maybe a few facts most directly related to the case.

lots of evidence and witnesses can and are excluded from their knowledge for various reasons.

Factored in to their jury decision?

I’m not clear how the jury makes their verdict on witnesses and evidence they don’t have.

What I am saying is that a jury gives their verdict based on the witness and facts they are provided. And we should mirror that here at DU. I wish to see the whole thread/diary/comments etc. Otherwise, I can’t make a proper decision about guilt or innocence.

You can still block posters. If you feel something is out of line let the Admins know about it. The Admins should then deal with it. If you don't like enough of their decisions, try and get new Admins are leave the site. The jury system here is a random and often kangaroo court.

... it's not encouraged because seeing the names of the participants can encourage votes based on grudges or favor, or even stalking.

If a verdict is bad it can be appealed and I've had two of own hidings reversed.

This place has a lot of ways and leeways. One reason I love it so much.

I've only had one vote I regretted when I saw the whole threat and I asked that Admin to look at it and they unhid the post.

As a retired mental health professional and ally (my daughter is bi-sexual) I feel quite remiss that I cannot always keep up with the latest information concerning LGBTQ issues.

I very much want to do the right thing and appreciate any and all help.

Ignorance is a problem. Hell, I had to look up some of the words in your post! That said, not knowing hasn't stopped me from seeing bigotry, even innocent due to no exposure, when it happens.

On a personal note: I grew up in a horribly bigoted home. The best I can say about my mother is that she was an equal opportunity bigot . . . she hated every minority equally. I didn't discover how racially and religiously insensitive I was until I spent two years in the army. I'm surprised nobody threw a blanket over me and beat me with a bat.

We are taught to be what we are both actively and passively. It's something we all need to actively work on.

Helping to move this forum forward.

The Republican next to him pipes up, “I don’t believe in that!” Right next to him. Before his very eyes..

I don’t believe in “it”. Geezus.

I will remain vigilant regarding this issue.

We may not always get it right, but sure as hell, we're always working to get there.

It's not that I do not accept my grandaughter's same sex marriage. I do. Their wedding was exactly the way they wanted it to be, not what the wedding industry would provide. The problem I have is grammar. He and she are single persons. They and them are more than one person. The fact that one may not identify as a he or she or both is ok. I just wish they had found a new term that didn't coopt the traditional meaning of they and them. I will certainly try to get used to it, but I know that my training of so many years will cause me to slip up now and then. Sigh.

Last edited Mon Jun 20, 2022, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)

How about when people bash and ridicule Christianity and mention the imaginary “sky-daddy”? Because it seems these posts are allowed to stay.

ETA I meant write ”I think” not “If I think…””.”

not the same.

And thank you, EarlG, for taking this step.

"Persecution" per se is on the rise in nations with Christian minorities.

But I believe the poster was referring to Christians in America and the degree with which they claim they're victims of persecution merely because of the criticism they receive from open displays of Christ-centered homophobia, misogyny, racism and other whacked behavior that is sourced to the bible.

So, yes, in the context of the established Christian culture in the United States today, it is a fair statement that "nobody is out there persecuting xtians".

Given the rise of Republican power and the hyper-right in the current era, Christians are, in fact, chief persecutors in the US today.

That term and others do not belong at DU.

specifically Abrahamic Monotheism.

It's not attacking Hindu Gods - well, maybe Vishnu.

And plenty of posts happily insult christians or christianity. I don't alert on posts because I don't care & peoples opinions don't bother me whether I like them or not.
But if you're going to make a rule it should apply to EVERY group.

:

and a large portion of them are actually quite the opposite. Oppressive assholes that would take this country to a very dark place if they had their way.

this is a Democratic message board and everyone should be treated equally. There are Christian democrats here.

The size of a group DUers may be categorized with in derogatory remarks does not excuse bigotry.

Ascribing attitudes and behaviors unacceptable here to all Christians for instance, knowing full well that many DUers are Christian, is as bad as doing the same for any other group, religious, racial, gender, nationality, etc. Those posters think they're getting away with something, and currently are.

It's wonderful that we're extending this better protection to our trans members. DU can and hopefully will insist on protection against bigotry for all members.

explained it fully.

Never express one beautifully concise thought if a whole stream of consciousness can run on instead.

Glad for everyone who realizes allowing indulgence of shopping cart choices in bigotry is not a stand against it.

institutions, including religions can often be deservedly ridiculed and criticized. same for silly beliefs. of course you are free to alert on posts you think are offensive.

THIS thread is about a group that are TRULY a persecuted minority. that experiences REAL bigotry. LIFE and DEATH type of threats, not silly rhetorical whining by a majority group.

the what-about-me crap in this thread is disgusting.

if you don't want to get called out on your belief in magic and how that belief should inform public policy; you should keep your fingers to yourself. Religion is a choice. But, when in Rome...

religion, but my religion informs my voting.

Feed the hungry.

Care for the poor.

Care for the sick.

Take care of children.

And your comment about magic illustrates my point. No need.

I missed the part where it states it only applies to a persecuted minority. Can you highlight that portion for me?

Why we have this rule: Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes people of every race, sex, religious belief (or lack thereof), sexual orientation, gender identity, body type, disability, age, etc. We want to promote a welcoming atmosphere for all of our members, and do not want to provide a platform for bigotry.

Jesus Christ.

mirrors all their other values, including ableism, sexism, racism, and so on?

Is it ethically & morally right to ignore that?

This thread isn’t about *your* anecdotal subjective experience. It’s about something greater; a *community* experience of systemic anti-trans ignorance and bias.

concern me at all. I commented.

Our trans brethren deserve every kindness and protection. As I wrote, I agree with this.

I find the rules are unevenly applied and asked a question.

Happy to read all about *you* — elsewhere. This thread isn’t the place.

It’s about many of us.

Thanks for your input.

Think about it.

I’ll be sure to DM you first.

Since you do not seem to be able to read the room.

expresses or believes those ideas. It is not a personal attack. If your feelings are hurt by people who find your religious ideas ridiculous that is really just your problem

You are absolutely correct in your observation.

I support this 100%. Thank you to IngridsLittleAngel for taking up the mantle of change and thanks to you, EarlG, for making it so.

I have a trans child and even I can sometimes "miss" what is clearly transphobia. This is a good reminder to remain vigilant.

I had no idea we had Trans bigotry going on here

And some of us aren't doing a good job.

I find it pretty confusing to not know how my colleagues have been assessing the situations when I am called upon to be a juror.

Do I seem to have a blind spot about certain issues?
Maybe a quarterly review would be in order?

There are Hosts - DUers who volunteer - who can lock threads. They can't delete posts, though. There's also a group of volunteers who monitor and ban trolls.

About trans athletes. It has been very blatant - but couched as concern for women athletes (i.e. the subset of women athletes who are XX, or cis) having to compete against all those male hormone enhanced muscles. When challenged, the response suggests that anyone who believes trans women should be allowed to participate in women's sports is mysogynistic

But misinformed on how treatment works. Blockers and hormones replacement does alter the body drastically than most wanna believe. The muscles weaken, the body can actually reshape in size and weight. But most do not do basic research

Roughly six weeks of Spironolactone (the first four weeks at 50mg/day, now at 100mg/day) has reduced my strength and muscle mass. There will obviously be further drops in both once we start HRT in early August.

Some of the trans women I know have had their hands, feet, shoulders and other parts of their body shrink between blockers and HRT. Some have to buy all new shoes because they dropped 1-2 shoe sizes. Some have lost a couple inches off their height.

Altering a person's body chemistry can have drastic effects upon their body and shape. If the use of steroids and HGH and male hormones can enlarge Barry Bonds' body and head (to where he needed a cap 2-3 sizes bigger), female hormones are going to do the opposite.

I lost 2 sizes in my shoes. I had to purchase all new boots and sneakers. And I can still lose sizes. I love hormones lol wonder drug

I do like my boots, and have tended to get them 1/2 size larger to begin with, figuring doing so will keep from utterly crunching my toes inside of them. Now I'm wondering if 6-12 months from now my feet will be swimming in them and I'll have to get new ones.

Only time will tell, I guess. It's still a small price to pay to wind up being a lot closer to who I am inside.

Thank you, I'll BOLO for that.

WE do need reminders at times here. We are ALL good people here. Just need reminders of where we are at.

Thank you.

You admins have it here as a feature here and not a bug. That's a pretty stunning (and great) accomplishment these days.

It's been awhile since that category has been updated.

Our trans DU members Rock!

Is it using the name they were given that is inappropriate for their real gender identity?

dead name
[dead name]

VERB
deadnaming (present participle)
call (a transgender person) by their birth name when they have changed their name as part of their gender transition:
"he was addressed with the wrong pronouns and dead-named"

https://www.bing.com/search?q=deadnaming+definition&form=ANNTH1&refig=4ea647d129eb432a90067a99ffd1b2a8&sp=2&qs=LS&pq=deadnaming&sk=LS1&sc=8-10&cvid=4ea647d129eb432a90067a99ffd1b2a8

That's what I figured.

I'm sorry to hear this sort of thing has been doing on here. I hope this adjustment fixes it.

because it's not the name the person has chosen consistent with their actual gender identity. So if a person was given the name "John" at birth but no longer identifies as male and has taken the name "Jane," if you keep calling them John you are disrespecting and effectively refusing to acknowledge their true gender.

If the conservative Republican members of my family have graciously accepted a gay member and a non-binary member, it seems that we should be able to it here as well.