A word about the ongoing Democratic presidential primaries
This discussion thread was locked by Skinner (a host of the Announcements group).
After last night's primary results I think it's safe to say that the shape of the 2016 general election is starting to come into focus. On the Republican side, Donald Trump holds a commanding lead and will likely secure his party's nomination. On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton continues to maintain a significant delegate advantage. She has not yet collected the 2,383 delegates necessary to claim the nomination, so technically it is still possible for Sanders to win. But the chances of that happening are exceedingly small, barring some sort of unexpected event that completely changes the fundamentals of the race.
So what does this mean for Democratic Underground?
Given that neither Democratic candidate has collected the necessary delegates to win, and neither candidate has suspended their campaign, it is still primary season on Democratic Underground. Members are free to support the Democratic primary candidate of their choice here on DU while the candidates themselves are still actively campaigning for the nomination.
But we also understand that many DUers -- even as they continue to support their preferred primary candidate -- are starting to turn some of their attention to the general election that is starting to take shape. I know it is something of a cliché to say that this year's election is the most important in a generation, so I'm not going to say that. But I think it goes without saying that this year is unique in that our likely opponent espouses a toxic mixture of unvarnished racism and incitement to violence that many of us had believed (wrongly) was beyond-the-pale for a major party candidate. Given such a repellent choice on the other side -- a candidate that displays outright contempt for many of the core values of this country and this website -- I have no doubt that every DU member will, in time, get past the divisiveness of the Democratic primary and vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is. To do otherwise is unthinkable.
I understand that many of you are not ready to think about the general election yet, and that's fine. But to those of you who are starting to think about the need to get past the division and start to think about healing, I think it is important that we begin to tone down the most divisive and over-the-top rhetoric about our primary candidates and their supporters. And in case it's not clear, that goes for both candidates.
For the last four years we've allowed you all, via the Jury system, to set the standards for where you think the line should be drawn at DU, without interference from Admins. The system worked pretty well for a long time, but I think most people would agree that it has been stretched beyond the breaking point during the last few weeks of primary season. I knew there was a risk in sticking with this system in a highly-charged partisan environment, but we decided to place our faith in the members of DU -- believing that most DU members would be able to take off their candidate-supporter hats when serving on juries and make a good-faith effort to be fair to everyone regardless of candidate. I do not believe my faith was misplaced, but in hindsight I think that it was very difficult for individual jurors to hold the line against the worst-of-the-worst when it felt like standards everywhere on the site were in freefall. And let's be honest: Some of you have been serving on juries in a nakedly partisan fashion.
With this in mind we have been working on some significant changes to the Jury System which we think you will approve of -- I'm not going to go into the details because we're still working on it. Let's just say the focus is on reducing drama, providing better guidance for jurors, and setting clearer standards that better lay out our expectations for what Democratic Underground should be. Unfortunately these changes are still a couple of weeks to a couple of months away from being ready -- at which point the primary race should be pretty much over. Until then, we are going to implement some short-term changes to get us through primary season.
The short-term changes
We still believe that the vast majority of DU members are perfectly capable of participating in a productive way, and serving on juries in a non-partisan way. But given the pervasively negative tone of discussions here, we think it would be wise to provide a greater incentive for people to do so. Going forward if we see anyone voting to leave the worst-of-the-worst posts, or voting in a nakedly partisan fashion to hide posts which are clearly legitimate, then we will remove that person's ability to serve on juries. (We are not going to provide any notification to members who lose their jury privileges, because under the messed-up values of primary season we think many of you would see it as some kind of badge of honor.)
So, please, do the right thing when serving and let's clean this place up a bit.
We've also decided to try removing the current "five hides and you're out" restriction, mainly because we suspect that members would be more likely to vote to hide bad behavior if they didn't feel like one of their friends might get canned over it. So while members can still be flagged for review for getting posts hidden too quickly, there's no more five-hide suspension. And anyone who is currently suspended for getting five hides is able to post again as of now. We reserve the right to change this decision if it seems like it's having the opposite effect to what was intended.
And also we are not going to feature discussion threads on the DU homepage if they are posted in the General Discussion: Primaries forum, or in either of the two primary candidate supporters' groups. We are no longer interested in featuring the most divisive content on the front page of this website.
And so on to the part I'm sure you're all really interested in...
Who are we purging?
Nobody. However, if we see anyone puffing up Trump they will have to go do it someplace else.
tl;dr
General election season is on the horizon but the race is not over. Primary season continues. Nobody is getting purged unless they're Trump-humping. In an effort to improve the level of discourse we're going to remove Jurors who make terrible decisions (either voting to leave the worst-of-the-worst posts, or voting to hide clearly innocuous posts).
We'll be back with more news when we have some. In the meantime, let's all enjoy the fact that 2016 is shaping up to be a big year for progressives and a car wreck for conservatives.
PS. Fuck Donald Trump.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Puffy trump-humpin fluffers! That's the code name for trumps army.
As a heterosexual female (albeit absurdly elderly and ridiculously unattractive), all I can say is 
we value your opinion even if you cannot vote against him! 
Take that nonsense elsewhere.
Also welcome back sheshe2, Magggie, KMOD, a couple of others!
It's like an early birthday present.
It's like Bastille day! 
I didn't even know he was gone until he just posted.
:
my wayward son 
incredibly disappointed by this. 
Bravenak's biggest fan will soon have something -- anything -- to talk about again.
You know you need to be in AA right now.
so glad to see this change
I like that the home page will no longer include posts made "in either of the two primary candidate supporters' groups." (I even actually made that suggestion at http://www.democraticunderground.com/12599720 ) - but I think removing all GD
from the front page takes it a bit too far, at least at this point. There's still lots of good conversation to have about the primaries, and I think taking out the "group" posts would naturally tend to greatly diminish the most partisan by itself.
But the fact still remains that she hasn't gotten the nomination yet, so we'll have to see who ends up in whose cabinet.
He also said he's smart. Said that many, many times. And you know if someone repeats something many, many times, that makes it true. That's called logic.
(
Really it is. Please don't purge me.)
attack...... plain and simple. It's really not hard to determine
are in some sort of agreement. 
I especially like that you're removing GDP and candidate group threads from the home page. I had those forums/groups hidden and was often distressed to see the vitriol break through to the home page.
I appreciate your patience and fairness....and yes, fuck Trump!
It was like looking in on Free Republic! For that alone I thank the Admins.
But I am most happy to see that several of my favorite posters can no longer be alert-stalked in order to be deliberately silenced when they try to discuss issues that are important.
Those posters and their ideas are worth heeding, whichever candidate one supports. If anyone is offended, all they have to do is to put the poster on "Ignore" so that others who appreciate them can enjoy their participation.
Fingers crossed that the tone generally improves! 
Trump will sue you for using the F word?
I was out so many times because of every post I made being alerted on - it never failed.
It was really silly - people pm'd me asking, wtf??. Some people desperately need to get a life.
But, no more! Woot!!!!
who too often have posted in fear of a 5th alert, like bmus, Segami, you, Fawke Em, pine box, et. al. (please forgive my inability to easily call up names -- I love ALL good Bernie supporters )
So glad for this! 
Plus, we can always put the intolerables on ignore. 
I guess they can still do it, but it won't be quite as satisfying. 
Glad to see cali and others will be back!!
It's only H supporters and people of color who are alert-stalked. They are just so victimized. 
And it's all due to those evil BernieBros. They claim it over and over again, so it must be true.
'We're being silenced!, bring out another cross'
* me.
Cali and others are back too now though, not sure if she cares anymore - certainly the Admins did nothing to stop what we all knew was happening to her. (To have a mole inside their 'Grumble', now that since all those screenshots they've hidden all their little plans up. lol. God ....... talk about needing lives).
I still stand by my original statement.
No loop holes for you.
to you Skinner, and the rest of the gang.
Glad to get rid of the 5 hides your out.
A second because, okay, I cussed at a guy who I believed was a true idiot ( IMO) and a third because I quoted a member with their moniker as if it's criminal to quote and 'call out' a member.. I love D.U. and have been here for many years, but I think that's weak. Oh yeah, two others were just a little too insulting to HRC followers.
Does that make me deserving 90 days no commenting? I've read far, far more insulting things since then that never got hidden..
Thanks for the pardon!!!!!
Well done!!!
and 
And you never would have been banned from the Hillary Group!
I agree with Don Coquixote as well. You do what you need to, to get this board in order. It is YOUR board, and we are your guests.
do you consider that to be puffing up Trump? Because I am not puffing him up.
It's just fact.
I mean it no, please whatever will I do without your wisdom. ✌
however I know Donald will use that and likely point out so and so connections so if it's not said, and he comes up with the BS and we don't know about it so we can counter it. he could end up winning and I sure as f**k don't want that. He crossed said line long ago. I've only stated who I won't vote for. and thats just one person. I will continue to vote for all the others with D or Left leaning people Congress on down. and what Bernie wants is for us to change bottom up. I don't think he even imagined he'd be in the race but I think when say in DU the Hillary people started banning people they didn't agree with. That struck a nerve and Hillary had already been doing that. So healing? First think I'd think would go is for the Hillary supporters here to unban people for awhile and set up some system of having warnings before ultimately banning someone. However this brings me to something you said Skinner " And also we are not going to feature discussion threads on the DU homepage if they are posted in the General Discussion: Primaries forum, or in either of the two primary candidate supporters' groups. We are no longer interested in featuring the most divisive content on the front page of this website. " that would help behind words. Fairly sure I've been banned outright because I responded to so and so's group thinking it was general discussion. Like all the cliche'd old jokes about walking into a gay bar and not knowing it X_X although if I walked into a room of Republicans I sure wouldn't prove them right. I'd get right in for a chat. I'm trying to stave off a clinical depression brought on by not being employed since Oct 20 2008 (yeah before Obama was elected and partially brought on by a dad who said mom and i were going to hell for voting for. thus 2009 was pure hell. name calling every day of every week of every month of every year all because some marriage couselor decided he wanted to try Psychiatry and almost got legally in trouble for operating w/o a license. Summer 2009... the Psychs, my Psychs have yet to fix that problem. 7 yrs later 
something akin to I use people for my own needs and drop them dead when I don't need them anymore thus to dad I'm the most selfish person alive except I've got to hell and back thinking he desperately needs a dog for his health. I still think this because 2 years ago he osconded a dog wandering around (lost dog) had him for about 6 hours till neighbors went calling for him. Pip? oh LOTR Pippens okay Mary. (sp) But I say this so that people understand why I can get irate sometimes.
These are my views. You can't change them however you can prove me wrong. That may or may not make sense. ie I have views... it's up to whoever to prove me wrong.. Yes I have panic attacks. I also come from a rather conservative faith background. So somewhere between Lutheran and George Carlin , rare to get offended unless it's something faith based.
I wish Liberals the best of luck. Using any other word just won't work this year. Maybe another year but again my opinion.
If anything this gives carte blanche to post even vile OPs and replies since there won't be any repercussions of getting a hide.
The jury system needs an overhaul for sure, but removing the deterrent, well, let's see how that pans out.
Last edited Thu Mar 17, 2016, 01:08 AM - Edit history (1)
The 5 hide rule was great, and I can already tell the barriers have dropped.
Thanks Skinner. Fuck Trump, and Ron and Rand Paul, too.
Response to Skinner (Original post)
I believe some posters have been banned over primary related threads that were the result of too many bullshit hides.
I'd love to see you re-consider some of those too please
Look up the difference between "advocacy" and "pledge"
Look up "infallible" and "objective."
Have a stout in honor of St. Pat's Day.
Do whatever else you have you to do to help yourself get past this terrible tragedy in your life of yardwork's post being wrong.
the third way 
This was exactly what I needed to see.
THANK YOU!!!
Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:13 PM - Edit history (1)
Good God. SMH.
And on edit.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10132863
In this thread. It is only going to get worse.
...and over-the-top rhetoric about our primary candidates and their supporters."
but I'm afraid of getting my hand slapped if I make the "wrong" jury decision.
Hear me out: I'm a Bernie supporter, but don't like any of our candidates being maligned, I've never alerted in my life, I vote to hide posters who say crappy things about either candidates or their supporters, and will happily vote for Hillary in the general election. I *think* I've been very fair with my decisions.
I can easily tell what the worst of the worst is, but what about ambiguously innocuous posts? I might, say, vote to hide a post where someone says "fuck you!" or "you're a loser" - those seem obvious.
Will it hurt my future opportunities to adjudicate if I decline opportunities to be on a jury for a short time?
I know, I'm the only one of thousands who worry about this, but give me a break, I grew up Catholic
Thanks, Skinner
Whether it is aimed at my preference or not. And yeah, some of the juries have been hit with partisanship of the overt kind...I'll be glad when it's over!
Much appreciated.
YES!
I'm sure that the hosts of the Hillary group would consider your request. However, you might want to consider reading in the group for a while before deciding whether or not you want to be a member. Being "Hillary curious" doesn't sound very supportive, at first glance. Just saying.
especially the part about GD: P threads on the homepage where one glance and a visitor would have thought they stumbled onto Free Republic.
I had gotten my account restricted because of blatantly partisan hides that I thought were ridiculous, I don't think the jury system can function in GD-P because of partisan voting by jury members.
Oh, and DEFINITELY fuck Trump!
or a grave dancing thread is is thuggish, trollish and ugly, as are, IMO, all nasty comments on such threads.
"Goodbye, Felicia" when Jeb drops out of the primary, on the other hand.....
But something had to be done and this seems to be a good start.
Good luck, Skinner.
I won't fuck Trump, he's waaay to skeezy, and I'm an old married woman, who loves her husband-
Hopefully this will help return some civility/sanity to DU.
managed a forum that had about 20 members and even that was a headache at times. I can't imagine trying to run this place and I really appreciate all your hard work and carefully considered management of the joint. Thank you for dealing with us and for providing us with an awesome community.
"We are no longer interested in featuring the most divisive content on the front page of this website." Amen to that. Obviously by my avatar and sig I support Hillary but I also love Bernie and can't imagine trying to tear down one of our own. It hurts me to see it here.
Thanks again for all your hard work
"...on the front page of this website."
Unrec Smartbomb for the win!!!
I've made it a point to watch how I am handling my actions, I will keep that focus and continue to do better. We're better than the behavior as of late.
... they can no longer as easily get posts hidden they don't like?
I especially liked the last sentence.
switch their affiliation, or not show up, as in Iowa. So doesn't primary season end when the democratic candidate is officially the nominee at the convention?
Except for my accusers most of my Sanders supporting friends agreed the first two timeouts were bogus.
I had no idea so many people were on timeouts. I think posting in GDP enough and anyone eventually ends up there. I'd only just waded in there recently. I'm really glad Skinner made this change. It's good to see you back
Looking at the posts I know you were really out of it.
You're still one of the best posters here in my eyes.
The shit you used to put up with and the way you handled it always impressed me. Hope to see you back at it again. It was inspiring.
F*** You Donald Trump
Honk------------------fora political revolution Bernie 2106
... if they continually alert on posts that clearly do not violate any TOS (e.g. alerting in a nakedly partisan manner)? A "bad alerter" rule could be a sort of corollary to the effort to remove "bad jurors."
Or is there already something in place to take care of that problem? 
I was just thinking that too many bogus alerts can surely "demonstrate a pattern of disruptive behavior over time" just as much as too many jury hides.
Anyhow, I hope the new rules and new jury system help!
And I'll definitely be voting.
================
Now here to make money and support causes that I may agree or disagree with. It's whatever. I don't take it too seriously.
Whether they deserved to be hidden depends on how thick ones skin is I suppose.
I probably would have voted to hide at least on the Dolores Huerta one because it propagated the false meme that Bernie supporters are racists. One translation of "Probrecito" is something like "poor baby", so I can see why someone took offense. The Cornel West one: Some people consider him a progressive figure, and attacking a progressive figure in such a way is always risky.
The other two hides I do not understand, but that does not mean they had no merit. It is conceivable that the jurors had access to more information than me.
I should add that as far as I know this particular member has openly admitted to posting on DU in order to generate negative responses (which is the original definition of "trolling" , so I am not overly surprised or worried that the jury system ended up placing her on a timeout.
Let us not confer some sort of exalted status upon people who host because they want to host, not because they are somehow saintlier than the rest of us scrubs. Hosts deserves hides many, many (almost TOO many times). And no, I don't know who you are referring to. That just stuck out at me.
...FUCK Donald Rump!
PEACE! 
And, fuck Donald Drumpf!
I agree with the fuck Trump comment though.
Only with a ten foot long rusty spiked sewage pipe.
And a hazmat suit.
Reddit.
rather than wasting your valuable time on these piddly-assed little sites, and having to deal with peons like me.
Did you miss me that much? Dream about me often?
And you have what, 15,000 posts total? And most of those are complaining about other posters.
Oh, and fuck Trump too. 
That has a nice ring to it.
who the voters actually voted for.
If they are promoting Trump, or, as herding cats suggested, pass on your suspicions to someone currently on MIRT. MIRT's job is to check out new joins. It's true that we can only ban those who are under 100 posts, but we can always take a look and pass the information on to the admins.