I've always defended her climate activism, because she seemed committed to bringing much needed attention to this crucial issue that affects us all.

Now she's lost the moral high ground and I don't give AF any more. She's just another "student protester" who lacks the focus to advocate effectively on climate change.

Reminds me of how Occupy Wall St. fell apart because the protesters had zero plan and zero focus. They couldn't even decide why they were there.

don't you think those lives have worth? The act of protesting doesn't mean she supports Hamas. I know people here like to assume that, but they do so 1) because some protestors do support Hamas and 2) they seek to delegitimize the protests overall.

The article provides no information about her specific political beliefs, but you rush to condemn her.

But does she protest about them? About the jubilations in the streets when hostages were first brought in? About the cold blooded murder recently of six hostages?

Protesting against Israel and NOT protesting against Hamas is giving support to Hamas. Not to mention antisemetic AF.

I see justified and appropriate abject horror at the death of hostages and other Israelis, but when Palestinians die, I see accusations of antisemitism toward those who show any concern. There isn't close to parity.

. . . it's the accusation posting. That is, those who blame Israel first, ignoring or forgetting why the war started and who started it. Ignoring that at any single minute, Gaza/Hamas could end the war by releasing the hostages and laying down their arms. Ignoring that no one is talking about a peace agreement, just cease fire agreements that would essentially have Hamas as succeeding in their nefarious plans.

but it would not result in ceasefire because Netanyahu does not want to end the war, which is clear to anyone paying attention to the negotiations.

What aspect of the negotiations are you speaking of, exactly?

they had a framework Hamas agreed to in July, but since then Netanyahu added the condition that IDF troops remain in the Philadelphi corridor--this despite ongoing advice from his security experts that it is not necessary for Israel's security. Such experts have recently proposed leaving the corridor to secure the return of the hostages and a ceasefire and then returning only if necessary. Netanyahu has rejected that. He told his cabinet that he prioritizes the corridor over the return of the hostages. Why do you suppose Israelis are pouring out into the streets in protest? While they know full well that Hamas executed those six hostages, they blame Netanyahu for refusing to negotiate in good faith.

Now, this is not to say that Hamas is an honest broker in the process, but currently, Netanyahu is the roadblock. Biden has openly expressed frustration with him over this very issue.

. . . without Israel there, how can the border be secured? Will Egypt do it? The same Egypt that allowed for the transport of all of the weaponry Hamas has and used for Oct 7? Has anyone else volunteered to police the border?

And, it is nearly certain that the moment that the border is no longer secure, sinwar will cross and go to Iran, possibly taking the hostages there as well, forever out of the possibility of rescue.

And who will guarantee that when the Philadelphi corridor is no longer secured, Iran will not immediately start transporting munitions and weaponry to Hamas, allowing for further and perhaps worse attacks on Israel?

These are real-world issues that I have heard no answers to.

than you or I. Additionally, for some reason, it wasn't a concern of Netanyahu's before July. That also coincides with his meeting with Trump.

No one here who doesn't study Israel has any idea of what the political machinations going on there are. Hell, people who live there hardly know.

I do not see any lack of logic in what I said though.

and the security experts' analysis does not comport with yours. I take it you are a full-hearted supporter of Netanyahu?

That Israel should have stopped after exactly the same number of Hamas were killed as they killed on Oct 7?

Last edited Thu Sep 5, 2024, 06:09 PM - Edit history (1)

You can see it in this very thread in terms of the reactions to Thunberg. If anyone expresses any concern for Palestinian lives there are two responses 1) they must be Hamas supporters and therefore antisemitic, or 2) they don't care about Israeli lives. I myself care about human life period. I don't consider a life more valuable if the person is Israeli or Palestinian, Jewish, Muslim, or Christian. My heart goes out to the families of the hostages slain by Hamas and the tragic victims of the Oct 7 attacks, and it equally mourns for the civilians (but not Hamas militants) killed by IDF assaults on Gaza. That makes me an anathema around here and subject to contempt.

In terms of Thunberg, she is immediately hated because she is protesting as part of a free Palestine movement. With no evidence, they assume she is pro-Hamas, something repeated daily toward any and all protestors, whether true or not. It makes them feel better about expressing contempt toward everyone who cares about the plight of Palestinian civilians.

This sort of thing emboldens Hamas...you know six hostages including the woman at the Democratic convention's son were just murdered by Hamas right? I do not support any of these protests.

Please provide evidence for that outrageous statement.

. . . that on the Palastinian side, they don't think that Israeli lives are worth anything. In fact, they have promised to continue attacking until their genocide of all Jews is complete. But somehow that is OK?

Not Palestinian civilians. It’s important not to conflate them.

... I wonder about that. What percentage of Gaza is alligned with Hamas and approves or even celebrates their murdering.

but considering they are subject to daily bombings by the IDF, they aren't exactly going to be friendly toward Israel. Why should they be?

at their own homes- mistreated them too...and refused to recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas began this by murdering innocent people and this protest was scheduled for the anniversary of this atrocious act. It is just an excuse to bash Jews...anti-semitism rears its ugly head.

but that is not the only reason to protest. Human life--and the death of 40,000 souls (most of them civilians with no ties to Hamas)--motivates some to care. Not all consider those deaths inconsequential.

(this protest was about an academic boycott of Israeli universities, which are seen as part of the Israeli state). Whataboutsudan doesn't apply.

Amnesty International has some information on who supplies arms to Sudan, in spite of an embargo. The US is not among them.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/sudan-constant-flow-of-arms-fuelling-relentless-civilian-suffering-in-conflict-new-investigation/

Regarding the recent death toll:

I think it's a function of what's covered in the news media.

... That most had or have no ties to hamas? Being sympathetic with their murderous cause I would consider 'ties"

You're the one making the assertion. I have the reasonable assumption that human beings are not all identical in their thoughts and motivations. I would assume people who carry Hamas flags share Hamas' goals, but all demonstrators do not carry Hamas flags. I would be very surprised if Greta did. I understand that it serves your purposes to charge ALL demonstrators with being aligned with Hamas because it enables you to delegitimize them and their entire cause. That, however, is a defensive reaction on your part.

There are legitimate reasons to care about human life and the deaths of 40,000 human souls. How can you find that so difficult to comprehend? Additionally, the protests are wrapped up in the entire Palestinian cause and the Apartheid system under which Palestinians live. Now I understand the origins of that lies in wars against Israel and Israel's desire to be free of attack, but it is nonetheless a horrible living situation, particularly in the West Bank. You will disagree with that, but then I imagine I couldn't pay you enough money to live under those conditions yourself.

Let me guess, that number can't be known because we can't trust the IDF numbers but we certainly trust the Hamas numbers right? LOL

I think it quite likely at least some posters are motivated by things like this. https://www.cbs.com/shows/video/G5gIg_iwm8ZuPSjg9uqYjBizZ_NsgDdN/

Good luck anyway!

My "ignore" button has been getting a workout.

Thanks!

something always sneaks through

I have always liked her.

Her moment is over